In Response to Re: Dissapointed with last nights show. : What? Do behave. "It's simple: the Pylon Appreciation Society is a club for people who appreciate electricity pylons. Enthusiasts range from primary school children to retired engineers and include anyone who is interested or inspired by transmission towers. As well as the wealth of information available through this site, if you choose to become a member there are other benefits including the field guide (pictured, being released in installments), messageboard, and other resources. You will get a welcome pack with photo card, a "parts of the pylon" print, badge, and other items such as bookmarks, stickers and info card." http://www.pylons.org/http://www.pylons.org/exhibition/15x10towers/westham.shtml When a man is tired of pylons, he is tired of life (Samuel Johnson, 1709 - 1784) Posted by Tikay10
This is my line (pardon the pun) of work, although I work on the ground mounted switchgear in the substations rather than the overhead lines (scared of heights).
Is it the pylon structure you are interested in or the electricity distribution?? I find the latter far more interesting!
This thread definitely proves that it isn't easy to please everyone all the time.
Some people clearly like tournaments being shown and analysed, other people like cash. Some want lots of detailed hand analysis, others like the challenge side of it and want it to be more fun and lighter.
I think the first thing to remember is the constraints that come with a two-hour show on Sky Sports 4. I don't personally think you can show a tournament that starts before 10pm on a show that airs at 10pm and I definitely don't think you can show a tournament that ends after midnight. The show runs 10pm until midnight. put yourself in the shoes of a casual viewer watching coverage of the 8pm event. It has been running two hours when you switch on so you are watching a "movie" from half way in. You manage to pick up the plot and start following the characters and then it all stops at midnight forty minutes before the bad guy got shot and the girl fell into the heroes arms. It just seems like a no-brainer that you can't expect viewers to go for that. To be honest I never understood why the structure wasn't changed to make sure the turbo was always done by midnight when we covered it on 861.
I think cash works much better in this spot. A lot of the coverage of turbo tournaments is pretty repetitive. The answer is almost always "go all-in" after the first half and hour or so. I think that could get pretty dull pretty quickly.
The fact that Sky Poker gets two hours of primetime TV to "sell their wares", (even though there are strict regulations on how that can be done and no direct mentions of "go to Sky Poker" or "check out the site and sign up now" can be made), is a great thing for the site and for all that play regularly on it. The show sometimes gets as many as 50 times as many viewers as 861 did and those people coming through and trying poker on the site must be good for everyone who enjoys playing at Sky Poker.
I just think it's important to remember that those people need to be engaged and the way to do that is probably different than it was with a three and five times a week five hour show.
I actually really like the cash challenge, but would like to also see some other variety in the show
Going forward I would like to see some form of 'round up' from the weekly main, mini and bigger events, results, perhaps some edited final table coverage of the roller (as it's the flagship weekly event). I saw Anna doing a weekly news segment on you tube, something similar would work.
i think that anything that highlights whats available in a 'soft sell' manner (showcasing to possible newbies) and something that keeps the regular players engaged (who doesn't like to see their alias on the telly box).
I agree with Neil, Cash is Sky's biggest percentage of traffic and purely from a business model it generates the most revenue it is an easier format for new recreational players which is essential for the poker industry to thrive. Also it's a flexible game for TV as you can set the length of time for it and can even sit out for analysis and most importantley it's FUN. I only just discovered cash recently thanks to mastercash on skypoker tv and cannot get enough!
Great to hear that the number of viewers is so high, have you noticed a significant rise in new accounts?
With regards to content obv you must make it viewer friendly while also giving people what they want. Judging that is the tricky bit as with poker itself your viewers will be split into different styles.
How about edited highlights of the best bits from through out the week? You already do it with cash in top of the pots, would it be possible to do the same with tourneys, say biggest gtd bounty hunter, freeze out (roller) and speed event, that being edited highlights of the previous week. It would also give you time to pick out some interesting hands for the analysts to do there bit.
Good luck in going forward however you decide to evolve the format anyhow.
The fact that Sky Poker gets two hours of primetime TV to "sell their wares", (even though there are strict regulations on how that can be done and no direct mentions of "go to Sky Poker" or "check out the site and sign up now" can be made), is a great thing for the site and for all that play regularly on it. The show sometimes gets as many as 50 times as many viewers as 861 did and those people coming through and trying poker on the site must be good for everyone who enjoys playing at Sky Poker.
Hi Neil - Interesting stuff. So your task I guess is to get as many of the viewers to start playing on Skypoker as possible, however the bit highlighted in bold makes this a bit trickier! I think I saw mentioned before that you were getting up to 50,000 viewers on SS5, although MTT's are probably not as interesting to watch as Cash (especially in a Turbo where it is pretty much shove / fold towards the end) the fact that the winner of a MTT gets multiple times their buy-in I think makes that part more attractive to the new starter. So just needs a plan to get as many of the 50,000 viewers into the 10pm Turbo MTT on a Tuesday without actually mentioning Skypoker.
Another thing that I think is really important is consistency. I totally take the point that some people are saying "I watched it a couple of times but it's a bit repetitive and I won't stick with it". but I'm going to have to say that I don't agree with that. I just don't think you can rip up the format and change it to try and please everyone every week.
Have a look at Countdown, Question Time, Newsnight and any number of other long-running shows. They may tweek the format from time to time, but basically they have a format and they stick to it.
While I think it would be nice to have a chance to talk more about what has been happening on the site this week, in lots of ways, I do think that that is tricky. Partly there is a problem of what you can and cannot say but partly there is a big problem of excluding the new casual viewer who just wants to watch some poker and is not really tuning in to watch an information about what is happening on Sky Poker programme. It can sound a bit parochial if the whole thing becomes about the "parish newsletter" for Sky Poker. I understand that it would be great if 50,000 people could be directly sold to in that way but I think that might not get 50,000 to watch and to stick with it.
I think generally Sky Sports attracts 25-40 year old males who like sports and those should be the ones that the programmes are made for. If they enjoy the programme and think they might go on to try playing some poker, or go back to playing some poker, then hopefully they'll choose to play their poker on Sky Poker.
I think persuading the 50,000 that the kind of programme they want to watch is one that we would prefer them to watch may not help things and they could just switch off which won't really please Sky Sports or be any good for anyone.
Another thing that I think is really important is consistency. I totally take the point that some people are saying "I watched it a couple of times but it's a bit repetitive and I won't stick with it". but I'm going to have to say that I don't agree with that. I just don't think you can rip up the format and change it to try and please everyone every week. Have a look at Countdown, Question Time, Newsnight and any number of other long-running shows. They may tweek the format from time to time, but basically they have a format and they stick to it. While I think it would be nice to have a chance to talk more about what has been happening on the site this week, in lots of ways, I do think that that is tricky. Partly there is a problem of what you can and cannot say but partly there is a big problem of excluding the new casual viewer who just wants to watch some poker and is not really tuning in to watch an information about what is happening on Sky Poker programme. It can sound a bit parochial if the whole thing becomes about the "parish newsletter" for Sky Poker. I understand that it would be great if 50,000 people could be directly sold to in that way but I think that might not get 50,000 to watch and to stick with it. I think generally Sky Sports attracts 25-40 year old males who like sports and those should be the ones that the programmes are made for. If they enjoy the programme and think they might go on to try playing some poker, or go back to playing some poker, then hopefully they'll choose to play their poker on Sky Poker. I think persuading the 50,000 that the kind of programme they want to watch is one that we would prefer them to watch may not help things and they could just switch off which won't really please Sky Sports or be any good for anyone. Posted by NChanning
Firstly, your replies are coming over very well and I agree with some (but not all) of your points.
Hopefully I can add to this debate with my POV's. I am mainly a MTT player so this new format of a few 'mates' playing a cash poker challenge doesn't really appeal to me. I, however, do understand that you have to now cater for the more popular format of the game and the programme is now trying to do this.
The 'community' feel to Sky Poker is now lost with the new shows. The interaction with many has now gone.
Hypothetically, if I was a new player, I would not feel the urge to sign up and play poker where the examples shown in the shows so far are 1) Sit down with about £100 which you can lose in any one hand or 2) Watch this TOTP's hand where thousands are lost and won. Granted, it is good for the current cash player but, IMO, not the casual viewer. Whereas, when a MTT is shown, where a player can win hundreds of pounds from a few pennies invested, this would attract more. Again, just my opinion.
I agree you can not please all of the people all of the time but hope that some views are taken on board and the show (in whatever format) grows and keeps up its viewing figures. I can only see that further developments/extra shows will only happen if the current one is/or is seen to be a success. I for one really hope it is.
The fact that Sky Poker gets two hours of primetime TV to "sell their wares", (even though there are strict regulations on how that can be done and no direct mentions of "go to Sky Poker" or "check out the site and sign up now" can be made) ,Posted by GREGSTER
Can't Sky Poker buy the advertising during the show and advertise soon-to-start tournaments - similar to how Ray Winstone tempts football fans to 'bet in play, naaw' by chucking up odds for a competitor brand... get a recognisable face to 'sign up to a 10.30 BH game, now'?
Or is it outlawed to even sell the site in TV adverts?
FWIW I like the £100 challenge as part of the main show, a bit like the celebrity lap times on Top Gear, say. Perhaps the occasional non-poker player may help this even more (an extension of where famous sports stars appeared on the live cash games).
In Response to Re: Dissapointed with last nights show. : Can't Sky Poker buy the advertising during the show and advertise soon-to-start tournaments - similar to how Ray Winstone tempts football fans to 'bet in play, naaw' by chucking up odds for a competitor brand... get a recognisable face to 'sign up to a 10.30 BH game, now'? Or is it outlawed to even sell the site in TV adverts? FWIW I like the £100 challenge as part of the main show, a bit like the celebrity lap times on Top Gear, say. Perhaps the occasional non-poker player may help this even more (an extension of where famous sports stars appeared on the live cash games). Posted by shakinaces
theres no way your a regular viewer of newsnight and question time neil Posted by dazed1
You would do your money betting on that Dazed. I have watched every single Question Time this year. I always watch it even if I'm abroad and I usually Sky+ it so I never miss a bit. Newsnight I'm more of a once or twice a week guy. I watched most days during the election but since Paxo went I watch it less often on "normal" weeks. Panoroma not so much but I'm massively missing Daily Poilitics already and I wish they'd have elections more often.
Comments
Is it the pylon structure you are interested in or the electricity distribution?? I find the latter far more interesting!
This thread definitely proves that it isn't easy to please everyone all the time.
Some people clearly like tournaments being shown and analysed, other people like cash. Some want lots of detailed hand analysis, others like the challenge side of it and want it to be more fun and lighter.
I think the first thing to remember is the constraints that come with a two-hour show on Sky Sports 4. I don't personally think you can show a tournament that starts before 10pm on a show that airs at 10pm and I definitely don't think you can show a tournament that ends after midnight. The show runs 10pm until midnight. put yourself in the shoes of a casual viewer watching coverage of the 8pm event. It has been running two hours when you switch on so you are watching a "movie" from half way in. You manage to pick up the plot and start following the characters and then it all stops at midnight forty minutes before the bad guy got shot and the girl fell into the heroes arms. It just seems like a no-brainer that you can't expect viewers to go for that. To be honest I never understood why the structure wasn't changed to make sure the turbo was always done by midnight when we covered it on 861.
I think cash works much better in this spot. A lot of the coverage of turbo tournaments is pretty repetitive. The answer is almost always "go all-in" after the first half and hour or so. I think that could get pretty dull pretty quickly.
The fact that Sky Poker gets two hours of primetime TV to "sell their wares", (even though there are strict regulations on how that can be done and no direct mentions of "go to Sky Poker" or "check out the site and sign up now" can be made), is a great thing for the site and for all that play regularly on it. The show sometimes gets as many as 50 times as many viewers as 861 did and those people coming through and trying poker on the site must be good for everyone who enjoys playing at Sky Poker.
I just think it's important to remember that those people need to be engaged and the way to do that is probably different than it was with a three and five times a week five hour show.
thanks for the insight neil.
you could reveal the latest *** skypoker best players ***
With regards to content obv you must make it viewer friendly while also giving people what they want. Judging that is the tricky bit as with poker itself your viewers will be split into different styles.
How about edited highlights of the best bits from through out the week? You already do it with cash in top of the pots, would it be possible to do the same with tourneys, say biggest gtd bounty hunter, freeze out (roller) and speed event, that being edited highlights of the previous week. It would also give you time to pick out some interesting hands for the analysts to do there bit.
Good luck in going forward however you decide to evolve the format anyhow.
Regards James
Hi Neil - Interesting stuff. So your task I guess is to get as many of the viewers to start playing on Skypoker as possible, however the bit highlighted in bold makes this a bit trickier! I think I saw mentioned before that you were getting up to 50,000 viewers on SS5, although MTT's are probably not as interesting to watch as Cash (especially in a Turbo where it is pretty much shove / fold towards the end) the fact that the winner of a MTT gets multiple times their buy-in I think makes that part more attractive to the new starter. So just needs a plan to get as many of the 50,000 viewers into the 10pm Turbo MTT on a Tuesday without actually mentioning Skypoker.
Cheers
Greg.
Have a look at Countdown, Question Time, Newsnight and any number of other long-running shows. They may tweek the format from time to time, but basically they have a format and they stick to it.
While I think it would be nice to have a chance to talk more about what has been happening on the site this week, in lots of ways, I do think that that is tricky. Partly there is a problem of what you can and cannot say but partly there is a big problem of excluding the new casual viewer who just wants to watch some poker and is not really tuning in to watch an information about what is happening on Sky Poker programme. It can sound a bit parochial if the whole thing becomes about the "parish newsletter" for Sky Poker. I understand that it would be great if 50,000 people could be directly sold to in that way but I think that might not get 50,000 to watch and to stick with it.
I think generally Sky Sports attracts 25-40 year old males who like sports and those should be the ones that the programmes are made for. If they enjoy the programme and think they might go on to try playing some poker, or go back to playing some poker, then hopefully they'll choose to play their poker on Sky Poker.
I think persuading the 50,000 that the kind of programme they want to watch is one that we would prefer them to watch may not help things and they could just switch off which won't really please Sky Sports or be any good for anyone.
Or is it outlawed to even sell the site in TV adverts?
FWIW I like the £100 challenge as part of the main show, a bit like the celebrity lap times on Top Gear, say. Perhaps the occasional non-poker player may help this even more (an extension of where famous sports stars appeared on the live cash games).