Either shove or fold. But since you have played it you may have to find the fold after the all in. As usually they have hit there 7, have a over pair or hit a set. But in this case its even worse at they have hit a straight. By betting 100 you are showing weakness. Posted by stuarty117
yes, think the shove or fold is good. not really feeling it y'day & really shouldn't have been playing Stuart. anyway, i was never folding here not even against a 7 as I'm still up & down & can hit a 6 so around 11 outs x2 =44% the fact that this player called with 63 shows he could have had just about any 2 which is how it goes sometimes. another thing I am learning about right now playing the £5's specifically is about the 'grey area,' that is the bit in-between the obvious black & white straightforward decisions which we all know about without even thinking. playing very abc is fine, but for me anyway I have found doesn't win at the £5's, so I have been experimenting with different ideas & trying out new plays...as here, which may or may not always work. you have to take a few more chances I have found especially on the bubble, which again sometimes work, sometimes don't, hence maybe my 18 run winning streak...which may be followed by an 18 run losing streak, who knows. The one thing I do know though is abc doesn't work here for me anyway,so I guess I will continue looking for those new plays to work on, & obviously will make some mistakes along the way. I have bad days like everyone does & y'day was one, but at least I learnt something from it & didn't go chasing either, as I would have done a little while ago.
made this call which gave me my last £5 game win. not sure if it is mathematically correct or not. this was my chance to knock player x out & cash. had I folded I would have been small stack. my gut feeling was to insta call so I did. I would have folded here 3-4 months ago before moving up to the £5 level, & shows how my game & thinking has changed/impoved hopefully. I wonder if you would have called here? Posted by devonfish5
H Dev
Im far from an expert and I'm sure someone will say m wrong but I'm not sure about the call on this one, to my mind it's much better to push with K8 than be the caller, against this hand we r roughly 45%, if we put a range on him are we ever really going to be much more than 50%? I'm assuming for us to be profitable we need to be at least 55%+. I know if we don't call we are the short stack but I think we can wait and find a better spot and be the aggressor. Like I sad I'm not an expert and I may be talking rubbish but the hand made me think about what I would do.
Great diary and I admire your determination to reach your goals. Pretty sure I couldn't grind out the result like u do. Might see u on the DYM's at some point.
In Response to Re: £40 to £1,040.... dev's 2nd DYM challenge.(current b/r £708.07).... profit from £5 games...+£91.50 : H Dev Im far from an expert and I'm sure someone will say m wrong but I'm not sure about the call on this one, to my mind it's much better to push with K8 than be the caller, against this hand we r roughly 45%, if we put a range on him are we ever really going to be much more than 50%? I'm assuming for us to be profitable we need to be at least 55%+. I know if we don't call we are the short stack but I think we can wait and find a better spot and be the aggressor. Like I sad I'm not an expert and I may be talking rubbish but the hand made me think about what I would do. Great diary and I admire your determination to reach your goals. Pretty sure I couldn't grind out the result like u do. Might see u on the DYM's at some point. Posted by omm
Thank you omm, yeah, it's not everyone's idea of a good call I guess, but with only 3.5 bb's & on the sm blind next hand if I pass here, there is no guarantee of finding a better hand to go with. yes I can bluff but with only 3 bb's left that itself is a risk & getting called now we are never in good shape. sometimes, not always we have to take a risk & knocking a player out to cash is always a good risk, imo. I have passed in similar spots to this & regretted it, so now I don't as much, but like everything it is all done in moderation & mixing up our play is never a bad thing, if not we can become predictable & exploitable, imo. we can't always expect the others to do our dirty work for us either, which would be nice obviously, & as always I go with my gut feeling at the time, & here it said call. best wishes, dev
In Response to Re: £40 to £1,040.... dev's 2nd DYM challenge.(current b/r £708.07).... profit from £5 games...+£91.50 : H Dev Im far from an expert and I'm sure someone will say m wrong but I'm not sure about the call on this one, to my mind it's much better to push with K8 than be the caller, against this hand we r roughly 45%, if we put a range on him are we ever really going to be much more than 50%? I'm assuming for us to be profitable we need to be at least 55%+. I know if we don't call we are the short stack but I think we can wait and find a better spot and be the aggressor. Like I sad I'm not an expert and I may be talking rubbish but the hand made me think about what I would do. Great diary and I admire your determination to reach your goals. Pretty sure I couldn't grind out the result like u do. Might see u on the DYM's at some point. Posted by omm
been thinking about this my self y'day. we need to look at the big picture... yes we need to win 55% of all games to break even, so let's say we aim to win 60% of all games & become a winning player. so we need to reach the bubble & win 60 times from 100 games, (apart from the odd game with 5 players left & 2 get knocked out together, so there is no bubble) we know with 4 players on the bubble we are going to win 3 times from 4 (statistically) so we need to make the bubble 80 times from 100 games to win those 60 times..yes. so we are going to lose 20 times from 80 on the bubble... this k8 hand is possibly going to be one of those 20 times we lose if it's a 50/50 win for arguments sake, & if we lose yes it becomes one of the 20 expected losing hands/games for us. if we win it though(as I did), then it is a bonus for us & we then are in a good position as we can now afford to lose our next 50/50 at no extra loss. it's complicated & I'm only just getting to grips with it myself,but basically we are not facing this K8 situation 100 times in a row, where we would need to win it 55% of the time to break even we are facing this hand in the context of our normal 100 game cycle where we are just looking for the 60% total game wins. I'm still working on it & I know what I am trying to convey, it's probably not coming across that well but it all makes sense to me anyway, ha ha.
So you ask for advice, get advice, then dismiss advice? If you're happy with your decision then I can't see the point in posting the hand. Hi Dev Posted by hhyftrftdr
I didn't ask for advice i just said I wonder how many of you would call here? simply curious, that's all.... a simple yes or no would do. of course i'm happy with my decision i won didn't i? i posted the hand to show how my game & thinking is changing and adapting to life at the £5 level in particular. if i needed any advice on this hand or any other i would post it in the poker clinic, then you Stuart & all the others can rip it apart put it back together again in your own inimitable ways & tell me exactly how badly I played it & all feel wonderful about yourselves, even those players that don't have a clue about dym bubble play. oh...did i mention i won it -:)
WON £7.20 B/R £707.07 PTS 67 £5 GAMES W 1 L 0 TOTAL W 323 L 247 PROFIT +£95.00
better session card dead early doors on both tables but as always it's not how you start but finish. even won a £3 game so should keep hhy happy for 2 minutes -:) getting close to my £5 game £100 profit target which I have been after for ages now it seems, but like all good things it's worth the wait.
Sorry if you feel i rip your hands apart. I honestly dont think i do. I have on commented on your hands because i am a daily reader and have been enjoying your posts. This is because your dairy is interesting and is helping myself become better at dyms. Also when you are at my tables we always have a chat and its a great game to play on your table always fun and interesting.
I, like you just love dyms and love to talk about all the different ways hands can be played. I have only recently made posts about hands as i lack confidence on commenting on hands.
But i have only put down how i would play the hands. I think i have only commented 2 or 3 times on the all hands you have posted.
Again goodluck in your challenge and hope to see you get to the £1000
In Response to Re: £40 to £1,040.... dev's 2nd DYM challenge.(current b/r £699.87).... profit from £5 games...+£90.50 : I didn't ask for advice i just said I wonder how many of you would call here? simply curious, that's all.... a simple yes or no would do. of course i'm happy with my decision i won didn't i? i posted the hand to show how my game & thinking is changing and adapting to life at the £5 level in particular. if i needed any advice on this hand or any other i would post it in the poker clinic, then you Stuart & all the others can rip it apart put it back together again in your own inimitable ways & tell me exactly how badly I played it & all feel wonderful about yourselves, even those players that don't have a clue about dym bubble play. oh...did i mention i won it -:) Posted by devonfish5
Hi Dev Sorry if you feel i rip your hands apart. I honestly dont think i do. I have on commented on your hands because i am a daily reader and have been enjoying your posts. This is because your dairy is interesting and is helping myself become better at dyms. Also when you are at my tables we always have a chat and its a great game to play on your table always fun and interesting. I, like you just love dyms and love to talk about all the different ways hands can be played. I have only recently made posts about hands as i lack confidence on commenting on hands. But i have only put down how i would play the hands. I think i have only commented 2 or 3 times on the all hands you have posted. Again goodluck in your challenge and hope to see you get to the £1000 Posted by stuarty117
no worries Stuart, agree that talking about hands is good, just seems like you & hhy are constantly at war with how i play them & my thinking behind them, so i guess we will always have to agree to disagree on how we see it. as we are both winning players so that is the main thing. I asked you some time ago about posting hands via PM to discuss & that offer is always there. doing it here or in the poker clinic brings in all the other idiots that i have no reason to talk to..no names.
In Response to Re: £40 to £1,040.... dev's 2nd DYM challenge.(current b/r £699.87).... profit from £5 games...+£90.50 : Results orientated thinking. Good to see smug Dev back, missed him Posted by hhyftrftdr
didn't think you would be away for long -:) so you would have folded not got a better chance & not cashed..probably!!! .. vwp -:)
I need to have a deeper think on that k8 hand. The discussion seems to be focussing on whether it is right to take a flip or generally call to shoves with that hand ignoring the fact you had 300 invested and the relative stacks.
As you have observed dev the shoving ranges widen from good players on the bubble and they are concious of blinds and stack dynamics.
The 3bb shortie open shoving has a huge range. With your 300 invested i think its a good call and your feel based on playing lots of games is good. I am more of a feel player but it is always good to step back and check whether instincts are mathenatically profitable long term. I dont think your maths explanation is as good as your feel explanation dev. An icm crunch would help here.
As for the spat with hhy. Be nice and respectful to each other please i like you both and want to interract with you both and not feel in a position of taking sides.
I need to have a deeper think on that k8 hand. The discussion seems to be focussing on whether it is right to take a flip or generally call to shoves with that hand ignoring the fact you had 300 invested and the relative stacks. As you have observed dev the shoving ranges widen from good players on the bubble and they are concious of blinds and stack dynamics. The 3bb shortie open shoving has a huge range. With your 300 invested i think its a good call and your feel based on playing lots of games is good. I am more of a feel player but it is always good to step back and check whether instincts are mathenatically profitable long term. I dont think your maths explanation is as good as your feel explanation dev. An icm crunch would help here. As for the spat with hhy. Be nice and respectful to each other please i like you both and want to interract with you both and not feel in a position of taking sides. Posted by Phantom66
cheers Phantom, (you only get 15 sec's when playing mind, ha ha) yeah the day hhy starts acting in a grown up manner so will I. I think he has the odd good post now & again, but most of the time is just out to wind me up & get a reaction, which I will oblige with when i'm in the mood & can be bothered. he doesn't even play dym's but the way he posts here half the time you'd think he was a grandmaster or summin -:) anyway, it's up to him how he behaves & that is out of my control. tbf he has made an effort the past few days but will it continue? yeah, again the maths thing is a bit wishy washy, but I know what I mean & think so that's all that matters. if people want to come here & give me their take on things that's fine, i'm happy to hear what people think, just don't think it's received so well when it's the other way around that's all, & afterall this is my diary, so I am pretty much entitled to have my point of view I think. people are quick to judge my play & thoughts almost always without exception in a negative way, even though i'm a winning player, which i find interesting, maybe i'm simply playing & thinking a different way 'outside of the box' if you like & it's a bit to radical for you all, I don't know, but there's definitely a sense of me v the rest here, well that's how I feel anyway. anyway, this to & fro is going to continue know doubt so if people can put their points of view across in a positive way & without all the b*lls**t that goes with it, I might also respond in a similar way, not that it will be received well by most of you anyway, going by recent posts. i know most of you mean well so i'll take your posts in the spirit i assume they are intended. Gran23 you are one of the few who always supports me know matter what is going on, & your support is especially appreciated, ty.(even though your posts have disapeared...I'm sure you must have your reasons) there are a few others too, so ty also. I'll get from A to B know matter what, & what happens in between is just a bit of banter both good & not so good. The end result is the only thing that really matters & the reason I started this challenge/diary to begin with. Winning at the £5 level is everything right now & sets up even more opportunities for me in the future. I never came here to make friends neither did I come here to fall out with any of you. I hope that some friendships & rivalries even, have begun & will continue long after this is all over. If I've upset anyone then that's too bad, there must have been a reason behind it. ok, I'll offer an apology if that helps to make you feel better. -:)
I respect anyone who takes the time to post a diary and anyone who contributes to the clinic / diaries to offer advice.
I'll not derail your diary with the pros and cons of specific contributors Dev. It's your diary so you are free to express your opinion here. I'll maybe say something in my own diary.
This community and its interactions - including the show - the excellent work Tikay does to keep the community and the suits in touch with each others views - is what keeps me on sky poker and long may it continue.
Please keep contributing Dev, I'll certainly keep reading, and posting if I think I can add anything and GL with your challenge.
I respect anyone who takes the time to post a diary and anyone who contributes to the clinic / diaries to offer advice. I'll not derail your diary with the pros and cons of specific contributors Dev. It's your diary so you are free to express your opinion here. I'll maybe say something in my own diary. This community and its interactions - including the show - the excellent work Tikay does to keep the community and the suits in touch with each others views - is what keeps me on sky poker and long may it continue. Please keep contributing Dev, I'll certainly keep reading, and posting if I think I can add anything and GL with your challenge. Posted by Phantom66
Comments
you've heard of the X faxtor no doubt...
I call this the Y factor...why the **** did I do that -:)
not really feeling it y'day & really shouldn't have been playing Stuart.
anyway, i was never folding here not even against a 7 as I'm still up & down & can hit a 6 so around 11 outs x2 =44%
the fact that this player called with 63 shows he could have had just about any 2 which is how it goes sometimes.
another thing I am learning about right now playing the £5's specifically is about the 'grey area,' that is the bit in-between the obvious black & white straightforward decisions which we all know about without even thinking.
playing very abc is fine, but for me anyway I have found doesn't win at the £5's, so I have been experimenting with different ideas & trying out new plays...as here, which may or may not always work.
you have to take a few more chances I have found especially on the bubble, which again sometimes work, sometimes don't, hence maybe my 18 run winning streak...which may be followed by an 18 run losing streak, who knows.
The one thing I do know though is abc doesn't work here for me anyway,so I guess I will continue looking for those new plays to work on, & obviously will make some mistakes along the way.
I have bad days like everyone does & y'day was one, but at least I learnt something from it & didn't go chasing either, as I would have done a little while ago.
1x£5 & 3x£3..
WON £0.60 B/R £699.87 PTS 59 £5 GAMES W 1 L 0 TOTAL W 322 L 247 PROFIT +£90.50
did plan on playing more games but lost internet for about 5 mins so decided not to.
anyway, got the £5 win so all ends ok.
my £700 b/r says I'm doing ok -:)
yeah, it's not everyone's idea of a good call I guess, but with only 3.5 bb's & on the sm blind next hand if I pass here, there is no guarantee of finding a better hand to go with.
yes I can bluff but with only 3 bb's left that itself is a risk & getting called now we are never in good shape.
sometimes, not always we have to take a risk & knocking a player out to cash is always a good risk, imo.
I have passed in similar spots to this & regretted it, so now I don't as much, but like everything it is all done in moderation & mixing up our play is never a bad thing, if not we can become predictable & exploitable, imo.
we can't always expect the others to do our dirty work for us either, which would be nice obviously, & as always I go with my gut feeling at the time, & here it said call.
best wishes,
dev
we need to look at the big picture...
yes we need to win 55% of all games to break even, so let's say we aim to win 60% of all games & become a winning player.
so we need to reach the bubble & win 60 times from 100 games, (apart from the odd game with 5 players left & 2 get knocked out together, so there is no bubble)
we know with 4 players on the bubble we are going to win 3 times from 4 (statistically)
so we need to make the bubble 80 times from 100 games to win those 60 times..yes.
so we are going to lose 20 times from 80 on the bubble...
this k8 hand is possibly going to be one of those 20 times we lose
if it's a 50/50 win for arguments sake, & if we lose yes it becomes one of the 20 expected losing hands/games for us.
if we win it though(as I did), then it is a bonus for us & we then are in a good position as we can now afford to lose our next 50/50 at no extra loss.
it's complicated & I'm only just getting to grips with it myself,but basically we are not facing this K8 situation 100 times in a row, where we would need to win it 55% of the time to break even
we are facing this hand in the context of our normal 100 game cycle where we are just looking for the 60% total game wins.
I'm still working on it & I know what I am trying to convey, it's probably not coming across that well but it all makes sense to me anyway, ha ha.
If you're happy with your decision then I can't see the point in posting the hand.
Hi Dev
simply curious, that's all....
a simple yes or no would do.
of course i'm happy with my decision i won didn't i?
i posted the hand to show how my game & thinking is changing and adapting to life at the £5 level in particular.
if i needed any advice on this hand or any other i would post it in the poker clinic, then you Stuart & all the others can rip it apart put it back together again in your own inimitable ways & tell me exactly how badly I played it & all feel wonderful about yourselves, even those players that don't have a clue about dym bubble play.
oh...did i mention i won it -:)
1x£5 & 1x£3
WON £7.20 B/R £707.07 PTS 67 £5 GAMES W 1 L 0 TOTAL W 323 L 247 PROFIT +£95.00
better session card dead early doors on both tables but as always it's not how you start but finish.
even won a £3 game so should keep hhy happy for 2 minutes -:)
getting close to my £5 game £100 profit target which I have been after for ages now it seems, but like all good things it's worth the wait.
Good to see smug Dev back, missed him
agree that talking about hands is good, just seems like you & hhy are constantly at war with how i play them & my thinking behind them, so i guess we will always have to agree to disagree on how we see it.
as we are both winning players so that is the main thing.
I asked you some time ago about posting hands via PM to discuss & that offer is always there.
doing it here or in the poker clinic brings in all the other idiots that i have no reason to talk to..no names.
so you would have folded not got a better chance & not cashed..probably!!! .. vwp -:)
(you only get 15 sec's when playing mind, ha ha)
yeah the day hhy starts acting in a grown up manner so will I.
I think he has the odd good post now & again, but most of the time is just out to wind me up & get a reaction, which I will oblige with when i'm in the mood & can be bothered.
he doesn't even play dym's but the way he posts here half the time you'd think he was a grandmaster or summin -:)
anyway, it's up to him how he behaves & that is out of my control. tbf he has made an effort the past few days but will it continue?
yeah, again the maths thing is a bit wishy washy, but I know what I mean & think so that's all that matters.
if people want to come here & give me their take on things that's fine, i'm happy to hear what people think, just don't think it's received so well when it's the other way around that's all, & afterall this is my diary, so I am pretty much entitled to have my point of view I think.
people are quick to judge my play & thoughts almost always without exception in a negative way, even though i'm a winning player, which i find interesting, maybe i'm simply playing & thinking a different way 'outside of the box' if you like & it's a bit to radical for you all, I don't know, but there's definitely a sense of me v the rest here, well that's how I feel anyway.
anyway, this to & fro is going to continue know doubt so if people can put their points of view across in a positive way & without all the b*lls**t that goes with it, I might also respond in a similar way, not that it will be received well by most of you anyway, going by recent posts.
i know most of you mean well so i'll take your posts in the spirit i assume they are intended.
Gran23 you are one of the few who always supports me know matter what is going on, & your support is especially appreciated, ty.(even though your posts have disapeared...I'm sure you must have your reasons)
there are a few others too, so ty also.
I'll get from A to B know matter what, & what happens in between is just a bit of banter both good & not so good.
The end result is the only thing that really matters & the reason I started this challenge/diary to begin with.
Winning at the £5 level is everything right now & sets up even more opportunities for me in the future.
I never came here to make friends neither did I come here to fall out with any of you.
I hope that some friendships & rivalries even, have begun & will continue long after this is all over.
If I've upset anyone then that's too bad, there must have been a reason behind it.
ok, I'll offer an apology if that helps to make you feel better. -:)
have a good weekend,
dev
Have a great weekend.
PS, post more hands please