1) There are lots of pots where I raised pre, whiffed the flop but cbet, got called, checked a blank turn, folded to a river raise.
A lot of these were vs weaker players... I can't quite bring myself (yet) to station down with A-/K-high or underpair to the board too often, but maybe I need to.
I think I double (and triple) barrel more than most at these levels, but am not sure it's a sensible tactic with so many people happily calling to see out their draws. But perhaps I am just giving too much credit when I have no hand and face a pattern of call flop/check turn/bet river.
2) Slowing down on turn scare cards with stronger hands.
I get and use (in a fashion) the concept of bluffing/semi-bluffing turn cards when you have the initiative in the pot - ie raise pre, cbet flop, barrell turn when an A / K falls as most oppo will recognise you would likely have raised pre with one of these cards and are now less happy about their pocket 2s.
I wonder whether I need to recognise this in reverse when I have a big hand, ie set, 2 pr, or when I have actually improved with my AK/AQ hands etc - as I may be more likely to get value from my hand if I rep being scared of the card (as I would if I had pocket 10s, Js etc).
I do seem to have a lot of hands where I get one street of value and then lose my way en route to value town through being too greedy on the turn.
Obviously this isn't something I'd be trying if flush and/or straight draws were evolving on the board.
I wonder whether over the longer term this sort of approach may mean bigger wins to offset the times I allow them to hit a river that beats me.
Only a very short two-table session yesterday. Had a brief stint at an NL20 table due to there being an option to sit in position to two players I've played a bit at various micro levels from NL4-NL10 and couldn't really turn that down.
Left the table as soon as they were both felted (yeah, I'm a filthy bumhunter) as although I'd had some good cards vs the 3 regs at the table, I was evidently going to be the fish from that point and didn't fancy donating my winnings.
Had a great spot on the NL10 table I had running parallel, but things to do so broke even after a bit of an early loss on that table.
One hand that bemused me a little, in a good way, was how I got a fold here. Probably should have smooth called turn (in retrospect) but thought the oppo would be pot committed with c75% of stack in middle.
Notes suggested the donk would be an A or Q (most likely TP) so really surprised that it must have been a double barrell bluff to then fold for the last £6.90 with so much in the pot!
Hi Shaky I gather you're a Forest fan? I'll be there Saturday to see them against the mighty Cherries. Should be a good game. Posted by VespaPX
Hi Vespa.
Yeah normally a good game, Bournemouth have always seemed to play football 'the right way' from what I've seen of them the past few years.
The last time I visited the Fitness First Arena (or whatever it was called at the time) was during our League 1 days. Was a bit odd as they seemed to have sold more tickets than they had seats, so there were loads of away fans stood/sat in the aisles and a 90-minute long argument with stewards that we had to take seats (that didn't exist).
Also nearly lost my head in exchange for the half time pie - the shutters just auto came down dead on 4pm while I was leaning on the counter... that nearly caused another battle between fans and officials as loads of people had their money / beer / pie the other side of the shutters.
Don't really fancy us in this one tbh, but then we always like to make things as painful as possible... so will probably fluke a win in order to set up a far greater disappointment vs Brighton or Derby
I'm a little disappointed updating this today, after never really getting going on Sunday and losing a big all-in during my brief one-table NL20 foray to end the day down around £15.
But then I look at my bankroll and I'm nearly £100 up still from a weekend where I didn't exactly put in huge volume... so can't exactly be too down on myself!
Friday night I felt absolutely in the zone and made some enjoyable hero calls and (what I believe were) hero folds. Helped that there weren't exactly world beaters at some of my tables, but a sweet feeling all the same.
I think this is possibly my biggest single pot loss on Sky, but can console myself that I don't think I played the hand poorly. The villain had been very tight in my time at the table whereas I'd benefitted from being in position vs the weakest player and had been opening and three betting a lot (by my standards). The worst part was that the weak players had just all left the table and I was thinking about quitting anyway, but gave it 'one last orbit'... doh!
Can't grumble though, it was my turn to bad beat someone with 22 earlier at the table when we both flopped sets and I doubled up.
Only good part was a few quid profit after post-Moyes United easily covered the handicap and yesterday's results increased the odds of Liverpool not winning the title... here's hoping that Citeh don't go and throw it away, again.
Poker Player
Forgot to add that I enjoyed my standard monthly wander to town to grab Poker Player mag and read over a coffee.
Good article by Simon Hemsworth (I think?) about playing 'awkward' AK/AQ and JJ type hands... think this proved a help over the weekend.
Also a useful thinking piece on bluffing calling stations, well timed as I was mulling over my play against these oppos last week and thinking about how I could do more than just waiting for hands and full-potting for value!
Always a good way to waste a couple of quid. They still haven't printed my question for Sofia Lovgren though.
In Response to Re: a little fish trying to out-swim the sharks... : Hi Vespa. Yeah normally a good game, Bournemouth have always seemed to play football 'the right way' from what I've seen of them the past few years. The last time I visited the Fitness First Arena (or whatever it was called at the time) was during our League 1 days. Was a bit odd as they seemed to have sold more tickets than they had seats, so there were loads of away fans stood/sat in the aisles and a 90-minute long argument with stewards that we had to take seats (that didn't exist). Also nearly lost my head in exchange for the half time pie - the shutters just auto came down dead on 4pm while I was leaning on the counter... that nearly caused another battle between fans and officials as loads of people had their money / beer / pie the other side of the shutters. Don't really fancy us in this one tbh, but then we always like to make things as painful as possible... so will probably fluke a win in order to set up a far greater disappointment vs Brighton or Derby Posted by shakinaces
Aye great result for you mob... shame you can't quite make the play-offs as I can't really support any of the teams in the 4 spots currently... 3 lots of parachute payment-funded strong squads and the sheep... ah well... as long as we still have derby days next season, good luck to one of the 3 rich kids getting back to the promised land
Probably should have been higher, got suckered again a few times when an oppo obviously had flopped trips but I paid them off with an overpair.
Wasn't the longest of sessions but seemed to be more active than other recent games, lots of three-betting and even the odd four-bet bluff. Not sure how clever it is to be doing this at micro cash, but it does make things fun
Re the hand below - I had this exact same position on the flop on two tables last night - alas I (over) hit on the one where I was playing for about £3 and completely whiffed the one where I was stacked for £10 - **** you variance!
Another one... I can't believe how many of these have occurred at my tables in the last year!
Well that was just plain car crash stuff yesterday, guess I was due one of those to drag me back down to earth!
I've played worse and won recently. just one of those days where everyone hit when I got it in, happened to have the nuts when ever I tried to bluff my was to winning pots and all the flops seemed to be the sort of 9TJ that either made my good hands look weak or completely missed my speculative hands.
Ah well, next time!!
Daft part is, I don't even recall any hands that were obvious learning points to chuck at Lambert's generous coaching offer, but will have a look back over some of the spots to double check.
I don't have poker spreadsheets at work, but a small + on the final day sees me nicely up for the month and, I guess more importantly, the poker points being well in excess of 2k is a good barometer of having played a good wedge this month.
Between a couple of micro videos and lots of re-reads of poker player strategy sections + hand posting in the poker clinic and occasional online poker strat article has hopefully started to tweak my game and the positive month reflects that.
Am starting to now collate some hands together to run through with Lambert in the next couple of weeks. Trying to find generic spots as much as possible which will hopefully remove a few -EV spots from my game.
One more time...
I played this poorly and got lucky... but yet another RF... mental! (was kicking about at NL4 for a bit because there were zero seats at anything higher unless I fast-tracked to like NL40!)
Not me, but made me chuckle at the tables last night...
ChatBoxWarrior had been going crazy over a 60p pot they'd lost "too many lucky **** on this fixed site" being one of the many articulate and well thought comments popping up in the chatbox, simulatenously while playing out this hand.... lots more bile spewing about after the flop... then kindly letting us know all money would be withdrawn to move to another site (good luck with that!)
I might have to start being more moany in the chatbox, just in case!
Nothing much to add. Haven't played a huge amount, but when I have it has continued to see the monies leak from my roll!
On more than one occasion it has gotten to the point that I've felt it better to shut down and go and strip more 1970s wallpaper from my house. I've never tried the other, but think wallpaper stripping must be more boring than watching paint dry.
Gonna need to work on this poker though... turns out 100+ year old walls don't look so good... any plasterers that happen upon this thread and can do a SkyPoker discount rate, please get in touch
Very little poker in the next week. Stag party in Bristol starts in a couple of hours, birthday party in London to get to for Monday then two mental days of work before a Thursday night party at Gleneagles / hangover nursing on the plane back Friday. As well as plasterers, anyone with a spare liver, I encourage you to get in touch!
No updates, just been destroying my body and now needing a couple of days of water and healthier food. At a guess, the terrible diet of the last 4 days will have a negative impact on my poker.
I'll test that theory when I take a break in paper stripping to spin an hour of cash tonight and look to pick up 2 more spots to throw onto the BBV section for Mr Lambert180 to have a look over.
If you happen upon this post Paul, my 8 hands will make their way on to the boards at some point tomorrow. Probably early evening, given I should probably be wholly focussed on various work based presentations during the daytime (joy).
Very little poker playing since the last post. After the stag / birthday party weekend last, I had a short stop at Gleneagles last week and had no inclination to think about firing up the laptop in place of enjoying the amenities up there!
The few short sessions I did fit in during breaks from DIY were incredibly depressing and made me wish I'd stuck to the decorating!! Very much a mixture of poor play and poor timing, running aces into sets as often as I was trying to push through a bluff and getting called down by 4th pair.
I think I need to seriously revisit how aggressive I play hands as I must have gotten TOO loose and need to rebalance back to my nitty tendancies. Consider giving up all flops with zero equity (ie stop cbetting completely when I whiff) and reduce my opening hands from button and cutoff significantly (I already play very tight in early position, a hangover from my poker career starting at 10-max tables), as well as cutting out turn and river barrels - as it seems people see me as a maniac and I'm therefore going to get looked up by any pair / some A-high hands.
The flip side, if I do play super-snug it hopefully gets me paid off quite regularly for the next few weeks!
Another very sigh night, even though I held back from pushing my luck with big turn / river bluffs and stuck to playing tighter hands.
Maybe I was being bullied, but was getting 3 bet pre and c/r on flops by otherwise passive players and making lots (possibly too many) sigh folds.
That said, playing so tight was pretty much keeping me break-even in the main. The big dip coming after I got it all in on the flop with middle set (vs AA) only for the turn to bring an ace.
With the losses approaching nearly 20 NL10 BIs since my bankroll peaked a couple of weeks back, the mental side of things is definitely being tested! Will continue to review hands and go back over some basic strat articles before powering on through - I must be due a session soon where I don't make too many noddy errors / fluke some pots
Bankroll £712.05 - pts 319 (May has been way too busy away from Poker!)
I feared it was going to be another drip-drip-drip of a session last night, but a double up at NL8 when I already had chipped up to over £16 from smaller pots was just enough to see my mark a small profit for the first time in several days (inner whoop!)
The second hand of the night made me worry that my judgement may be a little off again, it always feels light getting it in pre with JJ when you have committed so little to the pot at that stage - especially when recent history tells me that people at these levels just love to do this with monsters
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
shakinaces
Small blind
£0.05
£0.05
£4.95
xxx
Big blind
£0.05
£0.10
£4.00
Your hole cards
J
J
wallace227
Fold
shakinaces
Raise
£0.15
£0.25
£4.80
xxx
All-in
£4.00
£4.25
£0.00
shakinaces
Call
£3.85
£8.10
£0.95
shakinaces
Show
J
J
xxx
Show
A
A
Flop
10
6
4
Turn
9
River
2
xxx
Win
Pair of Aces
£7.49
£7.49
I pretty much insta-called, but maybe should learn to give it a bit more thought unless I'm sat there with at least KK myself.
Then the other two bigger hits were the one bluff I tried all night, cleverly picking the time the button actually had the goods (doh). They'd opened most times it was folded to them so weren't playing a super-tight range... maybe if I'd braved the third barrel (which I'm trying to stop doing!) it may have got a fold, with any J a reasonable part of my range?
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
shakinaces
Small blind
£0.05
£0.05
£12.21
KoperKys
Big blind
£0.10
£0.15
£10.37
Your hole cards
2
2
elbows7
Fold
mousieboy1
Fold
xxx
Raise
£0.30
£0.45
£24.78
shakinaces
Call
£0.25
£0.70
£11.96
KoperKys
Fold
Flop
8
Q
9
shakinaces
Check
xxx
Bet
£0.35
£1.05
£24.43
shakinaces
Raise
£1.00
£2.05
£10.96
xxx
Call
£0.65
£2.70
£23.78
Turn
A
shakinaces
Bet
£1.60
£4.30
£9.36
xxx
Call
£1.60
£5.90
£22.18
River
10
shakinaces
Check
xxx
Check
shakinaces
Show
2
2
xxx
Show
K
K
xxx
Win
Pair of Kings
£5.45
£27.63
Then the other hand I physically slapped myself for lol - should have folded pre. Shouldn't have gotten it in on flop. Apart from the hand they did have, there was also a pretty big chance that they had a rag Adxd which would have left me drawing just as thin.
Player
Action
Cards
Amount
Pot
Balance
shakinaces
Small blind
£0.05
£0.05
£9.95
xxx
Big blind
£0.10
£0.15
£16.59
denton2332
Big blind
£0.10
£0.25
£7.90
Your hole cards
9
K
denton2332
Check
2scoops43
Call
£0.10
£0.35
£11.22
lurcha
Call
£0.10
£0.45
£21.91
shakinaces
Call
£0.05
£0.50
£9.90
xxx
Check
Flop
10
7
8
shakinaces
Check
xxx
Bet
£0.30
£0.80
£16.29
denton2332
Fold
2scoops43
Call
£0.30
£1.10
£10.92
lurcha
Fold
shakinaces
Raise
£1.30
£2.40
£8.60
elbows7
Raise
£3.50
£5.90
£12.79
2scoops43
Fold
shakinaces
All-in
£8.60
£14.50
£0.00
xxx
Call
£6.10
£20.60
£6.69
shakinaces
Show
9
K
xxx
Show
9
J
Turn
10
River
6
xxx
Win
Straight to the Jack
£19.25
£25.94
Aside from these, everyone seemed to have the nuts all the time lol... unless the game has just madly changed in the past couple of weeks. The amount of time I was getting 3b pre or c/r on flop was unreal. Part of me thinks I'm being exploited, most of me thinks that the general passiveness of most of the oppos mean that I'm always choosing to raise when someone has a monster / cbet everytime someone has smashed the flop
Cheers Alex - still not sure that hand 3 is just UL - not sure it is ever going to be a good long term ploy to flick in the extra money, out of position, with a hand that could easily end up dominated (like this) or not get paid (ie if the flop was same ranks, but all diamonds, the villain isn't going to double me up).
In short, I need to a) stop thinking it's OK to make up the small blind and b) stop going broke in limped pots!
Cheers Alex - still not sure that hand 3 is just UL - not sure it is ever going to be a good long term ploy to flick in the extra money, out of position, with a hand that could easily end up dominated (like this) or not get paid (ie if the flop was same ranks, but all diamonds, the villain isn't going to double me up). In short, I need to a) stop thinking it's OK to make up the small blind and b) stop going broke in limped pots! Posted by shakinaces
Even if your up against AA its pretty much a coin flip, i guess it depends if you fancy a gamble or no, i like gambling
Comments
And then...
Two other things I noticed which may need tweaks:
1) There are lots of pots where I raised pre, whiffed the flop but cbet, got called, checked a blank turn, folded to a river raise.
A lot of these were vs weaker players... I can't quite bring myself (yet) to station down with A-/K-high or underpair to the board too often, but maybe I need to.
I think I double (and triple) barrel more than most at these levels, but am not sure it's a sensible tactic with so many people happily calling to see out their draws. But perhaps I am just giving too much credit when I have no hand and face a pattern of call flop/check turn/bet river.
2) Slowing down on turn scare cards with stronger hands.
I get and use (in a fashion) the concept of bluffing/semi-bluffing turn cards when you have the initiative in the pot - ie raise pre, cbet flop, barrell turn when an A / K falls as most oppo will recognise you would likely have raised pre with one of these cards and are now less happy about their pocket 2s.
I wonder whether I need to recognise this in reverse when I have a big hand, ie set, 2 pr, or when I have actually improved with my AK/AQ hands etc - as I may be more likely to get value from my hand if I rep being scared of the card (as I would if I had pocket 10s, Js etc).
I do seem to have a lot of hands where I get one street of value and then lose my way en route to value town through being too greedy on the turn.
Obviously this isn't something I'd be trying if flush and/or straight draws were evolving on the board.
I wonder whether over the longer term this sort of approach may mean bigger wins to offset the times I allow them to hit a river that beats me.
Only a very short two-table session yesterday. Had a brief stint at an NL20 table due to there being an option to sit in position to two players I've played a bit at various micro levels from NL4-NL10 and couldn't really turn that down.
Left the table as soon as they were both felted (yeah, I'm a filthy bumhunter) as although I'd had some good cards vs the 3 regs at the table, I was evidently going to be the fish from that point and didn't fancy donating my winnings.
Had a great spot on the NL10 table I had running parallel, but things to do so broke even after a bit of an early loss on that table.
One hand that bemused me a little, in a good way, was how I got a fold here. Probably should have smooth called turn (in retrospect) but thought the oppo would be pot committed with c75% of stack in middle.
Notes suggested the donk would be an A or Q (most likely TP) so really surprised that it must have been a double barrell bluff to then fold for the last £6.90 with so much in the pot!
Yeah normally a good game, Bournemouth have always seemed to play football 'the right way' from what I've seen of them the past few years.
The last time I visited the Fitness First Arena (or whatever it was called at the time) was during our League 1 days. Was a bit odd as they seemed to have sold more tickets than they had seats, so there were loads of away fans stood/sat in the aisles and a 90-minute long argument with stewards that we had to take seats (that didn't exist).
Also nearly lost my head in exchange for the half time pie - the shutters just auto came down dead on 4pm while I was leaning on the counter... that nearly caused another battle between fans and officials as loads of people had their money / beer / pie the other side of the shutters.
Don't really fancy us in this one tbh, but then we always like to make things as painful as possible... so will probably fluke a win in order to set up a far greater disappointment vs Brighton or Derby
I'm a little disappointed updating this today, after never really getting going on Sunday and losing a big all-in during my brief one-table NL20 foray to end the day down around £15.
But then I look at my bankroll and I'm nearly £100 up still from a weekend where I didn't exactly put in huge volume... so can't exactly be too down on myself!
Friday night I felt absolutely in the zone and made some enjoyable hero calls and (what I believe were) hero folds. Helped that there weren't exactly world beaters at some of my tables, but a sweet feeling all the same.
I think this is possibly my biggest single pot loss on Sky, but can console myself that I don't think I played the hand poorly. The villain had been very tight in my time at the table whereas I'd benefitted from being in position vs the weakest player and had been opening and three betting a lot (by my standards). The worst part was that the weak players had just all left the table and I was thinking about quitting anyway, but gave it 'one last orbit'... doh!
Can't grumble though, it was my turn to bad beat someone with 22 earlier at the table when we both flopped sets and I doubled up.
Only good part was a few quid profit after post-Moyes United easily covered the handicap and yesterday's results increased the odds of Liverpool not winning the title... here's hoping that Citeh don't go and throw it away, again.
Poker Player
Forgot to add that I enjoyed my standard monthly wander to town to grab Poker Player mag and read over a coffee.
Good article by Simon Hemsworth (I think?) about playing 'awkward' AK/AQ and JJ type hands... think this proved a help over the weekend.
Also a useful thinking piece on bluffing calling stations, well timed as I was mulling over my play against these oppos last week and thinking about how I could do more than just waiting for hands and full-potting for value!
Always a good way to waste a couple of quid. They still haven't printed my question for Sofia Lovgren though.
Aye great result for you mob... shame you can't quite make the play-offs as I can't really support any of the teams in the 4 spots currently... 3 lots of parachute payment-funded strong squads and the sheep... ah well... as long as we still have derby days next season, good luck to one of the 3 rich kids getting back to the promised land
Probably should have been higher, got suckered again a few times when an oppo obviously had flopped trips but I paid them off with an overpair.
Wasn't the longest of sessions but seemed to be more active than other recent games, lots of three-betting and even the odd four-bet bluff. Not sure how clever it is to be doing this at micro cash, but it does make things fun
Re the hand below - I had this exact same position on the flop on two tables last night - alas I (over) hit on the one where I was playing for about £3 and completely whiffed the one where I was stacked for £10 - **** you variance!
Another one... I can't believe how many of these have occurred at my tables in the last year!
Well that was just plain car crash stuff yesterday, guess I was due one of those to drag me back down to earth!
I've played worse and won recently. just one of those days where everyone hit when I got it in, happened to have the nuts when ever I tried to bluff my was to winning pots and all the flops seemed to be the sort of 9TJ that either made my good hands look weak or completely missed my speculative hands.
Ah well, next time!!
Daft part is, I don't even recall any hands that were obvious learning points to chuck at Lambert's generous coaching offer, but will have a look back over some of the spots to double check.
This was the only time I wasn't a believer last night and got appropriately punished!
I don't have poker spreadsheets at work, but a small + on the final day sees me nicely up for the month and, I guess more importantly, the poker points being well in excess of 2k is a good barometer of having played a good wedge this month.
Between a couple of micro videos and lots of re-reads of poker player strategy sections + hand posting in the poker clinic and occasional online poker strat article has hopefully started to tweak my game and the positive month reflects that.
Am starting to now collate some hands together to run through with Lambert in the next couple of weeks. Trying to find generic spots as much as possible which will hopefully remove a few -EV spots from my game.
One more time...
I played this poorly and got lucky... but yet another RF... mental! (was kicking about at NL4 for a bit because there were zero seats at anything higher unless I fast-tracked to like NL40!)
Not me, but made me chuckle at the tables last night...
ChatBoxWarrior had been going crazy over a 60p pot they'd lost "too many lucky **** on this fixed site" being one of the many articulate and well thought comments popping up in the chatbox, simulatenously while playing out this hand.... lots more bile spewing about after the flop... then kindly letting us know all money would be withdrawn to move to another site (good luck with that!)
I might have to start being more moany in the chatbox, just in case!
No updates, just been destroying my body and now needing a couple of days of water and healthier food. At a guess, the terrible diet of the last 4 days will have a negative impact on my poker.
I'll test that theory when I take a break in paper stripping to spin an hour of cash tonight and look to pick up 2 more spots to throw onto the BBV section for Mr Lambert180 to have a look over.
If you happen upon this post Paul, my 8 hands will make their way on to the boards at some point tomorrow. Probably early evening, given I should probably be wholly focussed on various work based presentations during the daytime (joy).
Bankroll £719.83
Very little poker playing since the last post. After the stag / birthday party weekend last, I had a short stop at Gleneagles last week and had no inclination to think about firing up the laptop in place of enjoying the amenities up there!
The few short sessions I did fit in during breaks from DIY were incredibly depressing and made me wish I'd stuck to the decorating!! Very much a mixture of poor play and poor timing, running aces into sets as often as I was trying to push through a bluff and getting called down by 4th pair.
I think I need to seriously revisit how aggressive I play hands as I must have gotten TOO loose and need to rebalance back to my nitty tendancies. Consider giving up all flops with zero equity (ie stop cbetting completely when I whiff) and reduce my opening hands from button and cutoff significantly (I already play very tight in early position, a hangover from my poker career starting at 10-max tables), as well as cutting out turn and river barrels - as it seems people see me as a maniac and I'm therefore going to get looked up by any pair / some A-high hands.
The flip side, if I do play super-snug it hopefully gets me paid off quite regularly for the next few weeks!
Another very sigh night, even though I held back from pushing my luck with big turn / river bluffs and stuck to playing tighter hands.
Maybe I was being bullied, but was getting 3 bet pre and c/r on flops by otherwise passive players and making lots (possibly too many) sigh folds.
That said, playing so tight was pretty much keeping me break-even in the main. The big dip coming after I got it all in on the flop with middle set (vs AA) only for the turn to bring an ace.
With the losses approaching nearly 20 NL10 BIs since my bankroll peaked a couple of weeks back, the mental side of things is definitely being tested! Will continue to review hands and go back over some basic strat articles before powering on through - I must be due a session soon where I don't make too many noddy errors / fluke some pots
I feared it was going to be another drip-drip-drip of a session last night, but a double up at NL8 when I already had chipped up to over £16 from smaller pots was just enough to see my mark a small profit for the first time in several days (inner whoop!)
The second hand of the night made me worry that my judgement may be a little off again, it always feels light getting it in pre with JJ when you have committed so little to the pot at that stage - especially when recent history tells me that people at these levels just love to do this with monsters
Then the other two bigger hits were the one bluff I tried all night, cleverly picking the time the button actually had the goods (doh). They'd opened most times it was folded to them so weren't playing a super-tight range... maybe if I'd braved the third barrel (which I'm trying to stop doing!) it may have got a fold, with any J a reasonable part of my range?
In short, I need to a) stop thinking it's OK to make up the small blind and b) stop going broke in limped pots!