In Response to Re: folding AA : So going all-in pre with AA is good for the economy then with all those new monitor sales! But surely bad for the environment . I was specifically talking about folding pre as well. But yeah you are right in what you are saying. Would your AA have held up in the SPT had you not folded or was it the right call, or will you never know as the player didn't show his cards!? Posted by thefa1lacy
He did the classic "I'll let you see one card" which means they have both hit, and I'll leave you guessing what the actual hand is (The card I turned over had hit)... his 3bet size was huge which was out of character to his normal bluffs where he would of been prepared to slow down/fold if he met resistance. It was a tight fold, but at the time we were 2 of the chip leaders and it was risky to take him on.
Fwiw, the percentages with AA do/can vary by quite a large amount.
AA v A7o = 93.3% chance of winning
AA v 89s = only 77.9% chance of winning.
Either way we can't fold in a normal MTT unless the money really does mean ALOT to us. Like I might fold in the right situation on the stone bubble of the WSOP ME if I had a very healthy stack and was calling off for my tourney life. What means alot to someone is all relative though, some will probably nit up, desperate to cash in the roller, some will think meh I'm not bothered about min cashing, I'm trying to win.
Some people will nit up if the mincash is £30... just depends what it means to you I guess, but it would have to be alot for me to fold.... like a mincash in the roller last night was £200 ish and relevant to my roll that's a decent chunk but even there I wouldn't consider folding AA on the bubble.
Sounds like a good fold then FlashFlush in that SPT!
I'll add this to the discussion then, who when they are dealt AA has to consider their move and then get a sinking feeling until the hand plays off and you win. However when being dealt KK, there is no such drama and it's an immediate all-in because in your experience you very rarely lose with Kings! That's my story with Aces!
Paul out of interest, what is the probability of Aces holding against two PPs, say KK AND TT? Posted by bbMike
Ignoring decimal places - AA 66% - KK 18% TT 15%
Just go onto that famous search engine, put in holdem odds calculator and click the first result. It's a nice little tool, don't use it very often, but its good to play around with and get the idea of %'s in certain spots where maybe you think you are stronger than your really are and vice versa
Sounds like a good fold then FlashFlush in that SPT! I'll add this to the discussion then, who when they are dealt AA has to consider their move and then get a sinking feeling until the hand plays off and you win. However when being dealt KK, there is no such drama and it's an immediate all-in because in your experience you very rarely lose with Kings! That's my story with Aces! Posted by thefa1lacy
Lol I can honestly say I dont get this at all. Give me AA over KK any day of the week
Boom! 66% - I nailed it (nearly)! So I posted a valid question, which was querying whether anyone's responses would change if more people were all-in in front of you. Your win % is decreasing, but obviously there's a chance to accumulate a serious serious stack.
e.g. only 56% against AKs, QQ and TT.
Looking at that particular example it's never a fold! But what about 5 all-ins just outside of cashing positions??
Here's 1 for you... AA v QQ v 6h,7h AA is 60% If there is an Ah and a Qh shown you are still 20% chance with 6,7 and only 18% with QQ If neither of their pair's have hearts you are as much as 22% with 6,7 and the QQ is 17%. OK that's off topic slightly, but they are interesting figures that you can get from that site. Posted by FlashFlush
Interesting, and thanks for the link tip, very useful.
We might yet get an interesting debate from this thread!!
Lambert, I wish Aces were as lucky for me too. When players go out with Aces, you'll see people writing, "Curse of the Aces again" or similiar. Never hear that about Kings though.
That's purely because people get AA and think 'ok I've won the hand now'. People seem to think AA are just unbeatable, that they'll win 100% of the time, or that you can do all kinds of stupid stuff like limp to disguise them, then wonder why the guy in the BB who got a free flop with 8To has knocked them out.
People know KK can lose quite easily cos any Ax has a pretty good chance of winning.
In a DYM it's the bubble, you are on the BB with 2970 chips. Your three opponents all hold exactly 3010 chips each. The UTG player shoves, then the button and the SB both call.
It would be foolish to call with your AA. If you fold you will cash unless there's an extremely unlikely 3-way chop, something that'll probably only happen if all three of them play the board. Then even if they do chop you're still alive with 2970 chips less one big blind. Your elimination on the bubble is many times more likely if you call with your aces than if you fold.
if you ever folding AA pre in an mtt you need to retire. i wouldnt fold them under any circumstance no matter how big a tournament or whether i was on the bubble. play to win or go play a dym in my opinion.
the rock u would fold in a sattelite if top 10 qualify and 11 left and ya 2nd in chips and ya sat next to a guy thats got u covered there would be no need to play the hand u locked up ya seat certain scenarios u can fold aa that is 1 Posted by IDONKCALLU
yeah in a sat in certian situations but never ever in a gtd mtt.
I know this has morphed a bit from the OP, and now we're back to 'if you're folding AA pre anywhere but a satellite or other flat pay structure the you're out of your BR depth' yawn statements, I'll have one last go at trying to make it a tiny bit interesting...
1. With 3 players all-in, and knowing you're just 55% to win but would scoop 4x your stack do you ALWAYS snap call in an MTT?
2. Suppose your reads tell you due to betting pre one oppo DEFINITELY holds AA too. Can you find the fold here when he's all-in vs one other or are you happy to get a chop (taking 1/2 stack of other guy) vs a 20% chance you lose. Can you sit and watch the other guy take the pot if you fold?
Now I don't expect these questions to stimulate lengthy debate just trying to eek something else out of a thread that began 'I fold AA pre coz they always lose, and look it was a great fold'.
if you ever folding AA pre in an mtt you need to retire. i wouldnt fold them under any circumstance no matter how big a tournament or whether i was on the bubble. play to win or go play a dym in my opinion. Posted by THEROCK573
Congratulations, you have contradicted yourself again. That actually takes some doing!
In future you might be better to consider all eventualities that are theoretically possible before posting your viewpoint. It will save you either contradicting yourself, or having to add loads of caveats.
In Response to Re: folding AA : Congratulations, you have contradicted yourself again. That actually takes some doing! In future you might be better to consider all eventualities that are theoretically possible before posting your viewpoint. It will save you either contradicting yourself, or having to add loads of caveats. Posted by calcalfold
here you go again mr big big mouth getting clever with people. the original post is about an mtt, not a satalite,
i said i would never fold AA in an mtt so where have i contradicted myself???
Comments
AA v A7o = 93.3% chance of winning
AA v 89s = only 77.9% chance of winning.
Either way we can't fold in a normal MTT unless the money really does mean ALOT to us. Like I might fold in the right situation on the stone bubble of the WSOP ME if I had a very healthy stack and was calling off for my tourney life. What means alot to someone is all relative though, some will probably nit up, desperate to cash in the roller, some will think meh I'm not bothered about min cashing, I'm trying to win.
Some people will nit up if the mincash is £30... just depends what it means to you I guess, but it would have to be alot for me to fold.... like a mincash in the roller last night was £200 ish and relevant to my roll that's a decent chunk but even there I wouldn't consider folding AA on the bubble.
e.g. only 56% against AKs, QQ and TT.
Looking at that particular example it's never a fold! But what about 5 all-ins just outside of cashing positions??
We might yet get an interesting debate from this thread!!
People know KK can lose quite easily cos any Ax has a pretty good chance of winning.
In a DYM it's the bubble, you are on the BB with 2970 chips. Your three opponents all hold exactly 3010 chips each. The UTG player shoves, then the button and the SB both call.
It would be foolish to call with your AA. If you fold you will cash unless there's an extremely unlikely 3-way chop, something that'll probably only happen if all three of them play the board. Then even if they do chop you're still alive with 2970 chips less one big blind. Your elimination on the bubble is many times more likely if you call with your aces than if you fold.
1. With 3 players all-in, and knowing you're just 55% to win but would scoop 4x your stack do you ALWAYS snap call in an MTT?
2. Suppose your reads tell you due to betting pre one oppo DEFINITELY holds AA too. Can you find the fold here when he's all-in vs one other or are you happy to get a chop (taking 1/2 stack of other guy) vs a 20% chance you lose. Can you sit and watch the other guy take the pot if you fold?
Now I don't expect these questions to stimulate lengthy debate just trying to eek something else out of a thread that began 'I fold AA pre coz they always lose, and look it was a great fold'.
In future you might be better to consider all eventualities that are theoretically possible before posting your viewpoint. It will save you either contradicting yourself, or having to add loads of caveats.