Folding any hand in an MTT/SnG which is typically +EV, is always ICM dependant. Arguing the semantics is just stupid imo.
On the bubble of a DYM, when there's an all-in and a call in front of you? Yeah, almost definitely a fold.
In ANY cash game situation pre-flop? Almost never fold. (The Loose Cannon on The Big Game making arguably a correct fold pre-flop with Aces). See -Kelly Criterion
The stone-bubble of the WSOP ME, you have AA on an AVG stack, when the min-cash is worth more than your entire bankroll? Urgh, we're gunna be here a while.
Just like we say in life, guys. Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.
Yes, there are situations where it's "right" to fold Aces pre. Just don't go making a habit of it, unless you hate money, orrrrrr... you're playing me. ty
I know this has morphed a bit from the OP, and now we're back to 'if you're folding AA pre anywhere but a satellite or other flat pay structure the you're out of your BR depth' yawn statements, I'll have one last go at trying to make it a tiny bit interesting... 1. With 3 players all-in, and knowing you're just 55% to win but would scoop 4x your stack do you ALWAYS snap call in an MTT? 2. Suppose your reads tell you due to betting pre one oppo DEFINITELY holds AA too. Can you find the fold here when he's all-in vs one other or are you happy to get a chop (taking 1/2 stack of other guy) vs a 20% chance you lose. Can you sit and watch the other guy take the pot if you fold? Now I don't expect these questions to stimulate lengthy debate just trying to eek something else out of a thread that began 'I fold AA pre coz they always lose, and look it was a great fold'. Posted by bbMike
I had a good double with AA about 40 hands back and next time ive been dealt them in same tourney they've killed me so always stuck to the folding them if someone else as gone all in otherwise would of just 3x raise but folding them was right choice and in the end
In Response to Re: folding AA : I had a good double with AA about 40 hands back and next time ive been dealt them in same tourney they've killed me so always stuck to the folding them if someone else as gone all in otherwise would of just 3x raise but folding them was right choice and in the end Posted by screwy27
you actually are not wired up rite. this is so unbelievably stupid it hurts.
In Response to Re: folding AA : so you win all the time with AA ?? i knock myself out of mtt more with it by going all in with it Posted by screwy27
no i dont win all the time with AA, thats just not possible, but you win a **** of a lot more times than you lose with it. not my opinion just a simple mathematic fact. say someone goes all in against you and you hold AA, you make the call he turns over KK, your round about an 80% fav in this hand why would you want to fold here??? becuase he wins 1 time in 5. cmon mate give your head a wobble.
kk was turned over and did AA so that was the 1 in 5 so I was correct in folding them, and AA doesn't win 4 out of 5 ,and simple mathematics fact don't apply on here , how many times have your AA KK QQ lost to 23 or 56 78 or Q5suited ? more than what it wins, you like AA I don't
kk was turned over and did AA so that was the 1 in 5 so I was correct in folding them, and AA doesn't win 4 out of 5 ,and simple mathematics fact don't apply on here , how many times have your AA KK QQ lost to 23 or 56 78 or Q5suited ? more than what it wins, you like AA I don't Posted by screwy27
lol, pm if you need to speak to a good doctor cos i know one, theres help for every one, you included.
I was going to try and be rational here and explain why you shouldn't fold AA, but judging by your replies you're just another player who is in the totally wrong mindset for poker and have no interest in listening to the FACTS that everyone is telling you so I'll save my time.
In Response to Re: folding AA : so you win all the time with AA ?? i knock myself out of mtt more with it by going all in with it Posted by screwy27
I'll put money on the fact you have been knocked out of tournaments more playing AA than you have been playing 7,2. Why? Because you will of gone all in with AA 100 times and maybe lost 20 (I bet you don't remember the 80 you won), yet you have probably never gone all in with 7,2 so have never been knocked out with it. Does it mean 7,2 is better? No... law of averages my friend.
Think about the next sentence before saying what is the little luckbox on about.....If you win with AA v any hand all in pre, you have run above ev as a one off occurrence. People think its aces its the best hand they should win everytime.
From my experience, players who say my AA always gets beat fall into 2 categories
1. Selective memory, they forget the times they win with it 2. They play their hand awfully as they have AA and it must win every time. This tends to mean they pay little attention to the flop and get carried away with AA quite often in a spot where its obvious to their opponent that they have a large pair in their hands therefore giving them great implied odds as they know it wont be folded.
I'll chip in. If we're talking an MTT, you can practically never fold AA pre-flop. There is an argument that when there are 6 all ins ahead of you - you are then below 50% chance of winning - I have never seen that occurrence, and will discount it as statistically so ulikely as to be ignored. If it's the WSOP main event bubble? Shouldn't you play every tournament the same - regardless of the buy-in? If you're playing a tournament outside your roll, you may play differently....substitute "differently" for "badly". Yes, you may have satellited in for a fiver, but that should not play on your mind. A chip is a chip - it doesn't know the buy-in. A double-up is a double-up. Go for it. The only exception I can see here, is the chip and chair, and 3 people are all-in and so you will probably min cash by folding the AA. Again, that happens vanishingly rarely, and we can keep our brains in gear (I once came 2nd in a Sky main event with 1BB when 4 people on my table went all in before the blinds got to me - yes, I'd have folded AA there). Of course, in STTs and satellites it's different. You play the chip-stacks, not your cards.
Give this thread a bump when you next fold your Aces to pre-flop action and it turns out you'd have trebled up, because 70% of the time, that's what's going to happen.
Did anyone see the Turbo coverage tonight, was well weird. Aces held up, shorter stacks won all-ins, it was absolutely crazy!
Give this thread a bump when you next fold your Aces to pre-flop action and it turns out you'd have trebled up, because 70% of the time, that's what's going to happen. Did anyone see the Turbo coverage tonight, was well weird. Aces held up, shorter stacks won all-ins, it was absolutely crazy! Posted by bbMike
not be doing that mate not be playing no more not enjoying playing no more so when you get like that its time to quit not wasteing no more money just sitting there watching the same cards getting dealt and going out to larger stack everytime not poker to me that, and and no im not saying its rigged so good luck to everyone
Ok mate take care, if you're not enjoying it and you're not making money there aren't many more excuses to spend time on it. Good luck out there. Posted by bbMike
don't play to make money ,play for fun and try and breakeven or just under each month but not happened for 9 months now so throwing money away all the time may aswell play bingo or stick it on horse but on William hill instead as not donateing to sky no more
Let us leave AA out of this for a second and just list some simple truths here. Follow these and learn.
Playing a hand perfectly and losing = Good play Playing a hand badly and winning = Bad play Making a bad fold and you would have lost = Bad play Making a good fold and you would have won = Good play
Winning or losing the individual hand is totally irrelevant. Good play is good play and bad play is bad play. Good play time and time again will make a winning player. Bad play time and time again makes a losing player
Let us leave AA out of this for a second and just list some simple truths here. Follow these and learn. Playing a hand perfectly and losing = Good play Playing a hand badly and winning = Bad play Making a bad fold and you would have lost = Bad play Making a good fold and you would have won = Good play Winning or losing the individual hand is totally irrelevant. Good play is good play and bad play is bad play. Good play time and time again will make a winning player. Bad play time and time again makes a losing player Posted by Talon
Explain that 3rd line to me, I've read it a few times, can't work it out. A bad fold and would have lost is bad play? Thanks in advance.
Comments
Folding AA in general, post flop, easy just click fold! Pre flop, never unless already mentioned on bubble in a flat satellite structure.
On the bubble of a DYM, when there's an all-in and a call in front of you? Yeah, almost definitely a fold.
In ANY cash game situation pre-flop? Almost never fold. (The Loose Cannon on The Big Game making arguably a correct fold pre-flop with Aces). See - Kelly Criterion
The stone-bubble of the WSOP ME, you have AA on an AVG stack, when the min-cash is worth more than your entire bankroll? Urgh, we're gunna be here a while.
Just like we say in life, guys.
Extraordinary claims, require extraordinary evidence.
Yes, there are situations where it's "right" to fold Aces pre. Just don't go making a habit of it, unless you hate money, orrrrrr... you're playing me. ty
kk was turned over and did AA so that was the 1 in 5 so I was correct in folding them, and AA doesn't win 4 out of 5 ,and simple mathematics fact don't apply on here , how many times have your AA KK QQ lost to 23 or 56 78 or Q5suited ? more than what it wins, you like AA I don't
From my experience, players who say my AA always gets beat fall into 2 categories
1. Selective memory, they forget the times they win with it
2. They play their hand awfully as they have AA and it must win every time. This tends to mean they pay little attention to the flop and get carried away with AA quite often in a spot where its obvious to their opponent that they have a large pair in their hands therefore giving them great implied odds as they know it wont be folded.
If it's the WSOP main event bubble? Shouldn't you play every tournament the same - regardless of the buy-in? If you're playing a tournament outside your roll, you may play differently....substitute "differently" for "badly". Yes, you may have satellited in for a fiver, but that should not play on your mind. A chip is a chip - it doesn't know the buy-in. A double-up is a double-up. Go for it.
The only exception I can see here, is the chip and chair, and 3 people are all-in and so you will probably min cash by folding the AA. Again, that happens vanishingly rarely, and we can keep our brains in gear (I once came 2nd in a Sky main event with 1BB when 4 people on my table went all in before the blinds got to me - yes, I'd have folded AA there).
Of course, in STTs and satellites it's different. You play the chip-stacks, not your cards.
Did anyone see the Turbo coverage tonight, was well weird. Aces held up, shorter stacks won all-ins, it was absolutely crazy!
Good luck out there.
Playing a hand perfectly and losing = Good play
Playing a hand badly and winning = Bad play
Making a bad fold and you would have lost = Bad play
Making a good fold and you would have won = Good play
Winning or losing the individual hand is totally irrelevant. Good play is good play and bad play is bad play. Good play time and time again will make a winning player. Bad play time and time again makes a losing player