£100 deep stack...cmon on sky!

profman15

Hi folks 

I was reluctant to flag this as a criticism of sky but i do feel like the low level deep stacks on sky at £2.20 for £100 instead of £200 are a bit mean. I used to play dym's and BH's etc but lost interest and just played some DS's to keep my hand in a bit as i'd lost interest tbh. Don't get me wrong. i like Sky poker. I've joined a team and play the DTD forum regularly but do find that the pay outs, something like money back for 12th or so, a bit mean considering that people will probably move up bi's if they have some meaningful success. Yes i could speculate in the £750 DS's for £22 or try to satellite but im not so inclined atm or financially able or willing to play £22 bi's for some entertainment.

Medical situations have seen poker be more helpful to my enjoyment of living in the last couple of years but now i find myself being a little critical of some 'stuff'. I know its a bit petty but am i alone in finding a potentially enjoyable tournament lacking because the prize set up is so frankly meaningless unless you top three say. I'd pay £5.50 bi but there doesnt seem to be many if any on sky. Maybe im just a bit fed up today. No doubt the DTD tonight will cheer me up. Last week i came 2nd onerall for a profit of a fiver or so but that didnt matter as it was for the team. In the middle of the week its a bit of a different emotion. Any thoughts guys. Maybe its just PMS!!!!!! LOL

Chris_Mc

+1

jonjo75

How many runners does it get?

rainman397

+1

profman15

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky!:

How many runners does it get?
Posted by jonjo75

HI Jonjo

Don't get me wrong J but £200 has been the prize offered in the past for pretty much the same number of runners and bi. It just seems like deep stacks aren't covered very well and that there is a gap in the BI's available for DS's on sky. Personally i feel this is poor by sky BUT DS's take longer to play whereas DYM's, BH's probably have a higher profit level per minute. There are plenty of people playing sky poker who are in the same position as myself, i feel. Deep stacks are, imo, not covered to the same extent as other types of more profitable T's for Sky. I just don't see why the £200 was taken away and replaced by £100 prize pot for the same BI. Personally speaking i am getting less enjoyment than i feel i should and yes, i admit it, i've considered looking on other sits for 'better' deep stacks though i haven't yet. 

Frankly its a poor return for the effort made to try to win.. After all, cash players and books are always talking about the number of big blinds per hour they can make on this site or another. No i'm not a cash player or indeed a person who likes to gamble but why shouldn't us recreational players feel that for a admittedly small bi their good play may earn them a reasonable return? And lets face we are playing for pleasure at these levels not wonderful profits. Its just that even good play will provide a long term loss at these payout structures in cheap bi's DS's.

Sorry but it's an opinion i have and a couple of fellow small bi deep stack players seem to agree. why not have  a range of deep stack t's at different prices....£3.30, £5.50 for a better prize Sky as i feel you may actually lose some customer base if not. Some of us are fed up of Dym's(where i was actually a winning player) and BH's where maniacs make for a terribly boring waiting game.

jonjo75

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky!:

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky! : HI Jonjo Don't get me wrong J but £200 has been the prize offered in the past for pretty much the same number of runners and bi. It just seems like deep stacks aren't covered very well and that there is a gap in the BI's available for DS's on sky. Personally i feel this is poor by sky BUT DS's take longer to play whereas DYM's, BH's probably have a higher profit level per minute. There are plenty of people playing sky poker who are in the same position as myself, i feel. Deep stacks are, imo, not covered to the same extent as other types of more profitable T's for Sky. I just don't see why the £200 was taken away and replaced by £100 prize pot for the same BI. Personally speaking i am getting less enjoyment than i feel i should and yes, i admit it, i've considered looking on other sits for 'better' deep stacks though i haven't yet.  Frankly its a poor return for the effort made to try to win.. After all, cash players and books are always talking about the number of big blinds per hour they can make on this site or another. No i'm not a cash player or indeed a person who likes to gamble but why shouldn't us recreational players feel that for a admittedly small bi their good play may earn them a reasonable return? And lets face we are playing for pleasure at these levels not wonderful profits. Its just that even good play will provide a long term loss at these payout structures in cheap bi's DS's. Sorry but it's an opinion i have and a couple of fellow small bi deep stack players seem to agree. why not have  a range of deep stack t's at different prices....£3.30, £5.50 for a better prize Sky as i feel you may actually lose some customer base if not. Some of us are fed up of Dym's(where i was actually a winning player) and BH's where maniacs make for a terribly boring waiting game.
Posted by profman15

I actually agree that there could be more deepstacks or just regular freezeout tourneys but I am sure th GTs are related to how many runners that MTT gets, if more play ,the GT will go up, less and it will go down.

DoubleAAA

I think what OP is trying to say is why are there no £5 buy in Deepstack tournaments with say a Guarantee which reflects the number interested.  We have a deepstack @£22 and @£2 but nothing ~£5-£11.

The £5 buy ins are flooded with BHs and a couple of 2k starting stack freezeouts.

Tikay10

Morning Proffy,

How many runners do these £2.20, £100 Guaranteed Deepstacks get?

rainman397

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky!:

Morning Proffy, How many runners do these £2.20, £100 Guaranteed Deepstacks get?
Posted by Tikay10

Good afternoon Tikay
I play these evening  deepstacks when i am off work. and they always seem to get over 100 runners.
All the best
Rainman397

Slykllist

Think jonjo75 has answered this perfectly, the GTD will always reflect the number of entrants or 'expected' number of entrants.  I'm sure the Sky have people who work pretty hard monitoring this kind of thing and if they felt that liquidity could be increased by upping a guarantee without risking giving away huge overlay then they would do it, it's just good business sense.  If a gtd is pegged at £100 it will be because current player trends suggest that is the maximum that the business can guarantee without exposing itself to unacceptable levels of risk.

Regarding payout structures, it's just the nature of MTT's, they will always be (and should always remain imo) top heavy, I think that the Sky structures are actually pretty good since the changes they made a while ago.  If you flatten these structures too much you end up taking too much off the top and diluting the appeal of winning the tournament which in turn can have a negative effect on the overall appeal of the tournament and therefor negatively affect player numbers.......... Which again leads us to a situation of failing to make guarantees......

Simple answer - stop meesing about with min cashes and go and win the things

FWIW, I also agree about £5.50 / £11.00 Freezouts, I would love to see more in this buy-in range, but as we all know Sky punters do love a bounty hunter!

FlyingDagg

The 7-15 £2-20 deepstack went through a lean period and that is why the Gtd was gradually dropped to £100. In the couple of months or so this has now picked up to between 100 and 140 according to my games history. There's already been a thread started asking if Sky would consider putting up the guarantee but no response so far. Like others I would like to see more choice in deepstacks but this subject has raised it's head a few times since I joined and apart from the Megastack going thrice weekly nothing has changed.

Lambert180

Don't think it'll make much of a difference tbh. If it guarantees £100 and gets 70 runners or guarantees £140 and gets 70 runners the prizepool is the same. Are there really lots of people looking at it but deciding not to play because it only has X runners/prizepool? If it could justify say a £200 guarantee, it'd probably already be getting enough runners to make that £200 itself.

FWIW, the payouts are low but that's relative to the BI. A £5/£10/£20/£50 (whatever) freezeout with the same field will be exactly the same in terms of how many times you'd multiply the BI for a given cash.

profman15

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky!:

Morning Proffy, How many runners do these £2.20, £100 Guaranteed Deepstacks get?
Posted by Tikay10

Hi Tikay

It's been over 100 regularly I think. The 715  used to be £200 with the 745  £100 but pretty much the same numbers. I would play both for enjoyment as I'd lost interest in BH's  and dym's for some reason. Yes I understand payout structures but when cashes do not even return your bi at times when you've beaten 90% of the field seems like a waste of time. Now don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed sky poker thoroughly but this lack of meaningful DS's across a smallish bi range  does not satisfy myself, and I suspect,a number of others who genuinely like sky pokers set up and ethos. Believe me guys, I'm not a hater or a big moaner of bad beats, RNG's, Teacakes beard etc. I just fancy playing some DS's for a cheapish affordable bi that enables me to just get some entertainment nightly and reasonable return if I play reasonably well as well as playing against others who don't see it as a silly T to make silly plays at. Very low prize pools do not help.

Personally I'd be happy to play 3.30 or 5.50 DS's but they just don't exist, do they?

My posts have never been hammering sky and maybe it's just trying to say that I want to play something competitive that I enjoy. The variety or worth isn't really here in these type of games. I'm just pointing out something that I feel sky could consider. It's not a massive amount to increase a prize pool, would keep players who enjoy DS's with no great bankroll and allow them to feel that they are being considered a little. No we aren't your big players who are rewarded monthly by the way but we are a base that may recommend sky to friends if they feel that they are being considered too. Yes it's a business but I was attracted initially to sky because of its helpfulness through the channel 861 and its stance of being able to report abuse etc. if the numbers don't exist to play DS's at these levels then I will concede. I'm not asking for a charitable donation. I'm just looking to play a bit of poker nightly where I don't have to allow how much I lose to influence mylife toomuchhair whilst also seeing that an occasional good result brings a smile to my face. Some of these cashes have made me irritated in all fairness..

Sorry T, but that's how I've felt lately.. ...no offence is intended towards Sky poker 

stokefc

the 7.15 has over £200 in the pot most nights(except friday which i find strange)but i think imho sticking a 200 gtd on to the 7.15 will make it more appealing than it is now..obv..so go on sky make it 2oo just for a month to see how it goes

FlyingDagg

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky!:

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky! : Hi Tikay It's been over 100 regularly I think. The 715  used to be £200 with the 745  £100 but pretty much the same numbers. I would play both for enjoyment as I'd lost interest in BH's  and dym's for some reason. Yes I understand payout structures but when cashes do not even return your bi at times when you've beaten 90% of the field seems like a waste of time. Now don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed sky poker thoroughly but this lack of meaningful DS's across a smallish bi range  does not satisfy myself, and I suspect,a number of others who genuinely like sky pokers set up and ethos. Believe me guys, I'm not a hater or a big moaner of bad beats, RNG's, Teacakes beard etc. I just fancy playing some DS's for a cheapish affordable bi that enables me to just get some entertainment nightly and reasonable return if I play reasonably well as well as playing against others who don't see it as a silly T to make silly plays at. Very low prize pools do not help. Personally I'd be happy to play 3.30 or 5.50 DS's but they just don't exist, do they? My posts have never been hammering sky and maybe it's just trying to say that I want to play something competitive that I enjoy. The variety or worth isn't really here in these type of games. I'm just pointing out something that I feel sky could consider. It's not a massive amount to increase a prize pool, would keep players who enjoy DS's with no great bankroll and allow them to feel that they are being considered a little. No we aren't your big players who are rewarded monthly by the way but we are a base that may recommend sky to friends if they feel that they are being considered too. Yes it's a business but I was attracted initially to sky because of its helpfulness through the channel 861 and its stance of being able to report abuse etc. if the numbers don't exist to play DS's at these levels then I will concede. I'm not asking for a charitable donation. I'm just looking to play a bit of poker nightly where I don't have to allow how much I lose to influence mylife toomuchhair whilst also seeing that an occasional good result brings a smile to my face. Some of these cashes have made me irritated in all fairness.. Sorry T, but that's how I've felt lately.. ...no offence is intended towards Sky poker 
Posted by profman15

Surely that can't happen now they have restructured the prize money? As far as I'm aware a min cash in either the £1-10 or £2-20 deepstack returns more than the buy in.

Slykllist

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky!:

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky! : Surely that can't happen now they have restructured the prize money? As far as I'm aware a min cash in either the £1-10 or £2-20 deepstack returns more than the buy in.
Posted by FlyingDagg

Quite correct, as far as I'm aware the only time this can ever happen now would be if you min cash in a Bh and don't take any head prizes.

profman15

Hi Dagg

TBH i feel it has happened tome but i may be wrong. I would say that the reduction from £200 to £100 certainly makes the DS less appealing and for people who like Ds's there isn't much choice tbh. Why not just experiment. Try a £3.30 DS at 7.45 for whatever appropriate prize pool instead of the £1.10 £100 one. I'm only voicing my opinion of the variety of DS on sky for a certain type of recreational player. Without sensible discussion and consideration how can sky come to any decisions or changes/experiments without suggestions being made. 

i'm looking forward to Tikay's opinion as i do think he'll make some good points.

DOHHHHHHH

Its a no brainer.

Avg prizepool - 10 x buyins = roughly what the gntee should be.

Then move it up and down accordingly. 

5 minute job once a week to do this for every tournament on the site.

Lambert180

In case you didn't know, there is...

£5.50 freezeout £200 GTD @ 7:15pm   (late reg still open now)

£5.50 freezeout £200 GTD @ 9:05pm

They run 7 days a week as far as I know.

Both are good tournies, I used to play them most nights when I was grinding MTTs a month or two ago, both usually break the guarantee and 1st prize is usually £100+ if I remember rightly. Again you're gonna have the same issue that with around 40-50 runners, you're probably gonna need to FT to cash and if it's top 6 paid, making the mincash might only be £15 but that's MTTs for ya.

Good player will not result in a long term loss in any of the cheap deepstacks on Sky (or any site) but you have to realise how small the edges are and what that equates to in terms of the BI. Let's say you're playing £2 deepstacks and you are absolutely smashing them and have a ROI of 30% (which is very high!), that means long term for every £2.20 deepstack you play, you are only making 66p profit, and that's with an amazing winrate. That's not the fault of the game, the payout structure etc though, it's purely down to the BI. You're never gonna get rich from £2 deepstacks but you can definitely use them to essentially have a free hobby for the rest of your life.

GEO68

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky!:

the 7.15 has over £200 in the pot most nights(except friday which i find strange)but i think imho sticking a 200 gtd on to the 7.15 will make it more appealing than it is now..obv..so go on sky make it 2oo just for a month to see how it goes
Posted by stokefc

I think the reason numbers on a Friday are down is a lot of the regular 7.15 Deepstack players play the Orfy on a Friday .

profman15

In Response to Re: £100 deep stack...cmon on sky!:

In case you didn't know, there is... £5.50 freezeout £200 GTD @ 7:15pm   (late reg still open now) £5.50 freezeout £200 GTD @ 9:05pm They run 7 days a week as far as I know. Both are good tournies, I used to play them most nights when I was grinding MTTs a month or two ago, both usually break the guarantee and 1st prize is usually £100+ if I remember rightly. Again you're gonna have the same issue that with around 40-50 runners, you're probably gonna need to FT to cash and if it's top 6 paid, making the mincash might only be £15 but that's MTTs for ya. Good player will not result in a long term loss in any of the cheap deepstacks on Sky (or any site) but you have to realise how small the edges are and what that equates to in terms of the BI. Let's say you're playing £2 deepstacks and you are absolutely smashing them and have a ROI of 30% (which is very high!), that means long term for every £2.20 deepstack you play, you are only making 66p profit, and that's with an amazing winrate. That's not the fault of the game, the payout structure etc though, it's purely down to the BI. You're never gonna get rich from £2 deepstacks but you can definitely use them to essentially have a free hobby for the rest of your life.
Posted by Lambert180

Hi lambert

Firstly, just to repeat the congrats on your 3rd place etc...great stuff. 

Are the freeze outs deep stacks.

As for that ridiculous win rate to gain profit then surely that supports my feelings of 'why bother' syndrome.

 Yes I want entertainment in a friendly mtt. No, I'm not wanting to spend eons on two monitors to make a living. On Friday I will play the Orfy and don't see the reduced prize pool as worth playing(though I may do at times). And the same on Monday for the Dtd forum. It's not particularly appealing. That is all I'm saying and for quite a lot who play the DS's that feeling is mutual.tbh it also promotes some really poor frustrating play (they all do at times, I hear you say)

Ok say 'get lost...you won't be missed.....who cares' etc and I recognise that my contribution to sky poker is minuscule but it shouldn't mean that I can't ask to be considered. If the answer from sky is no the prize pool stays the same and with no variety of DS's even to appeal more to players then fine. I've asked to be considered and if this is discussed and determined logically then I can accept that. If my appeal for them wanes then it's no bother. I'm just asking as a person who prefers DS's ATM.whether I carry on in its wake will be a decision I can happily then make. 

Ps I stopped playing dym's when I had a winning roi of about 8% so it's not the cash . I'm playing for enjoyment but don't want to give money away constantly or need to have a mad roi rate to profit a little. Asa retired  maths teacher I'm just looking at the figures, that's all. If it doesn't make sense for the number of players/extra appeal to sky then sobe it.