Also gotta factor in the people who play the larger stakes on the site will probably drift between anything from 100/200nl to 1000nl depending on the action and the games. This would require a very chunky bankroll.
In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. Lambert recently had a 120 BI downswing. He'd have been broke 2 and a half times in your book Posted by hhyftrftdr
I heard he'd been living in a shed recently, so seems like that downswing has hit him hard.
In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : You seriously think that people who play for a living (and I mean properly play for a living) will only have/need 50 buy ins at the level they play?! No chance. 500 might have be at the extreme end of the scale, but a more realistic figure will be at least 250 BI. You could do 50 buy ins in a bad week if you're playing 8 tables for 10 hours a day! Think about it....player X plays 50nl for a living. 50 BI equates to just £2,500. Player X has a shocking day and drops 8 BI- £2,100 BR. Player X comes back the following day to try and grind it back. Another poor day leaves a deficit of 6 BI - £1,800 BR. Lambert recently had a 120 BI downswing. He'd have been broke 2 and a half times in your book Posted by hhyftrftdr
Sure you go broke if you stay playing at 50nl. If your losses push you below a threshold you drop limits. If you stick at the same stakes when you drop down majorly in buyins you go broke for sure.
I don't play seriously anymore as an eyesight issue means I can't play as long or extra tables, but I used to play 4 tables for 6 hours a day roughly, and I used the 50 buyins. When I stopped I was playing 400nl, and not sure why you think a 125 buyins would make you go broke? Using the system of dropping down this shouldn't happen. If I had a 125 buyin downswing, which is a nasty one I'd be back at 25nl playing.
Simple fact is more buyins only means you can maintain a level longer, and of course effects how much you can lose too. Fine I have say 300 buyins for $400nl and I lose 125BI I'm down $50,00 but at same level of buyin. If I'm set for 50BI and lose125BI I'm down $18,750 but knocked down to $25nl.
Must admit I've never seen anywhere it written that pros use 500 buyins for cash game, but hey I've not read the whole of the internet. Where did you read these figures at? Would like to read it myself, as most places I've looked before it's more int eh region I've said as a recomendation. I personally found 50-70 is more than enough and I played using that for best part of three years. I find the idea of needing over 100 a little bit odd, but hey I guess if you say they do it I stand to be corrected of course.
I'm not quoting anything that I've read. And like I said, 500 BI would be at the extreme end of the spectrum. But 50 BI is nowhere near enough for anyone playing seriously for a living. Absolute minimum would have to be 100, but 200+ is much more likely IMO.
Perhaps one of the forum guys who play for a living will give us an insight...
I'm not quoting anything that I've read. And like I said, 500 BI would be at the extreme end of the spectrum. But 50 BI is nowhere near enough for anyone playing seriously for a living. Absolute minimum would have to be 100, but 200+ is much more likely IMO. Perhaps one of the forum guys who play for a living will give us an insight... Posted by hhyftrftdr
I said before, I was playing it semi-pro. I grinded up from 10nl up to 400nl. I never would go pro with it though as firstly I don't need to do so, and secondly I'd hate to think it might ruin my enjoyment of the game.
I used 50BI during that period, and didn't find it a problem. Was I lucky? I doubt it, as I certainly had my downswings. If you didn't read about 100-500 buyins did someone say it to you? Or is this just your idea of a good BR system? If it's yours then all power to you, as it is up to a person what they consider safe to play with.
I can say this. When I first learnt to play properly I based some of my BR sytem off of people like Chris Ferguson, and some of the video and forum lessons done by the pros on Fulltilt as part of their poker school. This was back before they got all in trouble. lol Funny enough as I was writing this I checked and the video of his is still up, but on uTube. Check it out, as I think his BR management is even less strict thn I suggested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsEAHpgw6l0
Google bankroll management and I dobut you'll find many if any recomending more than 70 buyins, but as I said, each to their own level I guess.
Playing for a living you DEFINITELY want more than 50 BIs if possible imo.
Sure you can step down but maybe when you drop to $25NL you'd no longer be earning enough for a living, and you'd also need to be dedicating some of your profit to rebuilding your roll which means even less of your profit would be available for 'life stuff'.
Realistically you need an amount where you can have a horrid month (or multiple) and still be able to withdraw your 'wage' without a problem.
So say you wanna play 50 BIs @ 100NL but you need £1500 per month to live....
You got £5k, you have a horrible month and lose 30 BIs (very easily done) so you now have £2k left, but you need to withdraw £1.5k for your living expenses.... what do you do now with your remaining £500? Go and play 10NL? Cos you're gonna really struggle to make a living AND be rebuilding your roll at the same time @ 10NL lol.
100 BIs is an absolute minimum, 500 is probably a bit excessive but 200 BIs is probably a comfortable area to be around.
As a semi pro like you said you were 50 BI can be fine, but if it's your sole income, you're setting yourself up for a fall.
In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : I said before, I was playing it semi-pro. I grinded up from 10nl up to 400nl. I never would go pro with it though as firstly I don't need to do so, and secondly I'd hate to think it might ruin my enjoyment of the game. I used 50BI during that period, and didn't find it a problem. Was I lucky? I doubt it, as I certainly had my downswings. If you didn't read about 100-500 buyins did someone say it to you? Or is this just your idea of a good BR system? If it's yours then all power to you, as it is up to a person what they consider safe to play with. I can say this. When I first learnt to play properly I based some of my BR sytem off of people like Chris Ferguson, and some of the video and forum lessons done by the pros on Fulltilt as part of their poker school. This was back before they got all in trouble. lol Funny enough as I was writing this I checked and the video of his is still up, but on uTube. Check it out, as I think his BR management is even less strict thn I suggested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsEAHpgw6l0 Google bankroll management and I dobut you'll find many if any recomending more than 70 buyins, but as I said, each to their own level I guess. Posted by KAM99
I know a handful of people who play for a living, and they are very comfortably rolled for the limits they play. Ryan also said something on the show a while ago when quizzed about this matter. He said (something along the lines of) 100 BI is feasible, but 200 or more is much more realistic. You played semi pro, fair enough. That's why I emphasised about properly playing for a living, ie no other source of income. This just cannot be done on a 50 BI rule IMO. See Lambo's example for why.
Trying to build your bankroll is impossible when you have the kind ridiclous outdraws such as:
AA losing to 7's AK losing to AQ AJ losing to A2 10's losing to 6's K10 losing to 6's when someone calls on a flop of J10J
it wipes a large part of the bankroll, losing that successive 50-50's is normal but this kind of farce is unreal and is against all odds and probablities, would love to see Skys 'Random' card Generator!!
I would challenge anyone to ever build a bankroll when this happens as often as it does.
Trying to build your bankroll is impossible when you have the kind ridiclous outdraws such as: AA losing to 7's AK losing to AQ AJ losing to A2 10's losing to 6's K10 losing to 6's when someone calls on a flop of J10J it wipes a large part of the bankroll, losing that successive 50-50's is normal but this kind of farce is unreal and is against all odds and probablities, would love to see Skys 'Random' card Generator!! I would challenge anyone to ever build a bankroll when this happens as often as it does. Its not RANDOM Posted by SCHOF78
Aces will lose to 7s (and any other pair) once every five times.
Trying to build your bankroll is impossible when you have the kind ridiclous outdraws such as: AA losing to 7's AK losing to AQ AJ losing to A2 10's losing to 6's K10 losing to 6's when someone calls on a flop of J10J it wipes a large part of the bankroll, losing that successive 50-50's is normal but this kind of farce is unreal and is against all odds and probablities, would love to see Skys 'Random' card Generator!! I would challenge anyone to ever build a bankroll when this happens as often as it does. Its not RANDOM Posted by SCHOF78
5 conclusive hands that prove that the RNG isn't actually random.
Close the site down. Can't believe I've wasted 2 years of my life on Sky Poker. You owe me 2 years, Sky....
Trying to build your bankroll is impossible when you have the kind ridiclous outdraws such as: AA losing to 7's AK losing to AQ AJ losing to A2 10's losing to 6's K10 losing to 6's when someone calls on a flop of J10J it wipes a large part of the bankroll, losing that successive 50-50's is normal but this kind of farce is unreal and is against all odds and probablities, would love to see Skys 'Random' card Generator!! I would challenge anyone to ever build a bankroll when this happens as often as it does. Its not RANDOM Posted by SCHOF78
I started on the site with £20 about 4-5 years ago and didn't deposit again, and I've got a fair bit more than £20 now.
in my last session i had aa in 4 different comps and it finished identical to this where the chip leader get there. this has happened to me 4 time s in a row now, enough is enough always the chip leader wins the hands with the worst hand this is me done. samantha25 Small blind 300.00 300.00 1345.00 haylez83 Big blind 600.00 900.00 5803.50 Your hole cards A A threeGHD Raise 2100.00 3000.00 32700.00 Smilodon All-in 5505.00 8505.00 0.00 okydoaky Fold samantha25 Fold haylez83 Call 4905.00 13410.00 898.50 threeGHD All-in 32700.00 46110.00 0.00 haylez83 All-in 898.50 47008.50 0.00 threeGHD Unmatched bet 28396.50 18612.00 28396.50 haylez83 Show A A threeGHD Show 5 5 Smilodon Show K K Flop 6 5 10 Turn Q River J threeGHD Win Three 5s 18612.00 47008.50 Posted by haylez83
chip leader always win 99 out of 100 runs the tourney down quicker I found this out changed sites and im doing ok now yet on here couldn't win a shilling full house gets beats by 4 of a kind(chip leader) bad beat after bad beat you can moan about it like I did but people just say your playing bad yeah we all play bad but bad beat after bad beat !!!!
In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : chip leader always win 99 out of 100 runs the tourney down quicker I found this out changed sites and im doing ok now yet on here couldn't win a shilling full house gets beats by 4 of a kind(chip leader) bad beat after bad beat you can moan about it like I did but people just say your playing bad yeah we all play bad but bad beat after bad beat !!!! Posted by screwy27
the ultimate troll returns. you suck donkeys d*** at poker!!! just face facts.
In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : chip leader always win 99 out of 100 runs the tourney down quicker I found this out changed sites and im doing ok now yet on here couldn't win a shilling full house gets beats by 4 of a kind(chip leader) bad beat after bad beat you can moan about it like I did but people just say your playing bad yeah we all play bad but bad beat after bad beat !!!! Posted by screwy27
Not going to comment on the chips leader always wins, cus well that is just a retarded statement, and wrong of course. Feel free to remember you bad beats only though.
You also demonstrate a massive lack of understanding of MTT's if y ou think that controls the speed they end. You'll find tournaments will end in a fairly uniform time frame because of the blind levels. Has nothing to do with who wins what pot and when. So if you had a full 5000 palyer tournament and ran it 100 times the ending time would not be significantly different on them.
The sites gain little in forcing a faster end time, and it is not needed when the blinds increase do that plenty fine enough.
As for playing another site and being up there and down here. Err, well if you playing tournaments they are massively prone to variance due to the luck factor in them. To suggest a site is rigged against you is dumb as all heck. They gain nothing by forcing a playing to go broke by rigging the game against them. My guess is either your game got better or you just been luckier so far at the new site.
Playing with 50 buy ins for a living is just totally rediclous. Typically when a player starts off playing full time they will have at least 18 months living expenses and at least 250 buy ins at a level where their hourly rate is the highest.
Also anything under nl100£ than it will probably be a struggle to carve a living out of poker.
Players from countries like Romania,Bulgaria,Ukraine etc etc will have a better chance at making a living due to the low cost of living, thats why many English Pros will head to countries like Thailand, Vietnam, Costa reca etc etc for long periods of time. Typically they will be in groups sharing the rent, bills etc.
Anyone trying to make a living from the game here in the UK will always struggle, unless they're making 40k+ a year.
In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : the ultimate troll returns. you suck donkeys d*** at poker!!! just face facts. Posted by THEROCK573
but im in profit on another site !!!! so I must just play bad on sky poker (which is infact the only site that sends me free bonuses don't know why)
In Response to Re: struggling to deal with these beats.. : Not going to comment on the chips leader always wins, cus well that is just a retarded statement, and wrong of course. Feel free to remember you bad beats only though. You also demonstrate a massive lack of understanding of MTT's if y ou think that controls the speed they end. You'll find tournaments will end in a fairly uniform time frame because of the blind levels. Has nothing to do with who wins what pot and when. So if you had a full 5000 palyer tournament and ran it 100 times the ending time would not be significantly different on them. The sites gain little in forcing a faster end time, and it is not needed when the blinds increase do that plenty fine enough. As for playing another site and being up there and down here. Err, well if you playing tournaments they are massively prone to variance due to the luck factor in them. To suggest a site is rigged against you is dumb as all heck. They gain nothing by forcing a playing to go broke by rigging the game against them. My guess is either your game got better or you just been luckier so far at the new site. Posted by KAM99
Comments
I don't play seriously anymore as an eyesight issue means I can't play as long or extra tables, but I used to play 4 tables for 6 hours a day roughly, and I used the 50 buyins. When I stopped I was playing 400nl, and not sure why you think a 125 buyins would make you go broke? Using the system of dropping down this shouldn't happen. If I had a 125 buyin downswing, which is a nasty one I'd be back at 25nl playing.
Simple fact is more buyins only means you can maintain a level longer, and of course effects how much you can lose too. Fine I have say 300 buyins for $400nl and I lose 125BI I'm down $50,00 but at same level of buyin. If I'm set for 50BI and lose125BI I'm down $18,750 but knocked down to $25nl.
Must admit I've never seen anywhere it written that pros use 500 buyins for cash game, but hey I've not read the whole of the internet. Where did you read these figures at? Would like to read it myself, as most places I've looked before it's more int eh region I've said as a recomendation. I personally found 50-70 is more than enough and I played using that for best part of three years. I find the idea of needing over 100 a little bit odd, but hey I guess if you say they do it I stand to be corrected of course.
samantha25 Small blind 300.00 300.00 1345.00
haylez83 Big blind 600.00 900.00 5803.50
Your hole cards
A
A
threeGHD Raise 2100.00 3000.00 32700.00
Smilodon All-in 5505.00 8505.00 0.00
okydoaky Fold
samantha25 Fold
haylez83 Call 4905.00 13410.00 898.50
threeGHD All-in 32700.00 46110.00 0.00
haylez83 All-in 898.50 47008.50 0.00
threeGHD Unmatched bet 28396.50 18612.00 28396.50
haylez83 Show
A
A
threeGHD Show
5
5
Smilodon Show
K
K
Flop
6
5
10
Turn
Q
River
J
threeGHD Win Three 5s 18612.00 47008.50
I used 50BI during that period, and didn't find it a problem. Was I lucky? I doubt it, as I certainly had my downswings. If you didn't read about 100-500 buyins did someone say it to you? Or is this just your idea of a good BR system? If it's yours then all power to you, as it is up to a person what they consider safe to play with.
I can say this. When I first learnt to play properly I based some of my BR sytem off of people like Chris Ferguson, and some of the video and forum lessons done by the pros on Fulltilt as part of their poker school. This was back before they got all in trouble. lol Funny enough as I was writing this I checked and the video of his is still up, but on uTube. Check it out, as I think his BR management is even less strict thn I suggested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsEAHpgw6l0
Google bankroll management and I dobut you'll find many if any recomending more than 70 buyins, but as I said, each to their own level I guess.
100 BIs is an absolute minimum, 500 is probably a bit excessive but 200 BIs is probably a comfortable area to be around.
As a semi pro like you said you were 50 BI can be fine, but if it's your sole income, you're setting yourself up for a fall.
AA losing to 7's
AK losing to AQ
AJ losing to A2
10's losing to 6's
K10 losing to 6's when someone calls on a flop of J10J
it wipes a large part of the bankroll, losing that successive 50-50's is normal but this kind of farce is unreal and is against all odds and probablities, would love to see Skys 'Random' card Generator!!
I would challenge anyone to ever build a bankroll when this happens as often as it does.
Its not RANDOM
None of these are particularly 'bad'.
You also demonstrate a massive lack of understanding of MTT's if y ou think that controls the speed they end. You'll find tournaments will end in a fairly uniform time frame because of the blind levels. Has nothing to do with who wins what pot and when. So if you had a full 5000 palyer tournament and ran it 100 times the ending time would not be significantly different on them.
The sites gain little in forcing a faster end time, and it is not needed when the blinds increase do that plenty fine enough.
As for playing another site and being up there and down here. Err, well if you playing tournaments they are massively prone to variance due to the luck factor in them. To suggest a site is rigged against you is dumb as all heck. They gain nothing by forcing a playing to go broke by rigging the game against them. My guess is either your game got better or you just been luckier so far at the new site.
Also anything under nl100£ than it will probably be a struggle to carve a living out of poker.
Players from countries like Romania,Bulgaria,Ukraine etc etc will have a better chance at making a living due to the low cost of living, thats why many English Pros will head to countries like Thailand, Vietnam, Costa reca etc etc for long periods of time. Typically they will be in groups sharing the rent, bills etc.
Anyone trying to make a living from the game here in the UK will always struggle, unless they're making 40k+ a year.