What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?

percival09

I have a group of poker friends on Skype, and some of those are better than me and IMO I'm better than some. So then I thought why do I help worse players than myself? I know in some cases they are my friends, but that's not really the point. People all over the internet post legit advice for absolutely no cost so players can improve without putting too much effort in, and in turn that makes games harder and the overall standard of poker players improves.

So what is the EV of helping players? Surely it's negative? Why don't we just keep the games as soft as possible to ensure maximum EV for ourselves? OR do you think it's only fair to share your knowledge? 

I have my own thoughts on this and will post them after we've got a few opinions

Discuss

Slykllist

I think that discussing poker and listening to other peoples thoughts is always +EV, we're never too good to learn something new and sometimes just hearing the way someone else thinks about a situation regardless of our own perceived ability vs theirs helps us to better understand aspects of the game and think about things differently.

POKERTREV

In Response to What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?:

I have a group of poker friends on Skype, and some of those are better than me and IMO I'm better than some. So then I thought why do I help worse players than myself? I know in some cases they are my friends, but that's not really the point. People all over the internet post legit advice for absolutely no cost so players can improve without putting too much effort in, and in turn that makes games harder and the overall standard of poker players improves. So what is the EV of helping players? Surely it's negative? Why don't we just keep the games as soft as possible to ensure maximum EV for ourselves? OR do you think it's only fair to share your knowledge?  I have my own thoughts on this and will post them after we've got a few opinions Discuss
Posted by percival09

Hi Percival.
Most (If not All) Poker Players have differing styles, some good poker advice that works for one may not work for all.

There are certain things we can teach players regarding simple ABC Poker basics which will help them improve, however, there are so many individual styles and methods that not one size fits all.

If we could teach every player to play every hand the exactly the same way, regardless of circumstance then the game would be very predictable and boring imo, which is why poker is so fascinating.

There will never be a right or wrong way to play a hand. The only "right way" to play poker is to have a good understanding of the basics, after that it's really very much down to the individuality of players, cards dealt & table dynamics.

What works for one may not work for another, every player will always be unique, some stronger or weaker than others, but always unique.

Fascinating subject is the mindset of a poker player.

Smitalos

/> Never used a training site
/> Never read a poker book
/> Only talks strategy with 1 other poker player
    /> Not involved in any Skype strategy groups

(#coolstorybro)

So yeah, as y'all might've guessed, I don't believe in all this sharing information stuff. But that's just my view.

calcalfold

Psychologists would probably say to proove our self worth or something like that.

rancid

Improving at poker is more of a evolution of theory and pratice aswell as improvong on the mental side of the game.

If someone wants to improve then it will take a lot more than just recieving advice on how to play hands in a vacuum.

You can tell someone how to play nl4 and beat it for example, but it's doesn't mean they will implement it very well.
It also doesn't mean they would understand what they are doing and why.
Why do you raise to 20p ? "don't know Dohhhhhh said I should" )

Discussing poker is great and giving free advice is great, if someone wants to improve then they can only improve by studying hard and learning for themselfs.
Your not going to be good by just posting hands and going off the answers you get for example.
You then need to study the alternatives, understand them and more importanly understand why checking back the turn is so much better.

You never stop learning anyway )

percival09

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?:

/> Never used a training site /> Never read a poker book /> Only talks strategy with 1 other poker player     /> Not involved in any Skype strategy groups (#coolstorybro) So yeah, as y'all might've guessed, I don't believe in all this sharing information stuff. But that's just my view.
Posted by Smitalos

How did you know I was going to say that?

Keeeeeep them coming people

CraigSG1

I agree with the above two. I think its always beneficial to talk about poker, this is one game where you will never ever stop learning and even by talking about the basics can still help yourself even in a small way. 

Plus, not to mention the old adage about giving something back. When you where learning the game you would have been happy to get all this free advice so its only fair you do your own bit too.

One final point. By improving the overall standard, we are making it harder for ourselves and I think its easy to sit back and bemoan all this free advice everyone gets but instead use it as a positive to spur you on and improve your own game above everyone elses. 

Oh, and by 'you' I mean every poker player! Noy 'you' for asking the question. Great question by the way.

percival09

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?:

/> Never used a training site /> Never read a poker book /> Only talks strategy with 1 other poker player     /> Not involved in any Skype strategy groups (#coolstorybro) So yeah, as y'all might've guessed, I don't believe in all this sharing information stuff. But that's just my view.
Posted by Smitalos

Also pretty sure you've listened to a bit of baluga! #sayin

Smitalos

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?:

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free? : Also pretty sure you've listened to a bit of baluga! #sayin
Posted by percival09

Listened to him, yes. On a training site? No.

Mike Matasow wants a word with you buddy, something about...
The kiddy games being down the street?

#gg

est1967

I have been playing poker approx 3 years and have never had any help regarding web sites ,mags etc but i do watch a lot of poker on tv and have learnt certain things about the game by doing this.

When i first started posistion was a different language to me but now its a very important part of my game,Plus im a big fan of 4 betting in pos and check raising.

My online game is ok but i feel i need to concentrate more when playing at home with the tv on and the good lady moaning lol so if any advice on this would help me improve more lol.

CraigSG1

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?:

I have been playing poker approx 3 years and have never had any help regarding web sites ,mags etc but i do watch a lot of poker on tv and have learnt certain things about the game by doing this. When i first started posistion was a different language to me but now its a very important part of my game,Plus im a big fan of 4 betting in pos and check raising. My online game is ok but i feel i need to concentrate more when playing at home with the tv on and the good lady moaning lol so if any advice on this would help me improve more lol.
Posted by est1967

Yes - they needs to be a book or something as this is my biggest tilt problem!

The_Don90

I may be slightly biased. 

I think having different views from better and worse players can teach us something. 

I was watching the world championships of Pool on Sky Sports about 8 months ago, this pro (i cant mind his name) openly admitted to watching amatuers playing in pubs etc. Why because they might do a shot which can improve his game. They might not know they've done it or why its good, but the point is they done it. 

I think this also applies to poker. I think I'm one of the lesser players in the skype group im in. Not the worst - Percival09 is in it but i feel i still have something to offer the better players, even though that might be small. 

GELDY

takes a big ego to think the help we may give will have a major impact on our competition

and generally we give help to the next level - not the level we think we are at :-)

Machka

Being +EV in life.

Giant811

Talking poker is fun. People like fun.

Telling others what they did wrong makes you look smart. People like to look smart.

FCHD

Not everything we do has to be based on Expected Value.

Some people help others just because they're nice people.

percival09

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?:

Not everything we do has to be based on Expected Value. Some people help others just because they're nice people.
Posted by FCHD

It seems you're implying that I, or somebody in this thread, only does it to gain something? Lame post and adds little significance to the thread

Completely forgot about this tbh, I will post soon

percival09

Ok so IMO, purely based on the EV of the game, it's good to share information with other players because it's good to get more players TRYING to play the same game as you. It's good for the micro players that new players join the game, it's then good for the low limit cash players that the micro limit players eventually become good enough to play at low limits, but will then be a fish @ those limits, and so forth. It's almost like an evolutionary poker cycle that players become good enough to beat a certain level, but then they aren't good enough to beat the level above until they learn more and more - long process!

Other than that though, sharing information with other players is fun and helps yourself improve, as well as developing your poker theory! It's also important to keep the poker economy healthy and helping players improve certainly does that imo! 

You learn by sharing so overall I think it's +ev in just poker, but it's also fun and helps you develop your own game!

FCHD

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?:

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free? : It seems you're implying that I, or somebody in this thread, only does it to gain something? Lame post and adds little significance to the thread Completely forgot about this tbh, I will post soon
Posted by percival09

Sheesh, I'm not implying anything about any one else. it was a perfectly reasonable response to your first question

percival09

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free?:

In Response to Re: What is the EV of helping lesser poker players for free? : - Incorrect on both 'Liquidity EV' and 'EV for yourself at the tables'. Poker is a game of information. The more you have and the less your opponents have, the more money you should win at the tables. - Dafuq? O.o - 'Fun' doesn't fall within EV, argument invalid. - Debatable, with proof of many becoming elite who not discuss strat with others. More likely rephrased as "talking strategy with players of a roughly equal ability". - Increasing the overall player strength of the player pool does the exact opposite. Making players better, if anything, is harmful to the poker economy. - Fallacy - See Point 3
Posted by Smitalos

Ok as you know I have not slept.

You might have to wait until tomorrow for a semi-logical reply