It's so hard to say Larson cos it massively depends on your table. Some times you have to be alot more selective, and pick your spots to play bigger pots with a narrower range because the table is very aggro, while sometimes you can pick up tons of small pots because everyone is playing too tight. The key thing is you want to be able to bully people on the bubble, and no matter how good you are you lose a lot of your ability to do that unless you've built a big stack ready for the bubble. If you aint got a great stack around the bubble, then depending on how the table is playing you may have to be a bit more cautious around the bubble, but your real aim is to get to the bubble with a big stack, then turn it into a massive stack by ripping it up on the bubble. Posted by Lambert180
Cheers Paul,
I'll go for that the next time I have a good stack around the bubble. i am really guilty of that playing a lot more cautious around the bubble.
P.S. I remember it was ages ago that I was chatting to Greg about MTTs and he was the one that stressed the importance of building a stack ready for bubble bullying time.
Didnt play any tournies today, next chance i'll get will prob be wed night. Just wondering, any advice on playing MTT's, I'm going to try and start playing tigher early doors expanding my range later on. I seem when i get a deep run in tournies and get in the money to fizzle out pretty fast. Probably from not playing aggressive enough in the run up to the bubble. I am going to try and get more value, but it's a hard call between what will get paid off and what wont. I've also learned to shove or fold the later stages, instead of limping in/ raising to not hit the flop. Any advice ? Posted by LARSON7
+1 to the advice already posted here, it's all about playing to win.
A high percentage of ITM finishes is far below optimal. Always remember; occasional first places bring in a much bigger profit than frequent min-cashes.
In MTTs you need to use your killer instinct. Be risk averse, you have to be prepared to make high variance plays that have the potential to set you up for victory, even on the bubble. Never allow your stack to get too short, get your chips in before it gets to that point, bubble or no bubble.
Picking up AA when you've already folded down to 5BB isn't much use, even if it holds-up 10BB still won't give you much chance of winning. You'd have been much better off flipping when you had 15BB. Because with 30BB you have so many more plays in your arsenal, you have stack that can do some real damage. Yes, the trade-off is that you'll bust-out with no return more often, but who cares if it brings in more of those precious first place finishes.
Below is the prize structure for this Sundays Primo as an example. Would you rather win it once out of 20 attempts (leaving with nothing other 19 times)? Or would you rather get yourself a 11th to 23rd place finish 10 times out of those 20?
I know the answer is obvious, yet you'll be surprised when it comes down to it how many players choose to fold their way to a guaranteed £110.50 prize rather than take a risk that offers a potential reward of £2968.03. Their nittyness is what the aggresive winning players thrive on.
failing that, because you going to bust the majority - don't be worried about getting your chips in where u "feel" versus oppo range your going to stand up ok
do or die
don't be afriad
big heart = win
but.........don't be silly...the bigger your stack the bigger equity edge you won't when the chips go across the line
most importantly - your going to have to flip well to win an MTT unless you run like god - don't beat yourself up when your constantly getting knocked out because as above you will the majority -
I was thinking after last weeks 2p-4p challenge it would be interesting to do one on MTTs. The challenge last week was quite popular with plenty of folk getting involved. This one is maybe a bit harder becasuse people will be playing at so many levels. If you look at my sharkscope graph it shows minus £300 or so, i'm looking to turn this around and get it going North. Looking at GaryQQQ's challenge, 1000 poker points into £1000, his sucesses at MTTs, and indeed the sucessess of other regular profitable MTT players has inspired me to try and significantly improve this side of my game. It was really interesting reading the commens on Thursdays shows thread with all the various different hints and tips. Over this week this thread will show my journey through various MTT tournies. It would be brilliant to get feedback and tips from regular winning MTT players. And also for anyone to post up any questions they think could help them improve their MTT game. My plan is to play 10 £2.20 Bountyhunters over the course of this week. I want to "cash" in at least four of these, and ideally final table on 2. It is a really tough ask, but i'm going to try and stay focussed to achieve this. Any help feedback would be really appreciated, and would be great to see other people joining in. Posted by LARSON7
Don,t think about min cashing. I normally enter a tournament hoping to get to the FT with a decent stack and then if it hapens - take it from there and try and win it , but its better to win 1 than min cash in 10 tournies. Its a simple tip but aim high and always go for the win EDIT _ Just read through some of the other posts and it sounds like i,m repeating much of what they said
I'm definatly going to start playing more aggressively to build a stack and take that momentum all the way. If i bust i bust, it'll be a bit of trial and errorr to start off with till i develop my own style as daggers said above.
Fundamentally, i have been playing tournies wrong, thinking get to cash then take it from there but by that point its often 2 late!
I need to totally go back to basics, and build it up.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed, somethings clicked with 4 or 5 of the posts above.
I don't mind the shove to win what's in the middle, I run into a monster.
Just wondering, did i have to many BB's for this play? And if i was sitting with say, 10-15bb i wouldnt have minded this play at all. Ive posted this up in the poker clinic too.
Aye Cheers Mate, you are right, i'm just trying to steal what's in the middle, if i was called just hoped i was flipping. I'm just trying different things, never before have i ever shoved 22s, just done it because i was on the button, and the blinds should never have a hand!
yeah 25BB i think is too much to be shoving any range. If there is an open i think we're borderline 3bet shoving stack. Actually one of the more awkward stacks to play imo.
Comments
I'll go for that the next time I have a good stack around the bubble. i am really guilty of that playing a lot more cautious around the bubble.
It's something ppl like you don't worry about Goody as you always go FTW!
A high percentage of ITM finishes is far below optimal. Always remember; occasional first places bring in a much bigger profit than frequent min-cashes.
In MTTs you need to use your killer instinct. Be risk averse, you have to be prepared to make high variance plays that have the potential to set you up for victory, even on the bubble. Never allow your stack to get too short, get your chips in before it gets to that point, bubble or no bubble.
Picking up AA when you've already folded down to 5BB isn't much use, even if it holds-up 10BB still won't give you much chance of winning. You'd have been much better off flipping when you had 15BB. Because with 30BB you have so many more plays in your arsenal, you have stack that can do some real damage. Yes, the trade-off is that you'll bust-out with no return more often, but who cares if it brings in more of those precious first place finishes.
Below is the prize structure for this Sundays Primo as an example. Would you rather win it once out of 20 attempts (leaving with nothing other 19 times)? Or would you rather get yourself a 11th to 23rd place finish 10 times out of those 20?
I know the answer is obvious, yet you'll be surprised when it comes down to it how many players choose to fold their way to a guaranteed £110.50 prize rather than take a risk that offers a potential reward of £2968.03. Their nittyness is what the aggresive winning players thrive on.
Good luck.
Still dont know the lingo after all this time....what a noddy !!
Thanks for teaching me something today, now for tomorrows lesson....
1. taking flips with your MTT life not at risk
2. To apply pressure and gather chips
3. To win the **** thing
failing that, because you going to bust the majority - don't be worried about getting your chips in where u "feel" versus oppo range your going to stand up ok
do or die
don't be afriad
big heart = win
but.........don't be silly...the bigger your stack the bigger equity edge you won't when the chips go across the line
most importantly - your going to have to flip well to win an MTT unless you run like god - don't beat yourself up when your constantly getting knocked out
good luck
Its a simple tip but aim high and always go for the win
EDIT _ Just read through some of the other posts and it sounds like i,m repeating much of what they said
Hi Larson
I think it is important to develop your own style.
There are times to play aggressively and more importantly times when not to.
Touraments have a flow, as do your cards, concentration is key it takes over three hours to win one or two bad decisions to go out.
If you keep making good decisions your results will improve.
Do not enter a tournament if you are tired or bored.
Keep simple records of your results.
wins, final tables, cash, nothing over a period of time it will tell you everything you need to know.
Good luck
Daggers
Thanks lads, some brilliant feedback.
I'm definatly going to start playing more aggressively to build a stack and take that momentum all the way. If i bust i bust, it'll be a bit of trial and errorr to start off with till i develop my own style as daggers said above.
Fundamentally, i have been playing tournies wrong, thinking get to cash then take it from there but by that point its often 2 late!
I need to totally go back to basics, and build it up.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed, somethings clicked with 4 or 5 of the posts above.
I don't mind the shove to win what's in the middle, I run into a monster.
Just wondering, did i have to many BB's for this play? And if i was sitting with say, 10-15bb i wouldnt have minded this play at all. Ive posted this up in the poker clinic too.