some terrible advice in here from winning players that should no better, why is 3 bet shoving 56 bbs good??? someone please explain cos it has me beat!!! Posted by THEROCK573
hopefully rancid answered this - i had the same line of reasoning
hate the call - odds & all that
don't like the shove - but stack is slipping and could be a way to double back into it if they don't fold - often see them with AK or a foldable pair with that play
prefer the fold most of the time
re-raise with position - hadn't really considered it - oop a no-no but looking to outplay them post in position - it's an idea if one is good enough
I would never shove pre because a solid player has 5xed utg+1. I am also reluctant to fold fold because sets are so valuable and if we hit one we usually get the wonga!
I see what Rancid is saying about our stack size and relative stack sizes but, tbh, I am happy to peel pre because, at least one of the blinds and the original limper might come in. Then we have decent implied odds for hitting our set.
A fold pre is probably best but I think if we are comfortable at building our stack as the blinds increase (as we should be on sky because the tables are usually very soft), that the small price of 150 chips is worth paying, trying to flop a set! (if we miss our set, we can get that 150 back and moresome pretty quick by getting agro as the blinds increase)
So in general Fold > Call >>>>> Shove. But, personally, I don't mind call.
Shove is just not a good play... we are turning 77 into a bluff by shoving here! At least give ourselves a fighting chance and shove something that does not depend on hitting a two outer to win!
Not sure about raising to 400 and then folding to further action. (assuming we would fold lol) This is pretty weird and bad imo, but obv If i have a huge premium I would raise, and prob to ~400, but why would we turn 77 into a bluff vs a 5x utg+1 open from a nit??!!
Unlucky EST, but I don't think you did anything wrong!
Everyone seems to be assuming that the 150 must be a premium hand. If that's the case, I don't think we can call merely to set-mine. We can only win around 10x the amount we're being asked to call from the raiser (combined with the pot). If we always fold to a c-bet, we can't make a profit from this one player considering all the times they fail to pay us off with a missed AK or KK on an A-high board or the times we make a set and lose anyway.
Are we absolutely sure that this player is only raising a nitty range?
I don't think we should be assuming that other players are going to get involved. Even if other players do call to see a flop, their ranges aren't as strong as the raiser, meaning that if they get it in against us post-flop they're likely to have considerably more equity against our set than a simple overpair would. The implied odds aren't good to set-mine.
We can call pre-flop if we're not giving this raise credit for being a nitty range. Obviously if we can call a flop bet and reassess the turn against a relatively wide pre-flop range, we're not restricting ourselves to set-mining.
I'm in agreement with those not liking shoving... 56BB over a limp and a 5x. I don't think the rewards from the occasions that we get the shove through are going to come close to all the times we bust as a 20/80 dog.
Fold if the villain's a nit. Call if the villain's playing a wider range. 3-bet/fold if the villain's playing a super-wide range (unless they're 4-betting wide too, in which case I'd open-fold to avoid levelling with 77 or call to play in position). Never shove. Them's my thoughts and they'resoobviously better than everyone else's.
im never folding versus this player, no disrespect but ive played her a fair bit and she has a lot of trash in her range. Posted by THEROCK573
I have played the villain a few times and is very lag,tbh how it wor.ked out also very lucky and tbh surprised she called my shove and the call chasing 2nd nut flush.Looking back my call out of pos was imo garbish but with the set I think jamming is correct even though I was up against better set.
Comments
Are we absolutely sure that this player is only raising a nitty range?
I don't think we should be assuming that other players are going to get involved. Even if other players do call to see a flop, their ranges aren't as strong as the raiser, meaning that if they get it in against us post-flop they're likely to have considerably more equity against our set than a simple overpair would. The implied odds aren't good to set-mine.
We can call pre-flop if we're not giving this raise credit for being a nitty range. Obviously if we can call a flop bet and reassess the turn against a relatively wide pre-flop range, we're not restricting ourselves to set-mining.
I'm in agreement with those not liking shoving... 56BB over a limp and a 5x. I don't think the rewards from the occasions that we get the shove through are going to come close to all the times we bust as a 20/80 dog.
Fold if the villain's a nit. Call if the villain's playing a wider range. 3-bet/fold if the villain's playing a super-wide range (unless they're 4-betting wide too, in which case I'd open-fold to avoid levelling with 77 or call to play in position). Never shove. Them's my thoughts and they're so obviously better than everyone else's.