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Folding Aces?

murray69murray69 Member Posts: 436
edited March 2013 in The Poker Clinic
Satelite to 10k bh tonight, blinds 500/1000, i have 13k, raiser has 17k, short stack has 1,800. The big stack was folding quite alot of hands so when he raised this big i presumed he would of called an all in. 1st and 2nd gained entry to tournement, and 3rd got some cash. Do i just fold and hope the shorty gets eliminated next few hands?

PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalancejenars Small blind  500.00 500.00 1840.00 murray69 Big blind  1000.00 1500.00 13900.00  Your hole cards A A    56pomp Raise  4000.00 5500.00 13760.00 jenars Fold     murray69
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Comments

  • 10NGY10NGY Member Posts: 108
    edited March 2013
    I can only assume he's trying to get the short stack all in... I'm shoving all day and I think he'd probably fold so not to risk his stack unless he has KK... And if he suckers you then yeh it's a nightmare but the short stack could make a couple double up and survive too and then you regret it?
  • ididit14ididit14 Member Posts: 86
    edited March 2013
    I think you call and then hope they don't get cracked. So easy for the short stack to double up a couple of times
  • BigHawk89BigHawk89 Member Posts: 627
    edited March 2013
    So there's 4 left and 3 get paid? Doubt the cash would be brilliant you want the seat to the tourney so I'd be shoving here going for the top two! Having the chip lead is these things is good as people will think twice about shoving light vs the only player who can take them out! Guessing you shoved and got a bad beat though!
  • 10NGY10NGY Member Posts: 108
    edited March 2013
    No i think there's 3 left and he's saying he wants the ticket.
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2013
    Horrible horrible spot imo.

    If we assume that we're virtually 100% to get a seat if we call and win (which we virtually are). If we call, we're gonna win aruond 80% of the time.

    Then the question becomes, if we fold, will we cash more than 80% of the time.... I don't know the answer, just saying lol.
  • loolololloloololollo Member Posts: 929
    edited March 2013
    would just shove and close my eyes
  • NColleyNColley Member Posts: 1,178
    edited March 2013
    Fold and don't tell anyone that you had AA

    I don't even think its close either
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited March 2013
    yeah I just fold
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited March 2013
    I agree with Ncolley. This isn't even close. We have 14BB behind and the short stack has 1.5BB. This is a really easy fold.

    No need to get in a willy swinging contest with the other big stack.
  • suzy666suzy666 Member Posts: 221
    edited March 2013
    use ICM from http://www.icmpoker.com/Calculator.aspx, i assume 2 players each get 50% of the prize pool, 3rd gets zero for the calculation

    your prize pool equity if you fold is 0.4518, the large stack is 0.4712 and the mini stack 0.07
    if you raise AI and he folds the ratios are essentially reversed, you now have 0.47 eq
    if he calls however your equity =(0.5 x 0.83 ish)=0.415, all the equity goes the tiny stack.

    The realility is the big stack has made a huge mistake by raising less than AI, and should fold to your AI even if he knew you had TT and he had AA (0.5 x 0.8)=0.4, whereas if he folds his Ev is 0.45.

    but this is low stakes and people play badly, the answer lies with your opinion of your villain-if hes a muppet fold, if hes good (rare) RR all in.

    as played, if mini stack calls, call, otherwise fold
  • skeg_pokerskeg_poker Member Posts: 175
    edited March 2013
    I could never fold aces pre flop in any situation, but that is just the way I am haha.

    Everyone is different though :P
  • The_Don90The_Don90 Member Posts: 9,814
    edited March 2013
    In Response to Re: Folding Aces?:
    I could never fold aces pre flop in any situation, but that is just the way I am haha. Everyone is different though :P
    Posted by skeg_poker
    Theres situations where folding aces pre is the correct thing to do. This is the bubble of a sat, with 4 players left, we're guarenteed a seat almost. 

    One of the few times i think folding aces pre is correct. 
  • murray69murray69 Member Posts: 436
    edited March 2013

    Thanks for the replies, it was a £7.20 direct to tonights £33 game. There was 3 of us left, i think 3rd got around £18 but i wanted the seat. Anyway i folded.

    Then next hand the shorty doubled up, and then shoved on me the hand after i think, i had 10 10 and called and he had 5 5. He flopped a set but i turned a flush and won, but if i would of lost that hand i would of been in 3rd place. So it made me think that maybe i should shove with the Aces, but at the time i folded them the fold seemed the correct play. Was just intersted to see what other people thought. Thanks :)

    P.S still dont know what ill do with them next time lol

  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited March 2013
    not even bubble for the seat, ignore the cash unless it's big cash and you have AA - the only hand you can shove in this spot
  • Lambert180Lambert180 Member Posts: 12,197
    edited March 2013
    My understanding is that it's the bubble for the seat and next out will get the cash.

    2 seats + cash and 3 players left.
  • clubhammerclubhammer Member Posts: 109
    edited March 2013
    The 3rd place gets £18 which is only £15 short of the buy in value for the seat so this must change that ICM calc quite a bit.
    Though I haven't a clue what the calc should be - would be interested to see if someone with more knowledge can factor that in.
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited March 2013
    In Response to Re: Folding Aces?:
    My understanding is that it's the bubble for the seat and next out will get the cash. 2 seats + cash and 3 players left.
    Posted by Lambert180
    true - sure it's a fold if sb folds

    if sb calls then just flat

    oppo behind should just check it down


    if oppo shoves behind then sigh fold and curse them if they lose
  • bbMikebbMike Member Posts: 3,717
    edited March 2013
    If the pre-flop aggressor knows what they're doing, they will almost certainly lay down anything that isn't also AA. They are putting pressure on the short stack and expecting you to fold anything that isn't AA. As Rancid says above, AA is the only hand you can shove with here.

    I personally go over the top then wince when they call with AA and make a flush!
  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,410
    edited March 2013
    I would tell him in the chatbox that I had AA and then shove! (actually not sure if that is aloud or not - we're only ones left in the pot so it should be ok but don't know!!) 

    There's a good chance with this raise that he probably has a hand like AK, making us even more of a favourite than 80/20. Any good player is never raising 4x the BB here so I'm not sure I'd be confident of him folding if I went all in (even though it would be the correct play on his part) Personally I'd do the shortie stack a favour, shove all in and cribble the big stack when he loses. 
  • percival09percival09 Member Posts: 3,804
    edited March 2013
    ivanovic - pretty sure that's not allowed. lol.
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