FWIW, I'm exactly like you in the sense that I'm only really interested in playing poker if I can make alot of money from it. That's why I've worked so hard on my game over the years because while I do enjoy the game loads, it's all about the £££. Grinding up a BR is a slow process unless you do it with bad BRM and run good which can negatively affect your attitude to the game and your bank balance if you keep having to reload.
In before anyone says it... I'm not making a lot of money yet lol, but I'm slowly getting there. I can remember years ago when being +£10 was a really good day, now being like +£100 is a good day but it's all relative.
A great way to improve is to get a group of poker mates (ideally people who are at least as good as you if not better) and just talk about it. Videos and stuff are great but I don't think anything beats discussing it with other poker players and thinking abuot WHY you should do certain things.
Also like Dohh suggested, I've had coaching from one of the best (imo) players on the site, I can PM you details if you want, it was very reasonably priced for the standard of coaching. Definitely something I'd recommend.
I havnt got a bad attitude or running bad or anyhing, I just look at the bigger picture and I don't think long term I can win, but while I'm young and not having to work 6 days a week and long hours I'm prepared to use my days tryin to improve and make money, because there's properly not going to be another point in my life where ill have this much time to focus on poker lol
Yeah but when u talk lambert u no what ur saying and are fully confident that ur answers are the correct ones u have good knowledge on the game, I just dont seem to have that. The coach thing ill definatly have a look at if u can pm the details , thanks Alot.
I ont have a bad attitude, wiht respect, you cannot judge that fairly as you dont know my past poker history. Theres been plenty of times i have thought im not going to be good enough, but i kept going. Thats because i was joining a training site or pm players for advice, i had a plan of action that woul turn me from losing to improving player. I have no plan, if i do the things i think ar correct i will lose today and tommorow and in the future.
Its nothing to do with attitude its about thinking of the situation in an intelligent way. Does me being determined and playing on and losing my moneymean i have a good attitude? imo no it doesnt, it just means your niaeve to think anything would change.
Iv had a long enough period playing to know my play is losing play, i watch enough poker and no enough to realise i do alot wrong in alot of situations.
I also do not want to play mtts, i dont find them interesting, i play them for abit of fun and for a change. My main game i want to be is cash, i enjoy trying to consistantly play well and theres my aim to play well to consiscently win and beat the same players, that proves alot imo .
I assume with a decent coach then it'll be up to you really. In my case, we tried out a few different things, sometimes we'd just go through HHs, sometimes I'd watch him 6table cash and he'd explain the decisions he was making and why (via Skype etc) but mostly it was me 6tabling and him watching me play (screen sharing so he can see my cards).
Obviously he did not provide any advice during hands but after a hand is finished he might say 'why did you not 3bet pre there?', then we can chat about that while I'm playing on.
He'd watch for say 1 hour of me 6tabling, he'd be noting down any tendancies or specific hand IDs, then spend the 2nd hour discussing the specific hands he'd noted down and anything general he'd picked up on... was I missing out on spots to isolate limpers, was I not double barrelling on turns that are great to barrel, was I double barrelling on terrible turn cards to barrel, or whatever other leaks he's picked up on.
I got that when I was playing 10NL and I'm intending to get a bit more now that I'm playing 30NL. If nothing else, I can pay for it just out of my C4P and I only see that as a bonus anyway so it's like I don't have to pay for the training really.
Can i personally pitch in and say i dislike the single coach idea.
I think its much more better to have a group of players, who discuss hands from eachothers sessions regular. I know a number of pro's have/or have been in groups with eachother. Infact one i played with live basically explained to me him and 6 or 7 other friends (who have since all turned pro) would have a weekly live game. After every hand the clock and action would stop and they would discuss the hand in detail. They would discuss literally every desision.
They where once all average joes like most recrecional players. This combined with hard work has helped them develop into winning professional players.
Im not saying try get into an exsisting group but even if you created your own with people who played the same level on skype or if you got together with some local players you know.
Well depending on the coach I don't think it's worst thing in the world, I guess it depends what you want/how high you wanna go.
But yeah, I agree that a group of poker mates is a great (and free!) way to do it and it forces you to provide more input yourself and actually think about situations rather than just being spoon-fed answers to situtions. I did say that above, I only mentioned the coaching cos JJ had, and then CalCal asked about it.
It's only been the last probably 6 months (give or take) that I've been really discussing things in a group and during this time I got coaching too. Before that any discussion was virtually 100% 1-to-1 with Dohhhh and I constantly say this but he brought my game on in leaps and bounds in pretty much every single format.
FWIW, still think 1-to-1 coaching from a sick player is very beneficial.
Personally, I think coaching, or chatting with some poker mates if you want the cheaper option is a great start to improving your cash game, but you have to take it seriously and really focus while doing it because you can't expect to have some sicko cash grinder to tell you all this stuff and you can just be talked at and it'll magically all sink in.
EDIT: However, you do obviously have mental game issues if you sitting down at cash tables and getting stacked twice is enough to make you feel terrible. It could be for a ton of reasons like bad BRM but if you can't sit down, lose 2 BIs and shrug it off, that needs sorting before you can play well imo.
One thing I meant to point out ages ago... imo, it's nigh on impossible that someone can beat 50NL on stars and not be able to beat 20NL on Sky, so either you were experiencing positive variance there and were never really a winning player @ 50NL OR you're currently experiencing negative variance here and aren't really a losing player @ 20NL.
after having another awful day , im ready to call it a day. I hate quitting at somthing i wanted alot but i think its the smart thing to do im fed up of thinking the wrong things, doing the wrong things and in general just being rubbish at poker. The thing is iv spent alot of time lately on my game and taking away a few good mtt results im as bad as i was before, so how would i ever improve? In the last month i finish 16th in ukops main event (£400), won 3k rebuy (£1200) and finished 16th in £33 bh (£112) all which i sat'd in for and im still not happy with my play because cash is what i want to be good at, and i love poker but i hate losing and being awful at somthing i tried so hard in. so its not even about money. I sat there today playing 20nl, trying my hardest to play the best i knew off , and lost 2 stacks , not including the $50 i lost on another site in the money. I sat that with a face like a slapped somthing and thought whats the point? this isnt enjoyable and prob for the first time i dont think i could become a winning player. Last thing ! i must say a massive thankyou to the people on sky poker who constantly commented on my hands and offered support through the chat or through a pm, i appreciated that alot so thanks for the time out your grinding to do that! i wish everyone else the best of luck at the tables ! Posted by robbie1992
My tournament play is a lot better than my cash play,yea we would all like to make money at cash so we could make money on our lap top on a beach far away,but if your ok at mtts and enjoy it try to forget about cash,it only takes a few days.
Comments
In before anyone says it... I'm not making a lot of money yet lol, but I'm slowly getting there. I can remember years ago when being +£10 was a really good day, now being like +£100 is a good day but it's all relative.
A great way to improve is to get a group of poker mates (ideally people who are at least as good as you if not better) and just talk about it. Videos and stuff are great but I don't think anything beats discussing it with other poker players and thinking abuot WHY you should do certain things.
Also like Dohh suggested, I've had coaching from one of the best (imo) players on the site, I can PM you details if you want, it was very reasonably priced for the standard of coaching. Definitely something I'd recommend.
What kind of format does that coaching take? I am very interested in getting some coaching to help with moving up.
IMO you do have a bad attitude because
1) You can profit at tourneys it seems
2) Have given up waaay too soon
3) Have other options open ie 4nl, where there is potential to win decent money
FYI
The phrase dont quit at the first hurdle would apply. But you have quit after falling over on the way to the starting blocks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLYECIjmnQs
I ont have a bad attitude, wiht respect, you cannot judge that fairly as you dont know my past poker history. Theres been plenty of times i have thought im not going to be good enough, but i kept going. Thats because i was joining a training site or pm players for advice, i had a plan of action that woul turn me from losing to improving player. I have no plan, if i do the things i think ar correct i will lose today and tommorow and in the future.
Its nothing to do with attitude its about thinking of the situation in an intelligent way. Does me being determined and playing on and losing my moneymean i have a good attitude? imo no it doesnt, it just means your niaeve to think anything would change.
Iv had a long enough period playing to know my play is losing play, i watch enough poker and no enough to realise i do alot wrong in alot of situations.
I also do not want to play mtts, i dont find them interesting, i play them for abit of fun and for a change. My main game i want to be is cash, i enjoy trying to consistantly play well and theres my aim to play well to consiscently win and beat the same players, that proves alot imo .
I assume with a decent coach then it'll be up to you really. In my case, we tried out a few different things, sometimes we'd just go through HHs, sometimes I'd watch him 6table cash and he'd explain the decisions he was making and why (via Skype etc) but mostly it was me 6tabling and him watching me play (screen sharing so he can see my cards).
Obviously he did not provide any advice during hands but after a hand is finished he might say 'why did you not 3bet pre there?', then we can chat about that while I'm playing on.
He'd watch for say 1 hour of me 6tabling, he'd be noting down any tendancies or specific hand IDs, then spend the 2nd hour discussing the specific hands he'd noted down and anything general he'd picked up on... was I missing out on spots to isolate limpers, was I not double barrelling on turns that are great to barrel, was I double barrelling on terrible turn cards to barrel, or whatever other leaks he's picked up on.
I got that when I was playing 10NL and I'm intending to get a bit more now that I'm playing 30NL. If nothing else, I can pay for it just out of my C4P and I only see that as a bonus anyway so it's like I don't have to pay for the training really.
But yeah, I agree that a group of poker mates is a great (and free!) way to do it and it forces you to provide more input yourself and actually think about situations rather than just being spoon-fed answers to situtions. I did say that above, I only mentioned the coaching cos JJ had, and then CalCal asked about it.
It's only been the last probably 6 months (give or take) that I've been really discussing things in a group and during this time I got coaching too. Before that any discussion was virtually 100% 1-to-1 with Dohhhh and I constantly say this but he brought my game on in leaps and bounds in pretty much every single format.
FWIW, still think 1-to-1 coaching from a sick player is very beneficial.
EDIT: However, you do obviously have mental game issues if you sitting down at cash tables and getting stacked twice is enough to make you feel terrible. It could be for a ton of reasons like bad BRM but if you can't sit down, lose 2 BIs and shrug it off, that needs sorting before you can play well imo.
One thing I meant to point out ages ago... imo, it's nigh on impossible that someone can beat 50NL on stars and not be able to beat 20NL on Sky, so either you were experiencing positive variance there and were never really a winning player @ 50NL OR you're currently experiencing negative variance here and aren't really a losing player @ 20NL.