Clearly freerolls are good...you can win money and they don't cost you anything, it's like tournaments with added money, tournaments with overlay and playing at a time when Sky have a great promotion on that means you win something (like the 28 trillionth hand or something). The difference is that these things are contested by all kinds of players whereas freerolls are contested only by people that are playing for free.
The implication is that many of your opponents won't be taking it seriously and they'll play badly. Maybe that playing badly will manifest itself in calling too much, in limping, in playing hands out of position, in being more likely to chase draws or in never believing any river bet.
The further implication is that if you hang around with these players who are playing badly all the time then you will become bad.
As usual the answer is "it depends".
As long as you are able to adjust your game to the ay the people are playing, whether you are playing an EPT Hi-Roller or a freeroll to win £2 then you are doing Ok. If people call too much you should make your value bets bigger and bluff less, if people limp a lot you should raise hands in position that you might sometimes call with like 7h8h or a pair of deuces, if people play hands out of position you should charge them a little bit more when raising their blinds and do it more often, if people chase draws you should always make them pay for their draws and not give free cards and if people never believe a river bet you should increase the size of your river bets and reduce the frequency of your bluffs.
There is a common phrase in poker..."I should move up in stakes so they respect my raises more". The implication is that bad players can become winners by playing against people who understand the game and know what I'm trying to do.
The simple fact is that you win way more playing against bad players than you ever will playing good players and if the freeroll players are bad then you should be Ok to beat them. If you are not good enough stepping up will just make it worse.
Whether they are the best use of your time is another question.
Honoured you visited my humble thread. I have "railed" you on numerous occasions trying to find your secret but mystified how you do it. Years of experience no doubt ...... born Poker player for sure ...... nerves of steel ! got the T shirt. Your parting shot is the crux of the matter ..... question .... would old dog waist time for little reward but small fish do, they become big fish with freeroll mentality and that type of play becoming the norm so changing the way the established game is played. If you are saying we should all adapt to the new way of playing easier said than done ; ie freeroll type play .... bang bang thank you mam all in every other hand more bingo than poker. Sky freeroll with no entry fee is promoting this type of play and I was asking ..... is this the way to go.? Priority type freeroll with established player different kettle of ( fish ) Oops players ..... so not saying this type of freeroll is harmful. We move on times change, some for the better ... just asking are freerolls good for us in the long run.?
No prob, it's an interesting topic. You seem to be saying that people play badly in these freerolls though...that they don't think too much and they move all-in too much, maybe with bad hands.
As thinking players we can benefit from that though. We just have to know which hands are favourite over a random hand if people literally shove any two cards blind, or which hands are favourite over the top 60% of hands if they fold their worst 40% or which hands are favourite over the top 80% if they fold their worst 20%.
You sound almost disappointed that people play realy badly at times just because it's free. People playing badly is a brilliant thing for us. We just have to adapt and play well againt the style that are opponents are playing.
As a general point though they are three people in any poker game...you...your opponent and the person who lays on the game whether that be a casino or an online card-room. If one of those three pumps money in in any way then that is good for the other two.
I don't really understand why the other people playing badly means that we are going to get worse/fall into their ways or learn bad errors. If my opponent plays bad and I play well then in the long run I'll win.
For a decent player like you Channing I would agree. I would say for the recs though, playing freerolls can easily get worse/lazy.
Take me as an example. I used to make proper money from poker and played a lot of the bigger games. These days I play pretty much only freerolls on a variety of sites and make around £100 a month pocket money. It is entirely my fault, I know the game well and could get back to winnings ways with some effort I am sure. even with the competition getting a lot harder. I play freerolls, blindly clicking and shoving with little thought process and playing about as lazily as possible. I play DYM's to clear points (on here and other sites) and when I do, I put a lot more thought into things. But all those lazy habits I have picked up from 'not caring too much' on freerolls show through on these buyin games.
So in conclusion, I think it CAN be a good thing and it CAN be a bad thing. It all depends on the kind of player that you are and what you wish to achieve.
I am gonna make more of an effort tonight and try and win the £1000 freeroll as a confidence boost so I can win tomorrows £5k game
For a decent player like you Channing I would agree. I would say for the recs though, playing freerolls can easily get worse/lazy. Take me as an example. I used to make proper money from poker and played a lot of the bigger games. These days I play pretty much only freerolls on a variety of sites and make around £100 a month pocket money. It is entirely my fault, I know the game well and could get back to winnings ways with some effort I am sure. even with the competition getting a lot harder. I play freerolls, blindly clicking and shoving with little thought process and playing about as lazily as possible. I play DYM's to clear points (on here and other sites) and when I do, I put a lot more thought into things. But all those lazy habits I have picked up from 'not caring too much' on freerolls show through on these buyin games. So in conclusion, I think it CAN be a good thing and it CAN be a bad thing. It all depends on the kind of player that you are and what you wish to achieve. I am gonna make more of an effort tonight and try and win the £1000 freeroll as a confidence boost so I can win tomorrows £5k game Posted by MrWh1te
So its your mindset and attitude that is the problem, not the freerolls?
In Response to Re: are freerolls bad for you.? : So its your mindset and attitude that is the problem, not the freerolls? People claiming freerolls are bad for you, YCMIU. Posted by hhyftrftdr
Yes, thank you for paraphrasing what I said, very helpful
I've been playing them these last couple of weeks and the good far outweighs the bad with them IMO.
The good is that you get a lot of practice about different players shoving ranges and also the relationship of your stack to the blinds.
The only negative is that you do have to remember to re-adjust calling decisions upwards when back in the paid tournaments. Clearly this is a very wide generalisation and I am really talking about the early to mid stage of the freeroll.
I find when they get down to the last third or whatever they play a lot more normally and fold equity comes into play.
As for the time argument, if you make the last 10 of the UKPC say then that's a £50 entry sat paying two you have got into free and the experience of playing at that level is invaluable.
Comments
Quite an interesting question this...
Clearly freerolls are good...you can win money and they don't cost you anything, it's like tournaments with added money, tournaments with overlay and playing at a time when Sky have a great promotion on that means you win something (like the 28 trillionth hand or something). The difference is that these things are contested by all kinds of players whereas freerolls are contested only by people that are playing for free.
The implication is that many of your opponents won't be taking it seriously and they'll play badly. Maybe that playing badly will manifest itself in calling too much, in limping, in playing hands out of position, in being more likely to chase draws or in never believing any river bet.
The further implication is that if you hang around with these players who are playing badly all the time then you will become bad.
As usual the answer is "it depends".
As long as you are able to adjust your game to the ay the people are playing, whether you are playing an EPT Hi-Roller or a freeroll to win £2 then you are doing Ok. If people call too much you should make your value bets bigger and bluff less, if people limp a lot you should raise hands in position that you might sometimes call with like 7h8h or a pair of deuces, if people play hands out of position you should charge them a little bit more when raising their blinds and do it more often, if people chase draws you should always make them pay for their draws and not give free cards and if people never believe a river bet you should increase the size of your river bets and reduce the frequency of your bluffs.
There is a common phrase in poker..."I should move up in stakes so they respect my raises more". The implication is that bad players can become winners by playing against people who understand the game and know what I'm trying to do.
The simple fact is that you win way more playing against bad players than you ever will playing good players and if the freeroll players are bad then you should be Ok to beat them. If you are not good enough stepping up will just make it worse.
Whether they are the best use of your time is another question.
Honoured you visited my humble thread. I have "railed" you on numerous occasions trying to find your secret but mystified how you do it. Years of experience no doubt ...... born Poker player for sure ...... nerves of steel ! got the T shirt.
Your parting shot is the crux of the matter ..... question .... would old dog waist time for little reward but small fish do, they become big fish with freeroll mentality and that type of play becoming the norm so changing the way the established game is played. If you are saying we should all adapt to the new way of playing easier said than done ; ie freeroll type play .... bang bang thank you mam all in every other hand more bingo than poker. Sky freeroll with no entry fee is promoting this type of play and I was asking ..... is this the way to go.? Priority type freeroll with established player different kettle of ( fish ) Oops players ..... so not saying this type of freeroll is harmful. We move on times change, some for the better ... just asking are freerolls good for us in the long run.?
No prob, it's an interesting topic. You seem to be saying that people play badly in these freerolls though...that they don't think too much and they move all-in too much, maybe with bad hands.
As thinking players we can benefit from that though. We just have to know which hands are favourite over a random hand if people literally shove any two cards blind, or which hands are favourite over the top 60% of hands if they fold their worst 40% or which hands are favourite over the top 80% if they fold their worst 20%.
You sound almost disappointed that people play realy badly at times just because it's free. People playing badly is a brilliant thing for us. We just have to adapt and play well againt the style that are opponents are playing.
As a general point though they are three people in any poker game...you...your opponent and the person who lays on the game whether that be a casino or an online card-room. If one of those three pumps money in in any way then that is good for the other two.
I don't really understand why the other people playing badly means that we are going to get worse/fall into their ways or learn bad errors. If my opponent plays bad and I play well then in the long run I'll win.
I would say for the recs though, playing freerolls can easily get worse/lazy.
Take me as an example. I used to make proper money from poker and played a lot of the bigger games.
These days I play pretty much only freerolls on a variety of sites and make around £100 a month pocket money.
It is entirely my fault, I know the game well and could get back to winnings ways with some effort I am sure. even with the competition getting a lot harder.
I play freerolls, blindly clicking and shoving with little thought process and playing about as lazily as possible. I play DYM's to clear points (on here and other sites) and when I do, I put a lot more thought into things. But all those lazy habits I have picked up from 'not caring too much' on freerolls show through on these buyin games.
So in conclusion, I think it CAN be a good thing and it CAN be a bad thing. It all depends on the kind of player that you are and what you wish to achieve.
I am gonna make more of an effort tonight and try and win the £1000 freeroll as a confidence boost so I can win tomorrows £5k game
People claiming freerolls are bad for you, YCMIU.
I've been playing them these last couple of weeks and the good far outweighs the bad with them IMO.
The good is that you get a lot of practice about different players shoving ranges and also the relationship of your stack to the blinds.
The only negative is that you do have to remember to re-adjust calling decisions upwards when back in the paid tournaments. Clearly this is a very wide generalisation and I am really talking about the early to mid stage of the freeroll.
I find when they get down to the last third or whatever they play a lot more normally and fold equity comes into play.
As for the time argument, if you make the last 10 of the UKPC say then that's a £50 entry sat paying two you have got into free and the experience of playing at that level is invaluable.
Would say more but the freeroll is starting!