Would you make these calls?

Gamer11

I would just like to know if I am gambling by making these calls...

So the scenario is I am in last 10 in a £22 tournament. I am comfortable and someone with just less chips than me makes a push.

Would you call:

1. AJ off if you had AQ?
2. A8 off if you had 1010?
3. 66 if you had AK?

The first two times were for more chips and I did and both times I lost and eventually I made calls with AK against 66 and lost them to. I just want to know a round of a few opinions if you could take back time, would you make those calls.

If you need to know more I can provide more info if its not enough for you to make a decision.

Thank you guys

jakx85

HI Gamer11, of course we call all 3 hands here... were not totally sure what our op has or even what has been bet per/post flop if you upload the hand history if you know how to??? if not i can provide a simple link for you whick another player gave me which is great for forum discussion..... but as i said we normally bet all 3 hands here and pretty much know we have the better hand most times.

jakx85

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwc8VzwqiAI       link on youtube showing how to upload hand history... this was done just to show me by a fellow player which i found very useful, hopefully you will too  

TeddyBloat

You aren't calling v villains specific hand - unless we know he only takes an action with one specific hand  - and absent of good reads you arent even calling v one villain.

You are calling v a range of hands, played by a population of players.

I'd imagine all 3 hands in most late-stage mtg play will be strong enough to call v the populations GII range.

Note that it really doesnt matter what part of villains range shows up, nor what the final result is.

Imagine we have 88 and sb shoves into our bb @ 12bb. If calling 88 v his range is correct then its just as correct when villain turns over  AA as when he has 66. And if he spikes a 6 on the river when he has 66 we've still made the correct  play

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

You aren't calling v villains specific hand - unless we know he only takes an action with one specific hand  - and absent of good reads you arent even calling v one villain. You are calling v a range of hands, played by a population of players. I'd imagine all 3 hands in most late-stage mtg play will be strong enough to call v the populations GII range. Note that it really doesnt matter what part of villains range shows up, nor what the final result is. Imagine we have 88 and sb shoves into our bb @ 12bb. If calling 88 v his range is correct then its just as correct when villain turns over  AA as when he has 66. And if he spikes a 6 on the river when he has 66 we've still made the correct  play
Posted by TeddyBloat

This.

Gamer11

Thank you for the replies. I have come to the conclusion that sky's RNG is not good. Since I like playing in Pounds and enjoy the the 6 seater tournament styles I will just continue to enjoy my time here and pay little attention to odds and right play. It doesn't matter with online poker especially with sky. I am enjoying good success at pokerstars and I think I will use sky for basic fun. Cant take this site serious any longer. Thank you and good day.

Signing out for the last time.

All the best on the tables.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

Thank you for the replies. I have come to the conclusion that sky's RNG is not good. Since I like playing in Pounds and enjoy the the 6 seater tournament styles I will just continue to enjoy my time here and pay little attention to odds and right play. It doesn't matter with online poker especially with sky. I am enjoying good success at pokerstars and I think I will use sky for basic fun. Cant take this site serious any longer. Thank you and good day. Signing out for the last time. All the best on the tables.
Posted by Gamer11

See you next week.

Gamer11

Oh I still will be playing. But as far as I am concerned, sky RNG is RUBBISH!! End of

stuarty117

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

Oh I still will be playing. But as far as I am concerned, sky RNG is RUBBISH!! End of
Posted by Gamer11

Why the **** would you still be playing if you think the RNG is rubblish

Its like buying a car for 10k knowing its going to blow up within a week

If you cant cope with mtt variance then play DYMs or sit and goes

I would say a very good player eg Matt Bates (hope he doesnt mind me using his name) might only win 1 or 2 mtts on sky out of every 50.

Gamer11

Fair point abouting winning 1 or 2 out of 50. I am going to test the variance because so far I am getting burned by it. So hopefully it wont be too long til I get to enjoy the good side of variance. You have to understand I am not the type of player that goes to a lot of showdowns with pre flop all in calls or bets. If I do take someone out, it would normally be with them pushing all in on a good flop or turn for me and me just calling them. Other then that I play my cards and when I catch good I play for value. So on the rare occasions that I do snap someones all in and get it right I want to get my reward to a 70%+ call. 

So that is why I am staying to test this out. Hopefully you are right and the variance will even itself out in the long term.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

Fair point abouting winning 1 or 2 out of 50. I am going to test the variance because so far I am getting burned by it. So hopefully it wont be too long til I get to enjoy the good side of variance. You have to understand I am not the type of player that goes to a lot of showdowns with pre flop all in calls or bets. If I do take someone out, it would normally be with them pushing all in on a good flop or turn for me and me just calling them. Other then that I play my cards and when I catch good I play for value. So on the rare occasions that I do snap someones all in and get it right I want to get my reward to a 70%+ call.  So that is why I am staying to test this out. Hopefully you are right and the variance will even itself out in the long term.
Posted by Gamer11

How on earth are you going to ''test variance''? It's like saying you're gonna try and taste the air. It's there, but you can't do it.

I'm guessing you thought the RNG was ok when you won 2x £11 BH's late last year for close to £1k combined.

Perhaps there are aspects of your game you might want to tweak? Just playing your own cards will get you so far, but what about playing the player behind those cards? Just waiting to make hands and then value bet means you are probably missing out on loads of spots and opportunities to chip up and win pots.

If you get your chips in as a 70% fave, then you win that hand 70% of the time. This is indisputable. If you can grasp the basic maths then you might have half a chance with this game.

BigBluster

I think the OP is looking at it from the wrong angle. It is pure luck that he had such a dominant position. 

He called two hands with TT and AQ (quite properly). The villain separately shoved 66 and AJ.

The match-ups could easily have been:

TT v 66 & AQ v AJ in which the OP is in a dominant position.

Likewise, they could easily have been:

TT v AJ & 66 v AQ in which the OP is 50/50 over the two hands.

Both shoves and calls may be perfectly correct. It's nothing to do with the RNG, it's just chance.

Gamer11

And again no luck. Qualified for the 10k tournament tonight and my two big hands I play with an idiot who was pushing was:

AQ v 77 LOST

JJ V 99 LOST

When it matters I dont catch. But when I sit on a SNG I cant stop getting good hands. Is there two different systems being used? I dont know how to test variance. What I meant was simply I hope luck WILL go my way when it matters. So far I am still getting burnt for making right calls. The AQ v 77 I can accept. Coin flip fair enough. JJ V 99......yea right

Gamer11

you know what. its cool. I realise this is a grind if you actually want to turn a profit on this. Trusting myself in one tournament is pointless. I just have to keep making the right calls and see if my luck turns around. Hopefully one of my top pairs will hold against a lower pair eventually.......hopefully.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

And again no luck. Qualified for the 10k tournament tonight and my two big hands I play with an idiot who was pushing was: AQ v 77 LOST JJ V 99 LOST When it matters I dont catch. But when I sit on a SNG I cant stop getting good hands. Is there two different systems being used? I dont know how to test variance. What I meant was simply I hope luck WILL go my way when it matters. So far I am still getting burnt for making right calls. The AQ v 77 I can accept. Coin flip fair enough. JJ V 99......yea right
Posted by Gamer11

You're a lost cause unless you can change your mindset and realise a few things.

mrleemr1

The best hand does lose sometimes. Its called poker, thats the very reason why it is one of the most loved games in the world because 72 can beat AA

Gamer11

hh I understand what you are saying. Basically you are saying I need to bluff more and steal more pots. Or something along them lines. I get that. I get you. A ou trying to say I shouldn't make these calls? Are you saying that its a coin flip with someone has got 3 outs to survive against my cards? I am putting it down to bad luck because all day every day I will keep making those calls.

hhyftrftdr

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

hh I understand what you are saying. Basically you are saying I need to bluff more and steal more pots. Or something along them lines. I get that. I get you. A ou trying to say I shouldn't make these calls? Are you saying that its a coin flip with someone has got 3 outs to survive against my cards? I am putting it down to bad luck because all day every day I will keep making those calls.
Posted by Gamer11

No that's not what I'm saying.

You need to understand and grasp the maths aspect of the game. Underpairs beat overpairs sometimes. AQ beats AK sometimes etc. If it can happen in poker, then it can happen. It's frustrating (speaking from experience!), but if you can't get your head around it then it will have a detrimental effect on your game.

If you keep making the right decisions and correct calls, you will win money long term. It's as simple as that. Volume will even out variance, and skill will see you win £££. But it's a long term thing, absolutely pointless to look at stupidly small sample sizes.

Also, try getting it in bad/behind sometimes. Sounds like you might be passing up good spots in order to avoid being eliminated. Obv we don't wanna be KO'ed, but there is always the chance to get there by the river.....

Tikay10

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

hh I understand what you are saying. Basically you are saying I need to bluff more and steal more pots. Or something along them lines. I get that. I get you. A ou trying to say I shouldn't make these calls? Are you saying that its a coin flip with someone has got 3 outs to survive against my cards? I am putting it down to bad luck because all day every day I will keep making those calls.
Posted by Gamer11

Sometimes we have to call, & correctly.

However, the absolute basic of poker is be a raiser not a caller - that gives you TWO ways to win, instead of one. (Villain may fold, or out hand may hold up). Being a caller gives us only one way to win.

That is simple maths, not luck. Do the right things, & let the luck will take care of itself.  

Gamer11

All points taken on board thank you. But it seems my bad luck in MTTs and MTTs qualifiers continus with:

Q9 beating my JJ
AJ beating my QQ

and the final killer
A4 beating my AJ

and all with the final six. That saw me go from chip leader to struggler and out. Thanks Sky. 

You are right HH. I do fold good spots because I feel I wont make the river, but I will try that.

And Tikay can I ask you a question. I have known the whole "better to win two ways than one" strategy before. My question is if you know the kind of player you are up against who folds to your big bets but tries to bully to your weak bets. If you know you can get him in a situation like a hand above where he only has 3 outs at best, would you not play it weak and hope for an all in to make a call. Or would you still suggest just taking the blinds?

MattBates

In Response to Re: Would you make these calls?:

All points taken on board thank you. But it seems my bad luck in MTTs and MTTs qualifiers continus with: Q9 beating my JJ AJ beating my QQ and the final killer A4 beating my AJ and all with the final six. That saw me go from chip leader to struggler and out. Thanks Sky.  You are right HH. I do fold good spots because I feel I wont make the river, but I will try that. And Tikay can I ask you a question. I have known the whole "better to win two ways than one" strategy before. My question is if you know the kind of player you are up against who folds to your big bets but tries to bully to your weak bets. If you know you can get him in a situation like a hand above where he only has 3 outs at best, would you not play it weak and hope for an all in to make a call. Or would you still suggest just taking the blinds?
Posted by Gamer11

Firstly it is probably worth you spending some time to actually understand the odds behind hands then you might have more realistic expectations on how often you should win hands.

If you can exploit someone through bet sizings then do it, however it could be that you are betting in a manner that's being exploited.