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Live AK spot

Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
edited November 2013 in The Poker Clinic
Live cash 
50/1 

I raise UTG to £7 with AK clubs
Good player UTG+1 flats. 1 other caller

Flop
K Q 9 
2 diamonds 

I bet £15
Good player raises to £35

Effective stack is good player approx £400. 

Table is very weak in general. This is the only player we think is good
Our next move?
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Comments

  • LARSON7LARSON7 Member Posts: 4,491
    edited November 2013
    Maybe call and re-assess on the turn, is this how he plays his draws?

    Unless he has a set of 9s, or KQ, I would see atleast 1 more street.
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  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited November 2013
    I would just give him credit here and fold. This flop smacks your range utg so I doubt a good player is going to be playing back at you light here. Best case scenario is probably a hand like A10/AJdd which is going to bet the turn 100% of the time putting you in a really difficult spot. Raise size is also pretty small which seems to me that he wants a call/raise.
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    why so big raise preflop ?   std should be £4  rather win a small pot then lose a potential  big pot as played i would call here he could be doing this with a flush draw  or  a q  1 diamond   k j 1 diamond  but if u raise smaller pre the pot would be alot smaller so ya c-bet would be smaller 7 x kinda mad if u ask me
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Live cash very different to online
    £7 was actually kind of small for that table. Straddle was on most hands and we're all sitting pretty deep.
    Was playing like a 1/2

    If I had gone £4 there is a good chance I'd have had 7 callers!
    Not ideal oop :)
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    I would just give him credit here and fold. This flop smacks your range utg so I doubt a good player is going to be playing back at you light here. Best case scenario is probably a hand like A10/AJdd which is going to bet the turn 100% of the time putting you in a really difficult spot. Raise size is also pretty small which seems to me that he wants a call/raise.
    Posted by 77Chris91
    I did fold.
    The way I was looking at it there were plenty of better spots at the table.
    I know if I fiat, he will barrell both turn and river.
    I'm struggling to think of many turn cards I like.
    If he's semi bluffing or just plain bluffing then good luck to him.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2013
    call, folding is terrible
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  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot : I did fold. The way I was looking at it there were plenty of better spots at the table. I know if I fiat, he will barrell both turn and river. I'm struggling to think of many turn cards I like. If he's semi bluffing or just plain bluffing then good luck to him.
    Posted by Jac35
    WP... No need to tangle OOP against the only good player at the table in a difficult spot.
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot : WP... No need to tangle OOP against the only good player at the table in a difficult spot.
    Posted by 77Chris91
    yeah sounds good, fold toptop in a live game to a good player who is going to run you over all game.
    Then just wait to stack a fish.

    if the game is too big for you then you should not be sitting

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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot : yeah sounds good, fold toptop in a live game to a good player who is going to run you over all game. Then just wait to stack a fish. if the game is too big for you then you should not be sitting
    Posted by rancid
    Thanks for your input
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    Out of curiosity.
    Seeing as all you did was write your usual arrogant rubbish.
    Be nice to know why you think folding is terrible there?
    Folding makes the game too big for me?

    Just interested as to how you draw these conclusions
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  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot : yeah sounds good, fold toptop in a live game to a good player who is going to run you over all game. Then just wait to stack a fish. if the game is too big for you then you should not be sitting
    Posted by rancid
    If the villain starts getting out of line we can adjust. God knows why your mentioning stakes can't see the relevance. What range of hands are we doing well against then? Just hoping for a complete air?
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot : WP... No need to tangle OOP against the only good player at the table in a difficult spot.
    Posted by 77Chris91
    Pretty much the reasons why I folded.
    As I'd had a drink, I made the stupid mistake of folding face up.
    Cue, lots of debate from rest of table :)
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  • rancidrancid Member Posts: 5,945
    edited November 2013
    wow post an opinion and that's arrogant omfg

    o sorry jac, YEAH folding toptop to one raise is great play m8

    posting opposing opinions is frowned upon cause we dont want advice we just want people to tel us what great players we are
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    wow post an opnion and that's arrogant omfg
    Posted by rancid
    Clearly you don't like me, that's pretty evident from previous posts.
    Don't know why, but that's up to you.

    Just putting 'folding is terrible' is pretty pointless. If you expand on it, then that's great. It's why I posted the hand.
    The game too big? Why? Just seems a needless dig. Folding to a decent player oop with a hand that is hardly likely to improve for me is bad?
    'Just waiting to stack the fish?'  Again, why? Has nothing to do with this hand. 
    And if you want the truth then, yes, I would rather play a hand against a poor player who is less likely to put me in a difficult spot. Is that not just common sense?

    Its often commented on that people don't use the clinic much. Not hard to see why
    I won't be posting in here again
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    wow post an opinion and that's arrogant omfg o sorry jac, YEAH folding toptop to one raise is great play m8 posting opposing opinions is frowned upon cause we dont want advice we just want people to tel us what great players we are
    Posted by rancid
    What are you talking about?
    I DO want opinions, but reasons are pretty helpful too.
    I was happy with folding at the time but am open to other players thoughts on what I could have done.

    You didn't offer advice. You just said folding was terrible and the game was too big and I was just waiting to stack fish!
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    Henrik, Idcu, rancid

    Obv, I was never raising and calling was the option I was close to doing. Felt pretty dirty folding 
    What do we do on a blank turn?



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  • chicknMeltchicknMelt Member Posts: 1,159
    edited November 2013
    one thing you havent mentioned is how agro this player is - has he been playing back at you alot, or avoiding you in general, is he a butter or a nit? how often dows he flat your raises? 

    its borderline for me, thats why I ask - against some players I'm never folding this, but against others, it couldnt get in the muck fast enough...

    yeah, folding face up is pretty bad - you are asking the table to run you over...but I think you know that.
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  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited November 2013
    If we call on the flop it's because we think the villain can have semi-bluffs and air enough of the time. C/C on a blank turn that changes nothing. Would be good to know how aggro villain is in general.
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    one thing you havent mentioned is how agro this player is - has he been playing back at you alot, or avoiding you in general, is he a butter or a nit? how often dows he flat your raises?  its borderline for me, thats why I ask - against some players I'm never folding this, but against others, it couldnt get in the muck fast enough... yeah, folding face up is pretty bad - you are asking the table to run you over...but I think you know that.
    Posted by chicknMelt
    Yeah, should have mentioned that.
    As a rule, we're probably going to stay out of each other's way a lot, and stack the fish :)
    Though, As I mentioned the other night, we'd tangled a couple of times previously and I'd won decent pots.
    Up to this point, I've had the goods each time at showdown and I expect him to think I'm probably reasonably strong here.
    I think he would probably flat his draws a lot here.
    He could  however be steaming a little due to the other pots  which makes it more confusing.

    Was kind of inbetween looking to check call the rest of the way or doing what I did and folding.
    Guess I'll never know the right decision.

    Would anybody ever consider reraising on flop?
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  • 77Chris9177Chris91 Member Posts: 375
    edited November 2013
    Re-raising the flop is terrible ;)
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  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 6,491
    edited November 2013
    In Response to Re: Live AK spot:
    id check call down on blnk turn n river whats beating u kq and sets but are kk just going to call ya raise preflop i doubt it same as qq so only hand u can put him on is kq  99 and 10 j very narrow range 2 diamonds on flop leans me to think he has a pair with a flush draw a gd flop to raise
    Posted by IDONKCALLU
    Sigh, maybe was a bit nitty. 
    Yeah, exactly the hands I was putting him on, perhaps a bit too narrow. I was also ruling out KK and QQ.
    At the time. With little invested it seemed good to just lay it down.
    Maybe could have called the once and seen what he did on a blank turn.
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