Just. Copy. *****'s! I'm sure they don't hold any sort of rights to the blind structure they use. Reg speed. Turbo. Hyper Turbo. No need for velocities, scarys, lightenings, blizzards, Hurricanes, Superchargeds, Blitzs, express', fearless' or tornados! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
Too true... too much choice isn't as great as some people may think!
Good luck with talking them into changes Lambert. Can't imagine SNGs are a (very) profitable part of Sky's poker world given the lack of tables running, so they don't really have much to lose by going for change...
The blind structure still needs addressing before I'd consider playing any decent volume of SNG's on Sky. I'd prefer they increased the clock to ten minute levels but they absolutely must add in a few levels beyond the 50/100 level. The early level jumps are a bit too small too, in my opinion. 1: 10/20 2: 25/50 3: 40/80 4: 50/100 75/150 5: 100/200 150/300 6: 200/400 250/500 7: 300/600 8: 400/800 9: 500/1000 10 Minute Clock As it is, they turn into a crapshoot far too early. If Sky wants decent numbers playing in these, they have to compete with the structures available on the other sites. Posted by BorinLoner
Folks
Firstly, I hope Lambert doesn't mind this sidetrack slightly, I for one would love to support a SnG Community Comp, but it does seem there's some discussion around blind structures and SnG types on offer.
In terms of the varierty, we have been trialling quite a lot of new variations lately for a couple of reasons. Some have worked, others have not. I take the point raised about too many types but I think we'd always try to be innovative and get that wrong than be accused of being stagnant.
On to the discussion about blinds...
How would this blind structure work for you? 10 minute blind levels are unlikely to be honest given that most of our players seem to prefer something around the 5 minute mark.
15/30
25/50
40/80
50/100
75/150
100/200
150/300
200/400
300/600
400/800
500/1000
600/1200
800/1600
1000/2000
1500/3000
In terms of the blind level timings offered, I'd also like your opinions on if we were to offer the following:
Regular - 7 min blinds
Fast - 5 min blinds
Turbo - 3 min blinds
Hypers - 1 min blinds
Keep it polite otherwise the YTS kids Beaneh obviously thinks we employ for this sort of thing will get upset and cry.
I think the new levels look good. I agree that 10 mins is probably longer than the majority of people want (me included), I think the 4 levels of speed sound good. My only concern is that I'm not sure we need all 4 different levels, 3 min blinds is pretty Hyper (and is the blind speed of a HU Hyper), but if you put in place the above it's MILES better than what we have now.
If we could get these SnGs in place Dave, I'm happy to take the lead with some community SnG comp unless you already have an idea in mind?
The blind clock is the least important element of the changes I'd like to see. If the clock remains at seven minutes instead of ten for the regular speed SNG's, it's not a disaster since the majority are likely to be 6-max anyway. I would think that it would be pointless having four speed options, though. I'd say if you have those with a seven minute clock and a three minute clock, that would provide sufficient variety.
Anyone wanting to play a one minute clock would probably just prefer to play roulette on Sky Vegas.
As I say, I'd prefer ten minutes as the regular speed and five minutes as the turbo. It works for the site with enormous SNG traffic so, as others have said, why not just copy them?
Either way, I certainly think having four different levels would be excessive. The traffic isn't there to support that, in my opinion.
Just to clarify, I am merely pitching these figures at the moment - I can't guarantee I'll make them happen!
As for the 1 min vs 3 min options, you'd be amazed at how many people are playing those 1 minute variations - that's why I want to gun for 4 time gradients (7/5/3/1) rather than 3 (which would most likely end up 7/5/2 to cater for the 1 minute folks, etc).
The blind clock is the least important element of the changes I'd like to see. If the clock remains at seven minutes instead of ten for the regular speed SNG's, it's not a disaster since the majority are likely to be 6-max anyway. I would think that it would be pointless having four speed options, though. I'd say if you have those with a seven minute clock and a three minute clock, that would provide sufficient variety. Anyone wanting to play a one minute clock would probably just prefer to play roulette on Sky Vegas. As I say, I'd prefer ten minutes as the regular speed and five minutes as the turbo. It works for the site with enormous SNG traffic so, as others have said, why not just copy them? Either way, I certainly think having four different levels would be excessive. The traffic isn't there to support that, in my opinion. Posted by BorinLoner
Respectfully have to disagree with you on this one Borin. The large site you refer to is a very different proposition and has a different customer profile to us. We have done some research with our customers on this and the 1 minute options are incredibly popular.
I think 10 minute blinds would be too slow for the bulk of our customers (I know you are not alone on disagreeing here, but I am trying to take as wide a view as possible), so I think 7 mins is the timing we'd offer at that end.
The trick in my personal opinion is not too have too many options within each of the gradients: so 1 type of 7 min SnG, a couple of variations on 5 and 3 mins and 1 type of 1 min. That means there's around 6 types of regular SnG on offer. We are excluding DYMs and All-Ins from this as both of them do very well on their own - this view is just on 'traditional' sit and gos.
More than happy to discuss this further, so long as it remains constructive
If I were to play a sit and go today, I would play on Stars. The reasons for that are i) the already mentioned blind structure issues and ii) the time it takes for a game to start on Sky. On Stars, you can be playing a SNG in two or three minutes while on Sky it can take twenty or thirty minutes, if one gets going at all.
Obviously Sky is not suddenly going to gain Stars' traffic. However the problem with having three or four different speeds is that the player pool is split. You end up with two people waiting for a 1 minute SNG, another guy waiting for a 3 minute, and three guys waiting for a seven minute. The guys waiting for the 7 minute game don't want to play the 1 minute variant, just because they can get it started and the 1-minute guys don't want to play the 7-minute game.
Eventually everyone gives up and they don't come back because they know that games don't start on Sky.
I've played thousands of SNG's on Stars but I would prefer to play here. I can't because the only options are variants that don't appeal to me and the variants that do appeall to me have seen their traffic split between so many blind speeds that they get started only every twenty minutes.
With two blind speeds, the guys that want to play really fast can play something that's quite fast. The guys that want to play something slow can play something that's quite slow. Traffic is bottlenecked into two options and SNG's start every ten minutes instead of every twenty.
The whole point of sit and go's is that they start quickly. That's what needs to improve and I don't think offering more options will achieve that.
I see your point, Borin. Also understand what you're saying about spreading the player pool too thin. I don't think it would be too bad across 4 time limits, but this might all be hypothetical anyway. I'll definitely be asking the question of the decision makers though as I think there's been some good points raised here.
the relative difference between 1-2 minutes and 5-10 minutes should be obvious, don't make me mention the A word!
ever considered SNG's with min players to start and a 1-2 level late reg, so sngs start pretty quickly when the threshold is met, but the prizepool can keep building for the first level?
Quick bit of extra feedback for Dave, as you asked - as a purely rec player with limited time to play I would love to see a 'standard' and a 'turbo' option with levels just like you posted above. I'm getting a bit bored with DYMs and I would play this type of SnG as excellent practice for bigger MTTs, particularly if there's plenty of low-stakes games. So overall I would probably play more, which is what Sky wants I presume. Bring it on :-)
Would also be nice to see some 18 man SNG's ,which last about 3 hours. Posted by rancid
I hope (am 99% sure) that is a joke Rancid lol.
I'd love some 18 man SnGs, maybe some bigger ones too. Possibly highlight them in the SnG lobby @ the top regardless of search options (at first) same as MEs in the MTT lobby so everyone is aware and I'm sure they'd fill up, but I wouldn't like a 18 man SnG to last more than about 90 mins.
In Response to Re: Standard SnG Comp - FAO Sky Staff : I hope (am 99% sure) that is a joke Rancid lol. I'd love some 18 man SnGs, maybe some bigger ones too. Possibly highlight them in the SnG lobby @ the top regardless of search options (at first) same as MEs in the MTT lobby so everyone is aware and I'm sure they'd fill up, but I wouldn't like a 18 man SnG to last more than about 90 mins. Posted by Lambert180
I'd stick 18 man sng's in the MTT section. They'd fill up much quicker.
In Response to Re: Standard SnG Comp - FAO Sky Staff : I hope (am 99% sure) that is a joke Rancid lol. I'd love some 18 man SnGs, maybe some bigger ones too. Possibly highlight them in the SnG lobby @ the top regardless of search options (at first) same as MEs in the MTT lobby so everyone is aware and I'm sure they'd fill up, but I wouldn't like a 18 man SnG to last more than about 90 mins. Posted by Lambert180
Thanks for the bump, Lambert. We are actually doing some work on this today hopefully so I'll come back with some news for you later today. Posted by Sky_Dave
Comments
O looks that works they have 50 million players online - lets copy that !
It's broke, fix it !
Good luck with talking them into changes Lambert. Can't imagine SNGs are a (very) profitable part of Sky's poker world given the lack of tables running, so they don't really have much to lose by going for change...
Cheers for getting back to us/me so quick Dave.
I think the new levels look good. I agree that 10 mins is probably longer than the majority of people want (me included), I think the 4 levels of speed sound good. My only concern is that I'm not sure we need all 4 different levels, 3 min blinds is pretty Hyper (and is the blind speed of a HU Hyper), but if you put in place the above it's MILES better than what we have now.
If we could get these SnGs in place Dave, I'm happy to take the lead with some community SnG comp unless you already have an idea in mind?
Paul
Anyone wanting to play a one minute clock would probably just prefer to play roulette on Sky Vegas.
As I say, I'd prefer ten minutes as the regular speed and five minutes as the turbo. It works for the site with enormous SNG traffic so, as others have said, why not just copy them?
Either way, I certainly think having four different levels would be excessive. The traffic isn't there to support that, in my opinion.
If I were to play a sit and go today, I would play on Stars. The reasons for that are i) the already mentioned blind structure issues and ii) the time it takes for a game to start on Sky. On Stars, you can be playing a SNG in two or three minutes while on Sky it can take twenty or thirty minutes, if one gets going at all.
Obviously Sky is not suddenly going to gain Stars' traffic. However the problem with having three or four different speeds is that the player pool is split. You end up with two people waiting for a 1 minute SNG, another guy waiting for a 3 minute, and three guys waiting for a seven minute. The guys waiting for the 7 minute game don't want to play the 1 minute variant, just because they can get it started and the 1-minute guys don't want to play the 7-minute game.
Eventually everyone gives up and they don't come back because they know that games don't start on Sky.
I've played thousands of SNG's on Stars but I would prefer to play here. I can't because the only options are variants that don't appeal to me and the variants that do appeall to me have seen their traffic split between so many blind speeds that they get started only every twenty minutes.
With two blind speeds, the guys that want to play really fast can play something that's quite fast. The guys that want to play something slow can play something that's quite slow. Traffic is bottlenecked into two options and SNG's start every ten minutes instead of every twenty.
The whole point of sit and go's is that they start quickly. That's what needs to improve and I don't think offering more options will achieve that.
Let's not get forget about this. People want SnGs just not in their current format
I'd love some 18 man SnGs, maybe some bigger ones too. Possibly highlight them in the SnG lobby @ the top regardless of search options (at first) same as MEs in the MTT lobby so everyone is aware and I'm sure they'd fill up, but I wouldn't like a 18 man SnG to last more than about 90 mins.