Standard SnG Comp - FAO Sky Staff

Lambert180

**Sky - Can we please have the standard SnG Structure amended as per BorinLoner's post below**

Hi All,

There was something mentioned here a while ago about trying to get more action going on the regular SnGs because they never seem to run but ntohing more seems to have been done about it.

I've been doing the DYM laddering thing on here and there are 200+ people registered on the thread to take part which is probably already 10 times the player base who ever even consider regging for a standard SnG

So I'm thinking abuot putting together some kinda competition for standard SnGs to get people playing them. IMO they're a lot more fun than DYMs and teach some skills which are missing from DYMs like going for the win.

I'll need to speak to Sky to see if we can get some prizes but I'm sure they'd be happy if it can get some games going for a format that practically never runs, so first I'm just trying to see if there is interest in this and whether people would start giving them a go if

1) There was a comp

2) The games actually filled up when you regged.

Post up if you have any ideas or what kinda BI range you'd play if they did run.

jdsallstar

when i first joined sky this was the type of tournament i wanted to play but there was none. I assume your talking about a 10 seat sng with top 3 paying by the way. I ended up playing bounty hunters and turbos which i really didnt enjoy. I Nearly left the site at this point but ended up becoming a dym junkie.

Defnitely i think normal sng's would attract new players. I'm sure i would give them a go but hard to see me moving off the dym's permanently.

Lambert180

Yeah either 10 seaters paying top 3 or 6 seaters paying top 2.

And yeah I've heard that story before lol, so many people become DYM junkies on here cos no other SnGs run.

So much more fun imo and much better money up top.

VespaPX

I'm in :-)

liamboi11

I used to love playin 10 seater sng`s on other site and every friday night me and a bunch of poker mates have our weekly home game.

we play 10 seater deepstack and we have a points and league system over 10 weeks/4 leagues over the year every week we pay £6 every week for the league prizes and we normally play £10 stake for the game that night and also we do a main event for £50 buyin and we also leave £150 for player with the most league points over the year(basically player of year) I won it last year brag lol.

but its all good fun so maybe a league system be good idea if we get the right amount of players interested and commited to it.

BorinLoner

The blind structure still needs addressing before I'd consider playing any decent volume of SNG's on Sky. I'd prefer they increased the clock to ten minute levels but they absolutely must add in a few levels beyond the 50/100 level. The early level jumps are a bit too small too, in my opinion.

1: 10/20
2: 25/50
3: 40/80
4: 50/100
    75/150
5: 100/200
    150/300
6: 200/400
    250/500
7: 300/600
8: 400/800
9: 500/1000

10 Minute Clock

As it is, they turn into a crapshoot far too early. If Sky wants decent numbers playing in these, they have to compete with the structures available on the other sites.

Lambert180

Very good idea Liam, only issue with that and the nature of a SnG is that Sky would need to create some password protected tables to avoid randoms joining. That's enough of a pain when I run the HU games, but playing a full 10 seater cos 1 oppo snook in would be urgh.

Also,  reckon the more the games fill up, the more random passersby will just see them and reg, then see they filled up quick and come back etc to get numbers up, so not sure if we should limit it to only forumites

Lambert180

In Response to Re: Standard SnG Comp:

The blind structure still needs addressing before I'd consider playing any decent volume of SNG's on Sky. I'd prefer they increased the clock to ten minute levels but they absolutely must add in a few levels beyond the 50/100 level. The early level jumps are a bit too small too, in my opinion. 1: 10/20 2: 25/50 3: 40/80 4: 50/100     75/150 5: 100/200     150/300 6: 200/400     250/500 7: 300/600 8: 400/800 9: 500/1000 10 Minute Clock As it is, they turn into a crapshoot far too early. If Sky wants decent numbers playing in these, they have to compete with the structures available on the other sites.
Posted by BorinLoner

Yeah I thought this might come up and I completely agree.

I'm hoping that if we bring in this new 'thing' then Sky will be persuaded to fix the structures if only as a tester to see how it goes. If there are X number of players that say I will play them IF you fix the structure, I can't see why they wouldn't, it's not like the games are running well atm.

rancid

I am sure like a lot of others I loved standard SNG's , it's where I started.

If they improved the structures to what has been said above by BL then I would play em -

Lambert180

Yeah it's where I started out properly too.

TINTIN

i would play sng more often but as been said before they need to resort to a playable structure.

5 year ago it was simple. 1 structure (10/20 15/30 25/50 75/150 100/200 150/300 200/400 300/600 400/800) and a choice of 2 lengths of blinds standard=10 mins speed=5mins. starting stack was 1500

i was happy to play them like that then and i would be more than happy to play them with this structure again. the only thing that put me off a little back then was the top heavy payout but thats been changed to imo a better 65/35.

i would love to know if anything came out of Scotty77 thread on the state of sng.

yeah i would be interested in a comp, anything that could boost numbers.

ACEGOONER

In Response to Re: Standard SnG Comp:

The blind structure still needs addressing before I'd consider playing any decent volume of SNG's on Sky. I'd prefer they increased the clock to ten minute levels but they absolutely must add in a few levels beyond the 50/100 level. The early level jumps are a bit too small too, in my opinion. 1: 10/20 2: 25/50 3: 40/80 4: 50/100     75/150 5: 100/200     150/300 6: 200/400     250/500 7: 300/600 8: 400/800 9: 500/1000 10 Minute Clock As it is, they turn into a crapshoot far too early. If Sky wants decent numbers playing in these, they have to compete with the structures available on the other sites.
Posted by BorinLoner

10 minute clock are you for real! The most popular sngs be it 6 max 9 max or 10max on larger sites are those with 5 min blinds. Sky is soo far off the mark on sngs and mtt's that its past its peak numbers acheived last year. That combined with cash promo's played by nitty regs is flushing this site of fish.

I dont want to wait half an hour for a sky sng table to fill then play for an hour ! Thats what it will be like at £11 upwards. Hardly a recipe for success. I can sit on a $3 rebuy 180 man sng on stars and it fills up within 5 mins. That tells me that the larger poker community likes rebuys. On sky between 5 and 10pm you have 3 rebuy mtts. The £11 rebuys are a start, but there needs to be more between £2.20 and £5.50, trust me they will catch on if sky are prepared to take a risk. IMO bounty hunters popularity is starting to wane. n

BorinLoner

The thread is about standard sit and go's, not rebuys or turbos. If you want to play turbos and rebuys, that's fine. Here we're talking about how to improve numbers in standard SNG's, not how to turn them into turbos.

I would definitely approve of introducing or re-introducing turbo SNG's, though. Same blind levels with a faster clock.

shakinaces

Would definitely consider heading back to the world of SNGs if something came up to tickle my fancy...

Would prefer 10-max to 6-max personally, not sure why Sky don't offer this (or indeed cash 10-max, but that's another thread)

Would probably enter 'steps' SNGs, the ones where (assuming 10-max) top 2 get a free entry to next BI level, 3rd & 4th get a free retry at the current level, at some of the higher levels 5th/6th get a free entry to the next level down, other players lose their fee... I guess this is similar in some ways to the DYM challenge (which I'm sure I ought to try one day!) but gives a more structured approach will all Sky players can be involved in, not just forum users.  It's always nice as a small stake player to think there is a shot at turning a small fee into, say, £1k if I can luckbox my way up all levels and cash in the highest level SNG - and for the more skilled players, they can buy in direct to the top level and know they have a massive edge against players who have fluked their way to that level.

Agree with Borin re: the levels involved, would be nice to have the choice of normal/speed/turbo clocks within that, but appreciate too much choice may be a bad thing while building liquidity and it probably makes sense to just have speed clock to start (not too slow for the action junkies, not too fast to make it a crapshoot for those of us that like a bit of play).

Games gotta fill up quickly, that's what put me off the Omaha DYM challenge... I get bored waiting 15+ mins to get a game started, start other games then don't want to leave the other games, so have too many tables open (= lag and, = progressively poor play!)

Would also like to see the shootout format come into the game, although appreciate even on a site with larger player pool this isn't the fastest filling type of tournament. Used to love playing them myself though, knowing that if you cash round 1 you are freerolling the next 3 rounds (if you keep progressing). Not far removed from bounty hunters I guess, so maybe they will be a popular addition here? May be a template to get people into playing SNGs?

Not sure how a cash champ type comp would work if Sky went down that route, but am sure I'd play a low-level band non-stop for a few weeks if there was a chance of winning a few extra quid.

Sorry for the ramble... in short... bring in 10-max... run £1 to £1000 (or equivalent) steps... bring in SNG shootouts... I'll play lots of SNGs and hopefully others will too

beaneh

In Response to Re: Standard SnG Comp - FAO Sky Staff:

The thread is about standard sit and go's, not rebuys or turbos. If you want to play turbos and rebuys, that's fine. Here we're talking about how to improve numbers in standard SNG's, not how to turn them into turbos. I would definitely approve of introducing or re-introducing turbo SNG's, though. Same blind levels with a faster clock.
Posted by BorinLoner

different formats and their relative levels of love from the community is important, no use fixing the super slow never blind increase tournies, if no one wants them or they all want super hyper allin first hands etc

no point discussing how best to improve slow sngs if sky needs to focus on what sngs it offers, and to tweak ALL of the schedules and format settings.

in general given the no antes, the blinds are always too long on sky.

as can be seen in the roller, blinds are too long, with no jumps in the blinds early and lots of jumps later, by keeping adding more early levels and removing some of the more massaging levels later on. which is completely the wrong way to go.

need to consider who is actually doing the setting up, ie random employees new to poker or people who play poker regularly....

BorinLoner

I completely agree with you beaneh. As it is there are too many small blind levels and too few larger ones. Sticking to the SNG's for the moment; in the later stages you go from having the average stack at, say, 15BB to an average of 7BB from one hand to the next. That's stupid in my opinion. Having tiny blind jumps in the early stages only exaggerates the problem.

As for giving the people the type of tournaments they want, again I agree. However if we're talking about the standard SNG's, they need changing. Whether there's a forum competition, promotion or nothing at all, if people are ever to play these in significant numbers the structures need to be improved because at the moment they play so much worse than the same games on Stars. That's true of both 6-max and 9/10 handed tables.

I agree also with shakinaces that there's no reason to play SNG's if they're going to take an eternity to fill. It's a big problem Sky has that you can load up Stars and be playing inside two minutes, though. It's always going to be tricky for Sky to draw players away from Stars to play these. Maybe that's why Sky don't put any effort into this at all - They've given up the ghost.

beaneh

In Response to Re: Standard SnG Comp - FAO Sky Staff:

I completely agree with you beaneh. As it is there are too many small blind levels and too few larger ones. Sticking to the SNG's for the moment; in the later stages you go from having the average stack at, say, 15BB to an average of 7BB from one hand to the next. That's stupid in my opinion. Having tiny blind jumps in the early stages only exaggerates the problem. As for giving the people the type of tournaments they want, again I agree. However if we're talking about the standard SNG's, they need changing. Whether there's a forum competition, promotion or nothing at all, if people are ever to play these in significant numbers the structures need to be improved because at the moment they play so much worse than the same games on Stars. That's true of both 6-max and 9/10 handed tables. I agree also with shakinaces that there's no reason to play SNG's if they're going to take an eternity to fill. It's a big problem Sky has that you can load up Stars and be playing inside two minutes, though. It's always going to be tricky for Sky to draw players away from Stars to play these. Maybe that's why Sky don't put any effort into this at all - They've given up the ghost.
Posted by BorinLoner

There was also the problem of the many types of similar but slightly different sng formats, with 2/3/4/5/7/10 minute blinds etc all with different silly names and quirks. 

full scale changes need to be made. but i've mentioned this many times over the years, doesn't seem like change will ever likely be forthcoming, and especially not by interacting with the player pool for input.

wynne1938

In Response to Re: Standard SnG Comp - FAO Sky Staff:

Would definitely consider heading back to the world of SNGs if something came up to tickle my fancy... Would prefer 10-max to 6-max personally, not sure why Sky don't offer this (or indeed cash 10-max, but that's another thread) Would probably enter 'steps' SNGs, the ones where (assuming 10-max) top 2 get a free entry to next BI level, 3rd & 4th get a free retry at the current level, at some of the higher levels 5th/6th get a free entry to the next level down, other players lose their fee... I guess this is similar in some ways to the DYM challenge (which I'm sure I ought to try one day!) but gives a more structured approach will all Sky players can be involved in, not just forum users.  It's always nice as a small stake player to think there is a shot at turning a small fee into, say, £1k if I can luckbox my way up all levels and cash in the highest level SNG - and for the more skilled players, they can buy in direct to the top level and know they have a massive edge against players who have fluked their way to that level. Agree with Borin re: the levels involved, would be nice to have the choice of normal/speed/turbo clocks within that, but appreciate too much choice may be a bad thing while building liquidity and it probably makes sense to just have speed clock to start (not too slow for the action junkies, not too fast to make it a crapshoot for those of us that like a bit of play). Games gotta fill up quickly, that's what put me off the Omaha DYM challenge... I get bored waiting 15+ mins to get a game started, start other games then don't want to leave the other games, so have too many tables open (= lag and, = progressively poor play!) Would also like to see the shootout format come into the game, although appreciate even on a site with larger player pool this isn't the fastest filling type of tournament. Used to love playing them myself though, knowing that if you cash round 1 you are freerolling the next 3 rounds (if you keep progressing). Not far removed from bounty hunters I guess, so maybe they will be a popular addition here? May be a template to get people into playing SNGs? Not sure how a cash champ type comp would work if Sky went down that route, but am sure I'd play a low-level band non-stop for a few weeks if there was a chance of winning a few extra quid. Sorry for the ramble... in short... bring in 10-max... run £1 to £1000 (or equivalent) steps... bring in SNG shootouts... I'll play lots of SNGs and hopefully others will too
Posted by shakinaces

+1

goldnballz

Agree with BorinLoner. Played a 10 seater SnG yesterday & the blinds go up ridiculously quickly after 3 or 4 levels. It just becomes a shove-fest.

I won't be playing anymore of these until things are changed.

Lambert180

Thanks everyone for the feedback, some great input so far.

I do have a few ideas in my head of potential things to encourage action in these games but it's clear people aren't going to play them without a more reasonable structure. Most of us play purely for fun and not for money but most of us don't find it much fun when the rake/poor structure leave a game having no edge.

So my first step is to try to get the structures amended (wish me luck!) even if it's only on a trial basis at first. I'm thinking basically BL's blind structure with a 5 min blind (turbo) and a 10 min blind (regular) but for the time being and to try to maximise liquidity in the games probably best to just start with 1 type.

I'll keep you posted.

DOHHHHHHH

Just. Copy. *****'s!

I'm sure they don't hold any sort of rights to the blind structure they use. 

Reg speed.

Turbo.

Hyper Turbo. 

No need for velocities, scarys, lightenings, blizzards, Hurricanes, Superchargeds, Blitzs, express', fearless' or tornados!