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Oh my god he's done it again.........some questions

profman15profman15 Member Posts: 1,808
edited July 2014 in The Football Corner
1. Done what? 
2. Who did it?
3. Will Brendan say he's a changed man as earlier I last year?
4. Will Reds supporters stay silent?
5. Will the Red supporters continue to ignore this disgusting behaviour as long as the net is hit frequently?

PS I did predict that this would happen again once life became less roses for this chap when Brendan made his rediculous comments.......

And yes Dohhhhhh it is a Blue who is writing this and one who wouldn't have accepted this guy in my team after his earlier incident. The game should mean more than that IMO.
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    BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2014
    I'm a Liverpool fan. Football fans don't like the person, they like the player. Luis Suarez is an idiot that does stupid things. As a footballer, though, you can't help but admire his talent.

    With that said, his previous ten match ban was utterly absurd and totally out of kilter with the severity of the incident. Biting is definitely an unusual form of violent conduct, but to get a three match ban for elbowing somebody in the head and a ten match ban for biting someone's arm makes no sense. 

    In a few years a player will be killed by an elbow to the head or a kick to the chest and we'll look back and ask what the **** we were thinking.


    This incident isn't entirely clear yet and I'm reluctant to comment on it specifically until I see a picture from the front of the two players. 



    As for making it an issue of club loyalty, there are long lists of thugs and thieves that have played for each football club. Many have been deified by their respective fanbases. For every Luis Suarez there's a Duncan Ferguson.
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    pomfrittespomfrittes Member Posts: 2,981
    edited June 2014

      Very well said Mr Loner.


      P.S.   Should this be in Football corner,  just asking??
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    TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2014
    football doesnt measure by harm done.

    spitting in someone's face is seen as worse than punching them.

    biting is lower than spitting.

    it's not the harm but the snidyness and disgusting nature of penetrating an opponent with a part of your body [gotta be consensual, kids...] that causes outrage.

    ---

    he disgraced the last world cup with that ridiculous hand-ball and subsequent celebration when the penalty was saved.

    this is the THIRD time he has drew blood with those teeth.

    throw in the casual racism [and refusing a concillatory handshake]

    the overt diving and cheating

    and preening arrogance and you have the complete package.

    if he played like haji-diouf would livepool fans sing his name [if diouf played like suarez would they sing diouf's name]

    ---

    i live on the wirral [the posh part of merseyside where exliverpool players come to die]. i have loads of contact with liverpool fans.

    livepool fans are boss plebs. love their club but get upto ridiculous things like dressing as spansih cardinals and marching for rafa benitez or those toe-curlingly earnest banners featuring russel crowe quotes and cod latin.

    however their dignified campaign for truth and justice was and is incredible, they are proper fans and i love em like i'd love a geeky younger brother who dresses like batman and thinks he lives in gotham.

    and thats why it was incredibly sad to see liverpool fans defending this racist, cheating, biting scummer. that a teenage oldham player went off the anfield pitch in  tears after being racially abused during suarez's ban for racsim made me genuinely sad.

    suarez represents EVERYTHING that liverpool fans in all other areas stand AGAINST.

    sad if they continue to support him
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    splashiessplashies Member Posts: 3,680
    edited June 2014
    Suarez definitely deserves a forum ban
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    BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2014
    I think it's a bit of a stretch to make Suarez repsonsible for the words of a moron in the stands. 

    As for Football not measuring itself by harm done; you're right in a sense.

    Spitting is seen as worse than punching someone and biting is worse still. That is how things work in the football world. However that is not how things should be. Spitting is disgusting, punching is potentially lethal.


    However, when a footballer is killed on the pitch by an elbowing, punching or kicking incident similar to those we see many times every season, I very much doubt that the reprecussions will be a mere three match ban.

    If we want to avoid people dying, perhaps genuinely dangerous acts should be tackled harder than disgusting ones. 



    I was watching the match so I've already seen the angle from behind the two players many times. As I said earlier, I'll wait to see a shot from the other side. With all the TV cameras and photographers at matches, I assume something from that side will work it's way out, eventually.
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    DOHHHHHHHDOHHHHHHH Member Posts: 17,928
    edited June 2014
    Haven't read the full OP or replies yet.

    But it's just weird. vvvvvvv weird.
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    day4eire76day4eire76 Member Posts: 912
    edited June 2014
    The whole post is just LOL.
    We had this very same nonsense before.
    The day England play there last game  an Everton fan posts about a Liverpool players behaviour on international duty.
    The same poster blamed all the Liverpool players about Englands defeat v Uruaguay  aswell.
    First thing first there is no defence to what he did.
    But as I pointed out to you before I can go through just about every other team in England and point out some things players have done which is much worse.
    Manslaughter r**e domestic abuse ending players careers its a long list.
    As for your prediction about him doing something else mad wow do you know this weeks lotto numbers.
    The guy is a nutcase you dont need  to be mystic meg to know he was going to do something else in his career.








    In Response to Oh my god he's done it again.........some questions:
    1. Done what?  2. Who did it? 3. Will Brendan say he's a changed man as earlier I last year? 4. Will Reds supporters stay silent? 5. Will the Red supporters continue to ignore this disgusting behaviour as long as the net is hit frequently? PS I did predict that this would happen again once life became less roses for this chap when Brendan made his rediculous comments....... And yes Dohhhhhh it is a Blue who is writing this and one who wouldn't have accepted this guy in my team after his earlier incident. The game should mean more than that IMO.
    Posted by profman15
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    BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2014
    I should also add that I don't like to be lumped in with particular groups.

    I support Liverpool Football Club. I don't buy the shirts, I don't sing the songs, I don't go to the games. I enjoy watching football and the club I chose to support a long time ago. I don't know what a "boss pleb" is but I don't think I am one. I don't dress up as a cardinal and I don't march for Rafa Benitez. I don't celebrate the club's successes as though they are my own.


    The point I'm getting at is that swinging statements about groups and their opinions and behaviour undermine your ability to see them as numerous individuals. 



    I've no interest in defending Luis Suarez. If he bit Chiellini he deserves to be banned. If he didn't, then he doesn't.
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    TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2014
    i'm not saying that a player is responsible for every moron in the stands, but the culture amongst liverpool fans changed during suarez's ban for racially abusing a man u player. i heard comments that just would not have flown at any other time, from fans who prided themselves as being fair minded and above the basness of other fans. in fact on merseyside one of the biggest insults thrown at evertonians by liverpool fans was that of everton being a racist club, for racist fans. liverpool fans prided themselves on being enlightened. and they were.

    that was erdoed, and the support for suarez in unfathomable to me.

    ---

    you are right about one thing, though.

    when somebody is killed by another player,  that will, like, be well worse. innit.

    still doesnt make what suarez done, does, and will no doubt do again, any less repugnant.

    "If we want to avoid people dying, perhaps genuinely dangerous acts should be tackled harder than disgusting ones. "

    football doesnt really need to worry about people dying through maliciouys acts. i think shark attacks of the coast of wales probably outnumber the number of dead heaps strewing pitches following a bit of a needly match.

    biting, cheating and racism are all too common, however.

    and suarez exemplifies all three traits par excellance...

    ----

    re the boss plebs, like i  say i am surrounded my match going reds [generations of them]. they are brilliant people, great fans] no ground does atmosphere like anfield when it's in full swing. their hillsborough campain leaves me in total awe. and i love em. but my god are they meffs when they get into kopite mode.

    harmless and great fans, but meffs all the same.
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    BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2014
    As I say, it's not "Liverpool fans" making those comments. That would seem to make me responsible for them in some way. I'm no more responsible as a fan of a football club for another individual making a racist comment than Luis Suarez is. Stupid people do and say stupid things. They didn't need Luis Suarez's presence to form those views, though perhaps his behaviour prompted them to express those views at that particular moment.
     
    The only person responsible for my actions is me. The same is true of anyone else.


    The people that died at Hillsborough in '89 were only able to be vilified because they were viewed as "football fans" rather than as 96 individuals. "Football fans" were considered to behave and think in certain ways. Pigeon-holing those people allowed for the lies around the circumstances of their deaths to be easily accepted by the wider public.

    That pigeon-holing still occurs. I'm a Liverpool fan but I don't defend the indefensible. Perhaps others do but that doesn't mean that all Liverpool fans are responsible for those views. I want some sort of rational, proportionate response to this man's actions. 

    Disciplinary actions in football seem more about protecting the image of the game than the safety of the players. When someone dies, the individual that inflicts the killer blow will no doubt be vilified, banned for years (if not life) and possibly prosecuted in the courts. However, his action may have been no worse than those seen hundreds of times before - actions which have seen consequences of only a 3 match ban from playing. Yet an action with no real possibility of inflicting serious harm results in much more severe sanction.

    That is clearly absurd. Do we really need a death to occur before we recognise it?


    I will judge Luis Suarez by his actions. I have in the past. I don't judge him by his affiliations to any particular team, except for his performances on the pitch. I don't love him, I don't like him. I enjoy what he can do with a ball. I want to see him punished when he acts outside the rules. 

    I don't support the hysteria that surrounds particular pantomime villains in the game like Suarez or Balotelli. They should be judged by their actions but their actions should not be inflated by their persona. The fact Suarez is an arrogant, racist, self-involved jerk should not make a bite anywhere near as serious an offence as real dangerous actions.
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    BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2014
    With regards to how many players have been killed by on-pitch violence in the past, it's true to say that there have been few cases and none that I know of without performing further research.

    However, on-pitch violence would seem to be indistinguishable from street violence. A punch is a punch, regardless of where it occurs. It has baffled me for a long time why footballers or rugby players can get away without being arrested and charged by the police when they commit violet crimes on the playing field.


    There is a legal principle of accepted risk which suggests that if your leg is broken (or similar) in a football tackle, you accepted that risk when you got involved. You don't accept a risk of being punched in the head, though. It's not as though there isn't a clear recording of those incidents and there are hundreds of police officers around the ground, too.

    If anyone knows just why sportsmen are allowed to get away with this sort of thing without police action, post it up. I'm interested to know.
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    stuarty117stuarty117 Member Posts: 1,395
    edited June 2014
    Mr Loner

    You sure do like to write
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    TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2014
    melodrama much, lol.

    you dont need to patronise me. i am aware of generalisations, and use them deliberately and liberally in intelligent company. they are neccessary presumtion in any conversation where "liverpopol fans are meffs" is assumed shorthand for 'some of the liverpool fans around my area, but obviously not all, nor by implication, you, can, at times, be a bit meffy". it's a short cut to avoid tedium. ho hum

    pariticularly in a light-hearted convo about a panto prima-donna on a poker forum.

    i'm not accusing you of anything, brother. merely what i've observed in liverpool fans i know in real life, innit.

    you are right it may just take a death before we realise that a mere bite is worserer than death. but that's football fans, innit.

    now where did i put that banner that reads:

    "and when i lay my vengence upon thee, you will know my name is gerrard"?

    *whistles merrily*


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    BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2014
    I'm not making any attempt to patronise anyone. Of course generalisations are necessary in conversation. However, previous posts seem to imply that Suarez's actions were the cause of another person's actions in the stands. That's simply not a reasonable position to take. One is not the cause of the other, though it may have acted as a catalyst for it happening at that moment.

    Also as the idea of Liverpool fans' attitudes to certain things has been brought up, it clearly requires clarification that the views attributed to them are not the views I hold, as a declared Liverpool fan. The views generally considered to be representative of the ideas of a group, or even the majority of a group, are usually either those of some of the louder voices amongst those groups or merely those which the viewer wishes to focus on.

    So there are generalisations based upon known facts and then there are generalisations based upon one person's impressions or point of view. The latter have no value.
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    hhyftrftdrhhyftrftdr Member Posts: 8,036
    edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: Oh my god he's done it again.........some questions:
    I should also add that I don't like to be lumped in with particular groups. I support Liverpool Football Club. I don't buy the shirts, I don't sing the songs, I don't go to the games. I enjoy watching football and the club I chose to support a long time ago. I don't know what a "boss pleb" is but I don't think I am one. I don't dress up as a cardinal and I don't march for Rafa Benitez. I don't celebrate the club's successes as though they are my own. The point I'm getting at is that swinging statements about groups and their opinions and behaviour undermine your ability to see them as numerous individuals.  I've no interest in defending Luis Suarez. If he bit Chiellini he deserves to be banned. If he didn't, then he doesn't.
    Posted by BorinLoner
    So you're not really a Liverpool fan then? ;)
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    TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2014
    Just observations ive made, squire.

    The liverpool fans I know went from sneering at everton fans for supporting a racist club and associating with racist fans to making some vile comments about a black man united player merely because their hero was banned for repeatedly making racist slurs toward him. During the ban a black player left the anfield pitch in tears. I dont include you in that, I wouldn't think anyone would infer it so either.

    I dont think suarez is defensible,  and I think he represents values that liverpool fans usually rail against,  and rail against with with passion and dignity.

    But he has scored lots of goals, and at least he hasnt killed anyone... yet.


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    TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2014
    And if someone can explain why diouf has been excommunicated from anfield hearts yet suarez continues to to be held dear (even before todays bite) without refrence to their goals per game ratio then id be stunned.

    Football fans, lol.
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    BorinLonerBorinLoner Member Posts: 3,863
    edited June 2014
    In Response to Re: Oh my god he's done it again.........some questions:
    And if someone can explain why diouf has been excommunicated from anfield hearts yet suarez continues to to be held dear (even before todays bite) without refrence to their goals per game ratio then id be stunned. Football fans, lol.
    Posted by TeddyBloat
    Well, Suarez hasn't left yet. ;)
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    TeddyBloatTeddyBloat Member Posts: 1,419
    edited June 2014
    Touche, lol
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