In Response to Re: Compatability OF PT3 & HEM with Skys Downloadable Client : Hmmmmm....... Understand what your saying Dave but the HUD collects the info and presents it. You still have to make your own call on what to do with that info, as such would you not agree that the hud gives YOU the ability to enhance your game rather than does it for you? I'm in agreement that the software helps you play better (or why else would i want the site to be compatable with them) but not because it's making your decisions and playing for you (which seems to be some peoples view on these things) but because it can provide the info you need to improve your game. I guess we'll know soon enough which way sky have gone on this, and like i say i'll have no worries either way (so don't go expecting any I'm off threads in the near future lol) but i do hope they become available to use on here as i'd like to play more cash here. You don't offer an opinion on them Dave? Do you use them at other sites? do you like them? or do you consider them an unfair advantage to those not using them? (if your allowed to offer a view as an employee) Posted by ACESOVER8s
Aces,
I'm always able to offer an opinion, so long as people are always aware that these are *my* views and not always those of Sky Poker as a business/group/bunch of lovely people, etc. There's the disclaimer out of the way, so let me get stuck in here...
While you're spot on that the HUD collects and presents information, it's the end result of that presentation that 'enhances' your play. If you know from a guy's HUD stats that he's incapable of firing a third bullet without the nuts, you may well get away from hands that you would have called with otherwise.
If we take the steroid analogy that was used earlier in the thread, all steroids do is build your body up to be more able. You still have to put one leg in front of the other and *do* the running, in the same way you still have to press the buttons in online poker. What both steroids and something like PT or HEM allow you to do is make those actions more effectively.
As for my personal opinion on use of PT3 and HEM, I am actually in favour of it. I think it brings a new skill set to the table, namely being able to process that extra data and apply it in a game situation. However, I am also very sympathetic to those who think it is only one step away from cheating. It does give you an edge which some of your opponents don't have, but I believe that as long as all players are aware that the software is permitted on the site (if not encouraged), it is down to the individual player to then decide if they're happy playing against people who could be using them or if they want to move to one of those sites which doesnt' support them.
In an ideal world I believe there should be a mix - some sites that do endorse them and others which want to stay truer to the organic poker experience. I agree that NOT allowing them is a strong selling point for some players, but conversely some others might not come to the site if they feel they're having to play a bit 'behind the times'. Different strokes for different folks.
That's my 2c worth on it, and do remember that this is just my take on the issue and not an official line on it at all. What I can say is that people like Des, Bernie and Adam work hard and believe in their product more than many, many people I have seen in this industry. They'll not make this decision lightly.
and i also understand there are people that don't like playing against them and this could be used as a USP for the site. Like i say i'll live either way the decision goes. It only has a bearing on the type of poker i play here and the frequency. At the moment this is a fun site for me. To commit to cash grinding here i would really want this available but i'll play a few quid here and there on the site no matter what.
Up to this point the lack of trakers has been purely a technical issue and as such not one i suppose that the powers that be have had to concern themselves with. The downloadable client obviously throws up what i'm sure is a very controversial decision for the company and one that i am also certain will define the cash & tournie play on the site.
I have a feeling my views may come out on the loseing side of this debate. The "Image" of SKY as a site for fun poker may win out, but what ever they decide I hope the answer (and the client) materialise quickly lol
Cheers for the views Dave, and i also understand there are people that don't like playing against them and this could be used as a USP for the site. Like i say i'll live either way the decision goes. It only has a bearing on the type of poker i play here and the frequency. At the moment this is a fun site for me. To commit to cash grinding here i would really want this available but i'll play a few quid here and there on the site no matter what. Up to this point the lack of trakers has been purely a technical issue and as such not one i suppose that the powers that be have had to concern themselves with. The downloadable client obviously throws up what i'm sure is a very controversial decision for the company and one that i am also certain will define the cash & tournie play on the site. I have a feeling my views may come out on the loseing side of this debate. The "Image" of SKY as a site for fun poker may win out, but what ever they decide I hope the answer (and the client) materialise quickly lol Posted by ACESOVER8s
I have a feeling that your views will come out on the winning side aces.
Even though I am against having tracker compatability, I think it will be implemented sooner or later as I think the traffic will increase when it does. I am under no illusions here, and when/if it comes into practice I fully expect my winrate to dip significantly and have no reservations admitting that. Even though I will be using pt myself.
I dont think I am alone here either, and most of the others who dont want pt is for the same reason. There are ppl who have posted on this thread who have mastered multitabling with no tracker support, so why would they want ppl coming along who are basically better `statistics analysts` than them.
I think there are many ppl who would leave this site if pt came into use, but I think more ppl would sign up to outweigh it.
That is of course if `cash for points` was seriously overhauled to bring it in line with competitors.
I think that may actually be key. If the cash for points system can't compete with rake back deals, then is the introduction of PT3 compatability actualy going to bring in the big rakers for cash play?
I think if SKY weigh it up and decide not to restructure Cash for points then they may also decide that high rake players who survive off that type of thing are not their target market, thus leaving the site a Fun Zone and no need to bring the trackers in.
Ah well only a month or 2 until launch of the software so we will know by then i guess
Holdem manager does not tell you what to do, it will not make decisions for you, It will not make you into a winning player, it simply provides stats and allows you to make a decision based upon them.
such stats are:
The percentage of hands a player is playing How often does he/she fold to a c-bet how often does he/she fold to a steal
All the above info you could get yourself just by watching the table and making notes.
I don't see why people have a problem with it especially when the software is there for everyone to use.
I would also like to mention that this software is pretty much useless for things like mtt's and sng's because of the blind structure and the fact that people play differently depending on their stack to blind ratio.
`Holdem manager does not tell you what to do, it will not make decisions for you, It will not make you into a winning player, it simply provides stats and allows you to make a decision based upon them.`
Debatable.
If a 63/58/4.5 open shoves pre and you are holding AK, you are instacalling.
If a 5/4/3 open shoves pre and you hold AK, you are instafolding.
There may not be a voice or text actually telling you what decision to make but its the same thing.
`Holdem manager does not tell you what to do, it will not make decisions for you, It will not make you into a winning player, it simply provides stats and allows you to make a decision based upon them.` Debatable. If a 63/58/4.5 open shoves pre and you are holding AK, you are instacalling. If a 5/4/3 open shoves pre and you hold AK, you are instafolding. There may not be a voice or text actually telling you what decision to make but its the same thing. It is only a tiny step away from being a bot. Posted by OMahonyO
I understand what you're saying but the 2 sets of stats that you give are at each end of the scale and to be honest with you, you wouldn't need HEM to tell you that one guy is playing like a maniac and the other hasn't played a hand since last week.
Tracking software puts off recreational (losing) players as they believe it is cheating, they want privacy on thier gambling losses and want to play on a level playing field. POKER INDUSTRY RELIES ON LOSING PLAYERS, they are more important than any multi tabling reg even though they pay more in rake. You might not think this at first but look at ipoker for an example, they offered silly rake back deals to loads of winning players, in the short term it helped the network grow but they have come to realise that silly rake back deals and having a site full of multi tabling bots relying on both huds and rakeback is not good for the industry in the long term. Ipoker are now shutting down skins who have too many winning players and therefore there is a british bookmaker who have actually banned winning regs from playing on their skin so that they take in more than they pay out. Poker needs casual players having a bit of fun, huds make regs play better and therefore they will take the casual players money quicker, the casual player gets fed up of hardly winning and stops playing.
So sky I see you have 2 choices
1) Enable tracking software get into a rakeback war and attract more regs, you will see a short term increase in volume (not always profit as these nits will constantly pass the blinds round pots will small and therefore rake will be.) These players will stop a couple of months and then go to the next place offering a good rb deal.
2) Dont allow rakeback or tracking software, Invest in marketing and attract casual players who play for fun, without people willing to spend there is no industry. Attracting these players by advertising the fact there is no tracking software on sky and by investing in marketing will ensure the long term prospects of the site and profits will be greater as pots are bigger. Also no need to give half of your income back to these players.
From a personal point of view tracking software will see my winnings grow in the short term as my edge will be greater and I would love to see 55% rakeback that I have at a Ipoker skin as again my short term profits will grow. However, I dont want to see these changes implemented as it is not good for the long term of the poker industry.
I dont know what sky's plans are for the future but I hope they seriously think about what they are wanting to achieve in the long term.
Tracking software puts off recreational (losing) players as they believe it is cheating, they want privacy on thier gambling losses and want to play on a level playing field. POKER INDUSTRY RELIES ON LOSING PLAYERS, they are more important than any multi tabling reg even though they pay more in rake. You might not think this at first but look at ipoker for an example, they offered silly rake back deals to loads of winning players, in the short term it helped the network grow but they have come to realise that silly rake back deals and having a site full of multi tabling bots relying on both huds and rakeback is not good for the industry in the long term. Ipoker are now shutting down skins who have too many winning players and therefore there is a british bookmaker who have actually banned winning regs from playing on their skin so that they take in more than they pay out. Poker needs casual players having a bit of fun, huds make regs play better and therefore they will take the casual players money quicker, the casual player gets fed up of hardly winning and stops playing. So sky I see you have 2 choices 1) Enable tracking software get into a rakeback war and attract more regs, you will see a short term increase in volume (not always profit as these nits will constantly pass the blinds round pots will small and therefore rake will be.) These players will stop a couple of months and then go to the next place offering a good rb deal. 2) Dont allow rakeback or tracking software, Invest in marketing and attract casual players who play for fun, without people willing to spend there is no industry. Attracting these players by advertising the fact there is no tracking software on sky and by investing in marketing will ensure the long term prospects of the site and profits will be greater as pots are bigger. Also no need to give half of your income back to these players. From a personal point of view tracking software will see my winnings grow in the short term as my edge will be greater and I would love to see 55% rakeback that I have at a Ipoker skin as again my short term profits will grow. However, I dont want to see these changes implemented as it is not good for the long term of the poker industry. I dont know what sky's plans are for the future but I hope they seriously think about what they are wanting to achieve in the long term. Posted by ajs4385
this makes sense.
I`m not sure they would advertise the fact that sky doesnt allow tracking software though. They would want to keep their options open for the future. Advertising no pt etc is effectively closing that door as they would be slammed if they reversed their decision.
Tracking software puts off recreational (losing) players as they believe it is cheating, they want privacy on thier gambling losses and want to play on a level playing field. POKER INDUSTRY RELIES ON LOSING PLAYERS, they are more important than any multi tabling reg even though they pay more in rake. You might not think this at first but look at ipoker for an example, they offered silly rake back deals to loads of winning players, in the short term it helped the network grow but they have come to realise that silly rake back deals and having a site full of multi tabling bots relying on both huds and rakeback is not good for the industry in the long term. Ipoker are now shutting down skins who have too many winning players and therefore there is a british bookmaker who have actually banned winning regs from playing on their skin so that they take in more than they pay out. Poker needs casual players having a bit of fun, huds make regs play better and therefore they will take the casual players money quicker, the casual player gets fed up of hardly winning and stops playing. So sky I see you have 2 choices 1) Enable tracking software get into a rakeback war and attract more regs, you will see a short term increase in volume (not always profit as these nits will constantly pass the blinds round pots will small and therefore rake will be.) These players will stop a couple of months and then go to the next place offering a good rb deal. 2) Dont allow rakeback or tracking software, Invest in marketing and attract casual players who play for fun, without people willing to spend there is no industry. Attracting these players by advertising the fact there is no tracking software on sky and by investing in marketing will ensure the long term prospects of the site and profits will be greater as pots are bigger. Also no need to give half of your income back to these players. From a personal point of view tracking software will see my winnings grow in the short term as my edge will be greater and I would love to see 55% rakeback that I have at a Ipoker skin as again my short term profits will grow. However, I dont want to see these changes implemented as it is not good for the long term of the poker industry. I dont know what sky's plans are for the future but I hope they seriously think about what they are wanting to achieve in the long term. Posted by ajs4385
I understand what you're saying but i think your concerns are a little over the top. The very nature of SKY and the fact that they have a TV show means that nowadays, this will always be the first point of call for players getting into the game in the UK. I also don't think there will be thousands of reg's joining the site just because it allows HEM as every other site already allows it anyway.
If sky does take your view and decides that not allowing HEM is the best way to be different, I think they should still get the download version, enable tables to be re-sized (for people who haven't got 3 monitors), and introduce an instant hand re-player to enable people to take notes easier.
I dont think there will be loads of regs joining, and that is not my concern. As stated I think if Sky went down the route of enabling this software and getting into a rakeback war it would see me profit in the short term.
The problem is my and other regs edge over the casual gambler will be too great. The reason casinos are succesfull is the games have a marginal edge literally 1% in some games. This means the casual gambler regurly has winning sessions and comes back time and time again and in the long term still loses but enjoys it because of the winning sessions. If the edge of regs become too great i.e. with PT or HEM, the gamblers will be put off poker as they will hardly ever win and therefore not enjoy it. Also when they realise people are tracking there losses and have stats will be put off playing online poker. Most gamblers dont realise this exist, but when they do they will stop playing. This is from personal experience, I know a few people who enjoy a gamble online sometimes play poker, sports betting etc. They are quite happy to spend money as it is their entertainment. I talked to them about online poker and mentioned this software, some where literally angry when they found out and boycott spending money on poker now. I was lmao at time to their reaction. As stated before without people willing to spend money on poker there is no industry.
So for the long term good, I hope Sky and other sites do not allow tracking software, and dont get into rakeback wars and instead invest the rake in attracting casual players to the site.
Whats all this nonsense about whether sky allow tracking software or not. Its quite simply if any poker site allows you to download hand history to your pc, then in theory, tracking software can exist. What you run on your pc is completely independent of sky. At the moment you cannot use tracking software with sky, because there is no facility to download hand histories to your pc.
The current hand history format is in my opinion abysmal. It is extremely difficult to review hands. What is necessary is the hands to be viewable in a standard hand history converter tool.
Whats all this nonsense about whether sky allow tracking software or not. Its quite simply if any poker site allows you to download hand history to your pc, then in theory, tracking software can exist. What you run on your pc is completely independent of sky. At the moment you cannot use tracking software with sky, because there is no facility to download hand histories to your pc. The current hand history format is in my opinion abysmal. It is extremely difficult to review hands. What is necessary is the hands to be viewable in a standard hand history converter tool. Posted by teachai
That's kind of the point you've missed. They are about to launch a downloadable client and the thread is about the HH to see if they will make it exportable to PT3 or not
HEM compatible hands would kill Sky Poker imho. Everyone at mo is on level playing field and there are so many recreational players at sky who would just get eaten alive if there were stats available on them. Also TV players would have a huge disadvantage. If you want accurate aids and reads do the work and write comprehensive notes on people. Much more reliable than stats anyway.
If you wanna use stats software go play at FTP/Stars and join the masses/grinders/pro's
HEM compatible hands would kill Sky Poker imho. Everyone at mo is on level playing field and there are so many recreational players at sky who would just get eaten alive if there were stats available on them. Also TV players would have a huge disadvantage. If you want accurate aids and reads do the work and write comprehensive notes on people. Much more reliable than stats anyway. If you wanna use stats software go play at FTP/Stars and join the masses/grinders/pro's Posted by cottlad
Ok i get that you don't want them here which is fine, to say that note taking is more reliable than accurate and real time stats????????? not a comment that lends itself to your argument to be honest. If you wanna see how fast cars are going you look at the speedo not watch them for 2 hrs and have an educated guess.
PLO wasn't here 3 months ago, should it not have been asked for because some people didn't want to play it???? should all players wanting PLO have been told to join other sites because you didn't want it?? A question has been asked and Sky will take a decision on it based on where they want the site to go. If they want to keep in line with bigger sites they will introduce exportable history, if not they may use it as a USP to try and get more recreational players. I'm fine either way and i don't feel the need to tell you to go play elsewhere because you don't view things my way.
I can accept some people don't want them here but the "Level Playing Field" comment gets banded about a lot where it's not warranted. It's a decision to buy one of these programs that is personal to each player just as it's a decision to bother making notes or try and improve your game. It is a level playing field because each and every player has the choice - Choices make it level, not fear of technology
In Response to Re: Compatability OF PT3 & HEM with Skys Downloadable Client : Ok i get that you don't want them here which is fine, to say that note taking is more reliable than accurate and real time stats????????? not a comment that lends itself to your argument to be honest. If you wanna see how fast cars are going you look at the speedo not watch them for 2 hrs and have an educated guess. PLO wasn't here 3 months ago, should it not have been asked for because some people didn't want to play it???? should all players wanting PLO have been told to join other sites because you didn't want it?? A question has been asked and Sky will take a decision on it based on where they want the site to go. If they want to keep in line with bigger sites they will introduce exportable history, if not they may use it as a USP to try and get more recreational players. I'm fine either way and i don't feel the need to tell you to go play elsewhere because you don't view things my way. I can accept some people don't want them here but the "Level Playing Field" comment gets banded about a lot where it's not warranted. It's a decision to buy one of these programs that is personal to each player just as it's a decision to bother making notes or try and improve your game. It is a level playing field because each and every player has the choice - Choices make it level, not fear of technology Posted by ACESOVER8s
If you think solid notes are less reliable/profitable than stats then i wish you luck with yr game.... i disagree strongly...
Also.,. a question..... Why do you want stats software at sky so badly? Can't you just play at another site if yr so desperate for stats? Or is there a reason why you prefer to play here instead?
Also...i'm not 'afraid of technology' lol. I use stats software and HUD at the other sites i play and have written numerous articles on the use and advantages of stats that have ben published in Inside Poker magaine
In Response to Re: Compatability OF PT3 & HEM with Skys Downloadable Client : Ok i get that you don't want them here which is fine, to say that note taking is more reliable than accurate and real time stats????????? not a comment that lends itself to your argument to be honest. If you wanna see how fast cars are going you look at the speedo not watch them for 2 hrs and have an educated guess. PLO wasn't here 3 months ago, should it not have been asked for because some people didn't want to play it???? should all players wanting PLO have been told to join other sites because you didn't want it?? A question has been asked and Sky will take a decision on it based on where they want the site to go. If they want to keep in line with bigger sites they will introduce exportable history, if not they may use it as a USP to try and get more recreational players. I'm fine either way and i don't feel the need to tell you to go play elsewhere because you don't view things my way. I can accept some people don't want them here but the "Level Playing Field" comment gets banded about a lot where it's not warranted. It's a decision to buy one of these programs that is personal to each player just as it's a decision to bother making notes or try and improve your game. It is a level playing field because each and every player has the choice - Choices make it level, not fear of technology Posted by ACESOVER8s
tbf aces, cottlad is voicing his opinion on wether pt/hem should be introduced, just as others have, and there are obv others that want it. These forums may be taken into account when any decisions are being made higher up. For this reason, he has the right to speak out about it as I spose you could see it as having a vote.
I`m not sure what a USP is so cant comment on that. Can anyone explain this to me?
As for stats vs notes. I prob agree with you on that one aces. I cant think of many notes that could be made that stats wont cover in a lot more detail, apart from timing tells or something. I could be wrong though.
Also pt/hem is mainly an advantage for multitablers who dont have time to make notes
Cottlad - Fear of technology comment not specific to you - a comment on why some people don't want it available on this site (Sky is an oddity i think in the fact that it actually has an amazing amount of player loyalty, people who don't play on ANY other site and fear anything that other sites do differently due to BOT scare story's etc)
Presumed you had used these anyway and know you do well on here. The HUD stats to help in realtime are not my only thoughts on this and i'd like to run the programs here as it's predominantly 6 max and i'd like to plug leaks i have against players here specifically - Just don't like being told that i should "Go elsewhere" for asking the question is all. In previous posts i had already stated that i will play here whatever the decision is and like you i have the right to do so (for info purposes i do already play at other major sites mentioned in your posts, i'd just like to add stats from here as well is all)
Although a lot of people like the fact that these are not currently available here i think they forget that it's not a stance by Sky not to have them, it's merely their technology is not up to scratch. There is no Moral highroad on fairness that the site have taken on this (As Yet) it is purely a matter of capability. I respect your right to have an opinion and i guess we will have to wait and see what the SUITS upstairs decide
OMahonyO - USP would stand for Unique Selling Point - something that Sky do differently to everybody else that makes them stand out and people choose them over their competitors. They already have these to be fair with the TV Station and the sky sports shows.
I started on SKy as the web browser allowed me to play at work where i couldn't download a client to works system
I now enojy some of the 8pm MTT's due to field size and 6 max action i think they are fun, i mess about on low level cash here and there but only for fun
Comments
and i also understand there are people that don't like playing against them and this could be used as a USP for the site. Like i say i'll live either way the decision goes. It only has a bearing on the type of poker i play here and the frequency. At the moment this is a fun site for me. To commit to cash grinding here i would really want this available but i'll play a few quid here and there on the site no matter what.
Up to this point the lack of trakers has been purely a technical issue and as such not one i suppose that the powers that be have had to concern themselves with. The downloadable client obviously throws up what i'm sure is a very controversial decision for the company and one that i am also certain will define the cash & tournie play on the site.
I have a feeling my views may come out on the loseing side of this debate. The "Image" of SKY as a site for fun poker may win out, but what ever they decide I hope the answer (and the client) materialise quickly lol
Even though I am against having tracker compatability, I think it will be implemented sooner or later as I think the traffic will increase when it does.
I am under no illusions here, and when/if it comes into practice I fully expect my winrate to dip significantly and have no reservations admitting that. Even though I will be using pt myself.
I dont think I am alone here either, and most of the others who dont want pt is for the same reason. There are ppl who have posted on this thread who have mastered multitabling with no tracker support, so why would they want ppl coming along who are basically better `statistics analysts` than them.
I think there are many ppl who would leave this site if pt came into use, but I think more ppl would sign up to outweigh it.
That is of course if `cash for points` was seriously overhauled to bring it in line with competitors.
I think if SKY weigh it up and decide not to restructure Cash for points then they may also decide that high rake players who survive off that type of thing are not their target market, thus leaving the site a Fun Zone and no need to bring the trackers in.
Ah well only a month or 2 until launch of the software so we will know by then i guess
Holdem manager does not tell you what to do, it will not make decisions for you, It will not make you into a winning player, it simply provides stats and allows you to make a decision based upon them.
such stats are:
The percentage of hands a player is playing
How often does he/she fold to a c-bet
how often does he/she fold to a steal
All the above info you could get yourself just by watching the table and making notes.
I don't see why people have a problem with it especially when the software is there for everyone to use.
I would also like to mention that this software is pretty much useless for things like mtt's and sng's because of the blind structure and the fact that people play differently depending on their stack to blind ratio.
Salazar
Debatable.
If a 63/58/4.5 open shoves pre and you are holding AK, you are instacalling.
If a 5/4/3 open shoves pre and you hold AK, you are instafolding.
There may not be a voice or text actually telling you what decision to make but its the same thing.
It is only a tiny step away from being a bot.
I understand what you're saying but the 2 sets of stats that you give are at each end of the scale and to be honest with you, you wouldn't need HEM to tell you that one guy is playing like a maniac and the other hasn't played a hand since last week.
Salazar
So sky I see you have 2 choices
1) Enable tracking software get into a rakeback war and attract more regs, you will see a short term increase in volume (not always profit as these nits will constantly pass the blinds round pots will small and therefore rake will be.) These players will stop a couple of months and then go to the next place offering a good rb deal.
2) Dont allow rakeback or tracking software, Invest in marketing and attract casual players who play for fun, without people willing to spend there is no industry. Attracting these players by advertising the fact there is no tracking software on sky and by investing in marketing will ensure the long term prospects of the site and profits will be greater as pots are bigger. Also no need to give half of your income back to these players.
From a personal point of view tracking software will see my winnings grow in the short term as my edge will be greater and I would love to see 55% rakeback that I have at a Ipoker skin as again my short term profits will grow. However, I dont want to see these changes implemented as it is not good for the long term of the poker industry.
I dont know what sky's plans are for the future but I hope they seriously think about what they are wanting to achieve in the long term.
I`m not sure they would advertise the fact that sky doesnt allow tracking software though. They would want to keep their options open for the future. Advertising no pt etc is effectively closing that door as they would be slammed if they reversed their decision.
55% rb? is that with plex?
If sky does take your view and decides that not allowing HEM is the best way to be different, I think they should still get the download version, enable tables to be re-sized (for people who haven't got 3 monitors), and introduce an instant hand re-player to enable people to take notes easier.
Salazar
The problem is my and other regs edge over the casual gambler will be too great. The reason casinos are succesfull is the games have a marginal edge literally 1% in some games. This means the casual gambler regurly has winning sessions and comes back time and time again and in the long term still loses but enjoys it because of the winning sessions. If the edge of regs become too great i.e. with PT or HEM, the gamblers will be put off poker as they will hardly ever win and therefore not enjoy it. Also when they realise people are tracking there losses and have stats will be put off playing online poker. Most gamblers dont realise this exist, but when they do they will stop playing. This is from personal experience, I know a few people who enjoy a gamble online sometimes play poker, sports betting etc. They are quite happy to spend money as it is their entertainment. I talked to them about online poker and mentioned this software, some where literally angry when they found out and boycott spending money on poker now. I was lmao at time to their reaction. As stated before without people willing to spend money on poker there is no industry.
So for the long term good, I hope Sky and other sites do not allow tracking software, and dont get into rakeback wars and instead invest the rake in attracting casual players to the site.
The current hand history format is in my opinion abysmal. It is extremely difficult to review hands. What is necessary is the hands to be viewable in a standard hand history converter tool.
If you want accurate aids and reads do the work and write comprehensive notes on people. Much more reliable than stats anyway.
If you wanna use stats software go play at FTP/Stars and join the masses/grinders/pro's
PLO wasn't here 3 months ago, should it not have been asked for because some people didn't want to play it???? should all players wanting PLO have been told to join other sites because you didn't want it?? A question has been asked and Sky will take a decision on it based on where they want the site to go. If they want to keep in line with bigger sites they will introduce exportable history, if not they may use it as a USP to try and get more recreational players. I'm fine either way and i don't feel the need to tell you to go play elsewhere because you don't view things my way.
I can accept some people don't want them here but the "Level Playing Field" comment gets banded about a lot where it's not warranted. It's a decision to buy one of these programs that is personal to each player just as it's a decision to bother making notes or try and improve your game. It is a level playing field because each and every player has the choice - Choices make it level, not fear of technology
Also.,. a question..... Why do you want stats software at sky so badly? Can't you just play at another site if yr so desperate for stats? Or is there a reason why you prefer to play here instead?
Also...i'm not 'afraid of technology' lol. I use stats software and HUD at the other sites i play and have written numerous articles on the use and advantages of stats that have ben published in Inside Poker magaine
These forums may be taken into account when any decisions are being made higher up. For this reason, he has the right to speak out about it as I spose you could see it as having a vote.
I`m not sure what a USP is so cant comment on that. Can anyone explain this to me?
As for stats vs notes. I prob agree with you on that one aces. I cant think of many notes that could be made that stats wont cover in a lot more detail, apart from timing tells or something. I could be wrong though.
Also pt/hem is mainly an advantage for multitablers who dont have time to make notes
Presumed you had used these anyway and know you do well on here. The HUD stats to help in realtime are not my only thoughts on this and i'd like to run the programs here as it's predominantly 6 max and i'd like to plug leaks i have against players here specifically - Just don't like being told that i should "Go elsewhere" for asking the question is all. In previous posts i had already stated that i will play here whatever the decision is and like you i have the right to do so (for info purposes i do already play at other major sites mentioned in your posts, i'd just like to add stats from here as well is all)
Although a lot of people like the fact that these are not currently available here i think they forget that it's not a stance by Sky not to have them, it's merely their technology is not up to scratch. There is no Moral highroad on fairness that the site have taken on this (As Yet) it is purely a matter of capability. I respect your right to have an opinion and i guess we will have to wait and see what the SUITS upstairs decide
OMahonyO - USP would stand for Unique Selling Point - something that Sky do differently to everybody else that makes them stand out and people choose them over their competitors. They already have these to be fair with the TV Station and the sky sports shows.
I started on SKy as the web browser allowed me to play at work where i couldn't download a client to works system
I now enojy some of the 8pm MTT's due to field size and 6 max action i think they are fun, i mess about on low level cash here and there but only for fun