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Range Merging

BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
edited October 2013 in The Poker Clinic
This topic was briefly discussed on the show thread last night. I promised I'd give some sort of explanation of it, so here is my best attempt:


When we talk about merging our range we're usually talking about a bet on the river. We're making a (usually big) bet that is designed to look as though we must have either a massive hand, close to being the nuts, or a massive bluff.

If our range when making this bet actually was one of those two extremes, then we would be described as having a polarised range. This will give our opponent a problem when he's holding a middling hand, like second pair. If we can be bluffing a high enough percentage of the time, he can make a call here and bluff catch profitably.

When we're range merging, we're actually trying to make ourselves look as though we must have either a big hand or a bluff, so we're trying to represent a polarised range. What we actually have, though, is a hand like top-pair or similar - A hand that will beat the types of hand he can bluff-catch with. He can call us with a hand like second pair, thinking it's likely that we're bluffing because big hands are so hard to come by, but in reality we just show him top-pair.

The big benefit of this is that we can exploit more of our value range against an opponent we think is bluff-catching and we actually get more value than we would from a more 'standard' bet size.


Anything I've missed?
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Comments

  • TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited October 2013
    Is another benefit that we get to bluff more rivers without being horribly tilted towards bluffs? That is, if we are only value betting nut hands, and nut hands are hard to come by then we cant bluff too often without becoming unbalanced. betting more value hands allows us to bluff more with a bigger sizing.



    Cheers, 
    TEDDY
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited October 2013

    also with semi bluffs their is the added benefit of being able to get money into the pot ready for if you do hit the hand and if you miss they will have more chance of making ourselves look to be a decent hand whereas just calling until the draws will result in a loss over the long period.

  • peter27peter27 Member Posts: 1,634
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Range Merging:
    This topic was briefly discussed on the show thread last night. I promised I'd give some sort of explanation of it, so here is my best attempt: When we talk about merging our range we're usually talking about a bet on the river. We're making a (usually big) bet that is designed to look as though we must have either a massive hand, close to being the nuts, or a massive bluff. If our range when making this bet actually was one of those two extremes, then we would be described as having a polarised range. This will give our opponent a problem when he's holding a middling hand, like second pair. If we can be bluffing a high enough percentage of the time, he can make a call here and bluff catch profitably. When we're range merging, we're actually trying to make ourselves look as though we must have either a big hand or a bluff, so we're trying to represent a polarised range. What we actually have, though, is a hand like top-pair or similar - A hand that will beat the types of hand he can bluff-catch with. He can call us with a hand like second pair, thinking it's likely that we're bluffing because big hands are so hard to come by, but in reality we just show him top-pair. The big benefit of this is that we can exploit more of our value range against an opponent we think is bluff-catching and we actually get more value than we would from a more 'standard' bet size. Anything I've missed?
    Posted by BorinLoner
    That clarified things for me, thanks BorinLoner - well explained! :-)
  • gazza127gazza127 Member Posts: 2,156
    edited October 2013
    Got a lovely example here I believe....
    hhyftrftdr Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £10.88
    Slipwater Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £9.29
      Your hole cards
    • J
    • J
         
    leslie1953 Call   £0.04 £0.10 £6.82
    LARSON7 Raise   £0.12 £0.22 £3.82
    gazza127 Raise   £0.44 £0.66 £18.86
    hhyftrftdr Call   £0.42 £1.08 £10.46
    Slipwater Fold        
    leslie1953 Fold        
    LARSON7 Call   £0.32 £1.40 £3.50
    Flop
       
    • 10
    • 2
    • 3
         
    hhyftrftdr Bet   £0.70 £2.10 £9.76
    LARSON7 Fold        
    gazza127 Call   £0.70 £2.80 £18.16
    Turn
       
    • 7
         
    hhyftrftdr Check        
    gazza127 Bet   £2.80 £5.60 £15.36
    hhyftrftdr Call   £2.80 £8.40 £6.96
    River
       
    • Q
         
    hhyftrftdr Check        
    gazza127 Bet   £8.40 £16.80 £6.96
    hhyftrftdr All-in   £6.96 £23.76 £0.00
    gazza127 Unmatched bet   £1.44 £22.32 £8.40
    hhyftrftdr Show
    • 10
    • A
         
    gazza127 Show
    • J
    • J
         
    gazza127 Win Pair of Jacks £20.92   £29.32
    ;)
  • F_IvanovicF_Ivanovic Member Posts: 2,412
    edited October 2013
    Pretty standard river shove with JJ, not worthy of being a range merge :P
  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited October 2013
    range mergin is turning villians bluff catchers -ev

    it's also turning a portion of villians value range -ev

    when range merging it's best to have linear (depolarised) range



  • edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Range Merging:
    Got a lovely example here I believe.... hhyftrftdr Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £10.88 Slipwater Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £9.29   Your hole cards J J       leslie1953 Call   £0.04 £0.10 £6.82 LARSON7 Raise   £0.12 £0.22 £3.82 gazza127 Raise   £0.44 £0.66 £18.86 hhyftrftdr Call   £0.42 £1.08 £10.46 Slipwater Fold         leslie1953 Fold         LARSON7 Call   £0.32 £1.40 £3.50 Flop     10 2 3       hhyftrftdr Bet   £0.70 £2.10 £9.76 LARSON7 Fold         gazza127 Call   £0.70 £2.80 £18.16 Turn     7       hhyftrftdr Check         gazza127 Bet   £2.80 £5.60 £15.36 hhyftrftdr Call   £2.80 £8.40 £6.96 River     Q       hhyftrftdr Check         gazza127 Bet   £8.40 £16.80 £6.96 hhyftrftdr All-in   £6.96 £23.76 £0.00 gazza127 Unmatched bet   £1.44 £22.32 £8.40 hhyftrftdr Show 10 A       gazza127 Show J J       gazza127 Win Pair of Jacks £20.92   £29.32 ;)
    Posted by gazza127
    You'd have to shove river with 99 here looking to get called by 44/55/66/88 for this to be a range merge
  • gazza127gazza127 Member Posts: 2,156
    edited October 2013
    Booooo. Its clearly a merge. Single pair. Not even top pair called by second pair. Totally mergetastic.  Pretty much exactly what borinloners explanation was of a merge
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Range Merging:
    Booooo. Its clearly a merge. Single pair. Not even top pair called by second pair. Totally mergetastic.  Pretty much exactly what borinloners explanation was of a merge
    Posted by gazza127
    The river is so likely to be a brick because the Queen makes up so little of your range. It means it's pretty much just an overpair against top-pair.

    The only question for Harry is whether you've got it or not. He decided you probably didn't have it, but you're not really repping that massive straight, flush or full house type of hand because they're not present on the board. The draws have missed and, presumably, Harry thinks you're betting the missed flush draw, but it's not really a merge because your perceived range isn't that polarised.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Range Merging:
    Is another benefit that we get to bluff more rivers without being horribly tilted towards bluffs? That is, if we are only value betting nut hands, and nut hands are hard to come by then we cant bluff too often without becoming unbalanced. betting more value hands allows us to bluff more with a bigger sizing. Cheers,  TEDDY
    Posted by TeddyBloat
    That may be the case but now we're getting into a levelling situation. We're suggesting that, knowing we've given the impression that our polarising bets are likely to be de-polarised, we can re-polarise our range to take advantage of that image...

    ...and then we can de-polarise our range again when we've convinced our opponent that we're once again polarised...

    ...and then we can... etc. etc.


    :)
  • LnarinOOLnarinOO Member Posts: 545
    edited October 2013
    i wouldnt say there usually bigger bets..

    the higher the level of thought is where you see more and more range merging. players at the lower levels generally bet with more precise ranges.

    players that just bet their strong hands and occasional bluffs are pretty easy to figure out, you would jus call with the stonger part of your range when you think their bluffing and fold the middle part and worse part with no SDV..

    range merging is the concept that you could fold out a better hand but also a worse hand could call- when you identify the players you can start to merge your range it makes you increasingly more difficult to play against - i have heard the term ''value bluffing'' used before, and its because sometimes you may be betting for value and think you want a call and when the villan tanks and eventually calls, he may flip over the winner..

    there are going to be times that we bet and he's got a better hand and folds, and there are times that we bet and he's got a better hand and calls, and there are times that we bet and he's got a worse hand and folds, and there are times that we bet that he's got a worse hand and calls.

    this is range merging
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited October 2013
    here is what i think is a range merger because i did the cbet on the flop their was very little chance this villain would be thinking i held the flush and as i raised preflop i can try to represent the A to scare weak pairs.
    LARSON7 Small blind  £0.02 £0.02 £3.94
    BMG1 Big blind  £0.04 £0.06 £4.01
      Your hole cards
    • J
    • K
         
    craigcu12 Raise  £0.12 £0.18 £4.09
    BigRedFrd Fold     
    kruger Call  £0.12 £0.30 £3.21
    LARSON7 Fold     
    BMG1 Call  £0.08 £0.38 £3.93
    Flop
       
    • 10
    • A
    • 6
         
    BMG1 Check     
    craigcu12 Bet  £0.19 £0.57 £3.90
    kruger Fold     
    BMG1 Call  £0.19 £0.76 £3.74
    Turn
       
    • 10
         
    BMG1 Check     
    craigcu12 Bet  £0.57 £1.33 £3.33
    BMG1 Call  £0.57 £1.90 £3.17
    River
       
    • 3
         
    BMG1 Bet  £0.20 £2.10 £2.97
    craigcu12 Raise  £1.93 £4.03 £1.40
    BMG1 Call  £1.73 £5.76 £1.24
    craigcu12 Show
    • J
    • K
       
    BMG1 Muck
    • 5
    • A
       
    craigcu12 Win Flush to the Ace £5.32  £6.72
  • LnarinOOLnarinOO Member Posts: 545
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Range Merging:
    here is what i think is a range merger because i did the cbet on the flop their was very little chance this villain would be thinking i held the flush and as i raised preflop i can try to represent the A to scare weak pairs. LARSON7 Small blind   £0.02 £0.02 £3.94 BMG1 Big blind   £0.04 £0.06 £4.01   Your hole cards J K       craigcu12 Raise   £0.12 £0.18 £4.09 BigRedFrd Fold         kruger Call   £0.12 £0.30 £3.21 LARSON7 Fold         BMG1 Call   £0.08 £0.38 £3.93 Flop     10 A 6       BMG1 Check         craigcu12 Bet   £0.19 £0.57 £3.90 kruger Fold         BMG1 Call   £0.19 £0.76 £3.74 Turn     10       BMG1 Check         craigcu12 Bet   £0.57 £1.33 £3.33 BMG1 Call   £0.57 £1.90 £3.17 River     3       BMG1 Bet   £0.20 £2.10 £2.97 craigcu12 Raise   £1.93 £4.03 £1.40 BMG1 Call   £1.73 £5.76 £1.24 craigcu12 Show J K       BMG1 Muck 5 A       craigcu12 Win Flush to the Ace £5.32   £6.72
    Posted by craigcu12
    this is not range merging this is a pure value bet - 
  • SlipwaterSlipwater Member Posts: 3,611
    edited October 2013
    Range merging only works, as a concept, on 'good' players though. A lot of poorer players will always think it's a very good hand.
  • craigcu12craigcu12 Member Posts: 3,962
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Range Merging:
    Range merging only works, as a concept, on 'good' players though. A lot of poorer players will always think it's a very good hand.
    Posted by Slipwater
    +1

    that's the only reason I didn't ship the river here because that second 10 would be all this villain expects me to ship with.
  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Range Merging:
    i wouldnt say there usually bigger bets.. the higher the level of thought is where you see more and more range merging. players at the lower levels generally bet with more precise ranges. players that just bet their strong hands and occasional bluffs are pretty easy to figure out, you would jus call with the stonger part of your range when you think their bluffing and fold the middle part and worse part with no SDV.. range merging is the concept that you could fold out a better hand but also a worse hand could call- when you identify the players you can start to merge your range it makes you increasingly more difficult to play against - i have heard the term ''value bluffing'' used before, and its because sometimes you may be betting for value and think you want a call and when the villan tanks and eventually calls, he may flip over the winner.. there are going to be times that we bet and he's got a better hand and folds, and there are times that we bet and he's got a better hand and calls, and there are times that we bet and he's got a worse hand and folds, and there are times that we bet that he's got a worse hand and calls. this is range merging
    Posted by LnarinOO
    I'd regard these as the effects of having merged our range. By that I mean that the merging is the action of altering our perceived range, and that will have it's impact on our opponents folding/calling/raising ranges.

    Either way it's the same thing. It's just a matter of cause and effect, and which one you relate the term to.
  • LnarinOOLnarinOO Member Posts: 545
    edited October 2013
    of course these are the effects im talking about- i wasnt saying your incorrect im just expanding into the effects of merging your range and what it means - 
    merging anything is the opposite to polarising so didnt explain the cause as you kind of explained it yourself- but when you merge anything its the opposite of polarising.. if you dont polarise your betting range, and you decide to bet - rather then simply (and most exploitably)  just chck SDV hands on the river then you will be merging (de-polarising) your betting range


    basically what ever you merge, whether its your betting range on river or 3bet range or whatever- this just means your de-polarising. you were simply describing how you merge a betting range on the river i just thought id try and expand a little into the concept...


  • BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited October 2013
    In Response to Re: Range Merging:
    of course these are the effects im talking about- i wasnt saying your incorrect im just expanding into the effects of merging your range and what it means -  merging anything is the opposite to polarising so didnt explain the cause as you kind of explained it yourself- but when you merge anything its the opposite of polarising.. if you dont polarise your betting range, and you decide to bet - rather then simply (and most exploitably)  just chck SDV hands on the river then you will be merging (de-polarising) your betting range basically what ever you merge, whether its your betting range on river or 3bet range or whatever- this just means your de-polarising. you were simply describing how you merge a betting range on the river i just thought id try and expand a little into the concept...
    Posted by LnarinOO
    No you're right. I just misunderstood you.

    Yeah, I wanted to keep the OP fairly straightforward with a river scenario since I find that is easiest to explain. This was in response to a specific question from a relatively new player, so I didn't want to end up writing an enormous amount.

    It's certainly something that can be expanded upon, though.
  • LnarinOOLnarinOO Member Posts: 545
    edited October 2013
    haha thats cool but i bca to expand further- jus wanted to point exactly what merging someting is- its not jus one thing (river bet) its simply the opposite of polarising so the effects and reasons of why u would want to merge something, changes dramatically given different circumstances.. 
  • DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,929
    edited October 2013
    C'mon who's gonna become a hero by posting the first genuine range merge?????????
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