That was an easy snap for me on that hand. Few hands before that, when you had Queens full by river, was genuinely considering calling with K high, so 2nd pair was more than enough in that spot!
In Response to Re: Range Merging : The river is so likely to be a brick because the Queen makes up so little of your range. It means it's pretty much just an overpair against top-pair. The only question for Harry is whether you've got it or not. He decided you probably didn't have it, but you're not really repping that massive straight, flush or full house type of hand because they're not present on the board. The draws have missed and, presumably, Harry thinks you're betting the missed flush draw, but it's not really a merge because your perceived range isn't that polarised. Posted by BorinLoner
Take my **** name out Gazza! That was an easy snap for me on that hand. Few hands before that, when you had Queens full by river, was genuinely considering calling with K high, so 2nd pair was more than enough in that spot! Posted by hhyftrftdr
Lol no that's just a really bad bluff Craig. If you're shoving as a range merge, it means you have to be able to be called by worse.... good luck getting someone to call with 55 or 2x on that river lol.
The reason for that is because people don't generally do it. If you've done one, you'll know about it (or you should do lol). It requires some kinda dynamic/history between the players for instance that your opponent knows you can overbet shove rivers with nutty hands and complete air which means they start calling light in some spots to catch us out bluffing, so to exploit that, we include some hands in our range that are neither nutty or air, they are good enough to beat the bluff catching hands he'll call with when he expects us to have air.
Without those dynamics, most people generally assume overbet shoves on the river are just nutty, cos they usually are, so they won't make light calls, which means we can't include these weaker showdown hands in the 'value' shove range.
we have JJ and raise BTT- we get 3bet from the BB and we decide to call.
-flop- QQ6
villain bets and we call
-turn- 3
villan barrells and we call
-river- 8
villan shoves
for the examples sake lets just say both players have alot of history..if we know that villain can be merging here then it puts us in a tricky situation..
its not as easy as saying ' ok i think hes bluffing - i call' ......or ' ok i think he has it this time - i fold
this is because when's he's betting a merge range sometimes you will fold and he was 'value bluffing' 10's . and sometimes you willl call and he shows KK ...
the whole point is that when you move apart from playing ppl where you know they bluff too little so you can exploitably fold here or where ppl bluff too much so its a snap call- i mean ur average donk is not goin to be value betting 10's here once they get called twice- they will shut down their whole middle range and bet nuts or air..
so against a merged range your not always certain where you are- sometimes you call with worse and sometimes you fold a better hand-
imo leave all this to the egomanics and their levelling wars in the high stakes cash games- stick to the good ol fundamentals of the game and know when your betting for value- what worse hand or range that value is coming from and when your bluffing, you know that specific villain is capable of fold that certain part of their range--
heres 1 u got 99 on 10p/20p table u raise 60p u get called by guy on button flop is j 2 7 u bet £1 get called turn is q u bet again £2 etc get called river is 2 so board is j 2 7 q 2 and u still find a £4 bet on the river n get called this kinda hand would be a merge imo Posted by IDONKCALLU
I may be wrong, but I don't think this is a merge situation because on the river our range really doesn't have to be that polarised. I.e. it's not always gonna be nuts or air.
I have a great range merge spot that I remembered from a couple months back. Pretty similar to idonkcallu's scenario. I had 99 and called a 3-bet. Flop was Jxx and they checked to me, I bet. Turn and river were both blanks and I bet big OTT and river. I pretty much knew villain had AK and would call me down!
Comments
Totally a merge then
maybe their could be a reward for the first range merge hand lol
Without those dynamics, most people generally assume overbet shoves on the river are just nutty, cos they usually are, so they won't make light calls, which means we can't include these weaker showdown hands in the 'value' shove range.