The OP ask's us to put it into one of three catergories, it's certainly not against the rules so that leaves bad etiquette or fair enough.
Which is obviously down to opinion.
For me its a bit of both, if its not against the rules it has to be 'fair' enough but that does not stop it being very bad etiquette, imo.
I think in that spot I would try my best not to retort (lol) and use this new found image to our advantage, tighten up and we may get a few extra light calls with value hands, after a few times surely they will be believing the dent in their stacks more than that of a disgruntled stranger and we should be able to revert back to our natural style of play.
I have to say I don't believe what I'm saying is against any T+C's at all its not affecting the current hand in play. the hand is already over. Just the same way you attempt to get edge by showing QQ to force folds, surely im allowed to talk to the table and say thats my thought's on what you are doing. fwiw I was under defending vs cbets due to knowing you were aggresive but never picking up anything past super weak sd, never had any combo draws or reasonable rebluff combos. And i don't particularly want to start a 3 bet 4bet war vs a winning reg when I have edge by waiting against the rest of the field. I don't see any issue my saying that or saying wow he 3bets every hand. Anyway if someone from sky does reply and clarify i'd be glad to apologise / not do it again.
Fundimentally we all play poker for fun or for profit, If its in the rules it ought to be allowed no questions.
I have to say I don't believe what I'm saying is against any T+C's at all its not affecting the current hand in play. the hand is already over. Just the same way you attempt to get edge by showing QQ to force folds, surely im allowed to talk to the table and say thats my thought's on what you are doing. fwiw I was under defending vs cbets due to knowing you were aggresive but never picking up anything past super weak sd, never had any combo draws or reasonable rebluff combos. And i don't particularly want to start a 3 bet 4bet war vs a winning reg when I have edge by waiting against the rest of the field. I don't see any issue my saying that or saying wow he 3bets every hand. Anyway if someone from sky does reply and clarify i'd be glad to apologise / not do it again. Fundimentally we all play poker for fun or for profit, If its in the rules it ought to be allowed no questions. Posted by BarrattG1
No problem Barratt, as I said from the outset, your statement was not at all rude or offensive. It's just the question of a "grey area" in discussing other competitor's playing styles at the table.
I'm sure you did not do anything intentionally wrong, although how would you have felt if I had discussed your playing style with the others at the table, that had just joined us? Maybe it wouldn't have bothered you, I don't know.
If I'd have said, "You can steal his blind, cos he rarely defends" for example. Would that be OK to you? I think it is NOT OK for me to say that, which was why I resisted.
Anyway, I was going to leave it anonymous, so fair play to you for coming forward. I certainly do not harbour any grudge. It just prompted the question in my mind, as to how the "terms and conditions" of chat are interpreted.
I certainly do not have an issue with what happened, and seek no retribution at all. The fact that you've explained yourself on here, prepared to apologise, shows your character as a player and a person. So respect due to you there.
However, I would like some clarification, so we all know for future reference, about what is and what isn't acceptable, regarding the discussion of players styles, particularly on final tables.
So would appreciate some feedback from Sky, for us all to know for future reference.
Back in the day I played on this account with a different nickname.
Two guys decided to have an issue with me (I think after I stuck up for someone they were abusing) and they proceeded to follow me around the table for over 3 weeks, telling people how they thought I played and what cards they thought I had.
I ignored/adapted at first but it soon got so boring and I complained and sky's answer was they could not act on it because it wasn't against the rules but would change my alias so that it stops (I don't mind saying now, I am more grown up to deal with it.)
(It does make me sad when I look at comparisons of my sharkscope results though, I was 65.9% ROI with my other alias playing only MTT's, and -9% now playing DYM's, although I think I am more in profit now because of taking advantage of promotions etc and being wiser, maybe I need to go back to MTT's lol)
Back in the day I played on this account with a different nickname. Two guys decided to have an issue with me (I think after I stuck up for someone they were abusing) and they proceeded to follow me around the table for over 3 weeks, telling people how they thought I played and what cards they thought I had. I ignored/adapted at first but it soon got so boring and I complained and sky's answer was they could not act on it because it wasn't against the rules but would change my alias so that it stops (I don't mind saying now, I am more grown up to deal with it.) (It does make me sad when I look at comparisons of my sharkscope results though, I was 65.9% ROI with my other alias playing only MTT's, and -9% now playing DYM's, although I think I am more in profit now because of taking advantage of promotions etc and being wiser, maybe I need to go back to MTT's lol) Posted by MrWh1te
In Response to Re: BAD ETIQUETTE, AGAINST THE RULES, OR FAIR ENOUGH? COULD SKY INPUT PLEASE? : Ahh, there you are, weve been looking for you. Posted by mumsie
In Response to Re: BAD ETIQUETTE, AGAINST THE RULES, OR FAIR ENOUGH? : No problem Barratt, as I said from the outset, your statement was not at all rude or offensive. It's just the question of a "grey area" in discussing other competitor's playing styles at the table. I'm sure you did not do anything intentionally wrong, although how would you have felt if I had discussed your playing style with the others at the table, that had just joined us? Maybe it wouldn't have bothered you, I don't know. If I'd have said, "You can steal his blind, cos he rarely defends" for example. Would that be OK to you? I think it is NOT OK for me to say that, which was why I resisted. Anyway, I was going to leave it anonymous, so fair play to you for coming forward. I certainly do not harbour any grudge. It just prompted the question in my mind, as to how the "terms and conditions" of chat are interpreted. I certainly do not have an issue with what happened, and seek no retribution at all. The fact that you've explained yourself on here, prepared to apologise, shows your character as a player and a person. So respect due to you there. However, I would like some clarification, so we all know for future reference, about what is and what isn't acceptable, regarding the discussion of players styles, particularly on final tables. So would appreciate some feedback from Sky, for us all to know for future reference. Cheers, Graham Posted by StayOrGo
As far as I am aware, Graham, it's not against any specific rules as such.
Feels a bit dirty in some ways, but that's purely subjective. I'd be a shade miffed if it happened to me, but its not the end of the world.
A good friend of mine, Steve Jelenik, won a WSOP bracelet at PLO8 (& a quarter of a milly $$) back in 2010.
2 years later, he & I shared a PLO table at the Wynn Summer Classic.
Steve makes some very unorthodox plays, & several at the table started dissing Steve. Steve, as was his habit, said nothing, took no notice.
The dissing continued, & he was a friend, so I did what I thought was the right thing - I defended him by telling the table he was a WSOP Bracelet Winner, so a little more respect was in order.
At the next break, Steve came across to me & said "thanks for nothing, Tony".
"Eh, what's up Steve?"
"You blew my cover, Tony - nobody knew who I was, I was creating an image & you destroyed it by telling them I won a Bracelet".
I felt pretty bad, & after that, I always kept schtum in those spots.
Hard one this showing a hand to create an image then not being happy when someone else points out something else you are doing I don't show anything mainly because it would backfire on me and it would mean messing with the settings then all he'll would break out
Interesting. I think if you retaliated it just validates his comments. I usually just respond with some rubbish like 'i only 3bet queens better' or 'It was either 3bet or fold'. If you commented saying 'DON'T BLUFF x PLAYER HE CALLS REALLY LIGHT, your giving information away about their game, which would be unfair. It makes no sense for him to share this information with the table if the player is still in the tournament, it surely makes more sense to exploit your perceived wide 3betting range by 4betting light for example. Not against the rules, but imo falls into 'bad etiquette'. I disagree that it's a 'non-issue' as some have said it is. I think it's a reasonable question.
3 Irish players, known to each other, were on the table. By the river, one was still in the hand with me. I had called every street. On the river, he raised and I shoved all-in.
The guy tanked. His two friends started to say things like, "it doesn't make any sense". The three of them had a conversation about this.
I felt that was wrong for the two others to comment.
I didn't say anything. He folded after 5 minutes. He asked what I had, I didn't say. Even at the break.
I don't play many events live, so I am guessing that was not correct.
Some might recall my newbie mistakes too. In Dublin, there were some memorable ones. I had quad Kings and wanted to re-raise but threw one big chip. Another briilaint moment was when I waited for a player to my right to bet and waited motionless for 10 minutes as I heard the TD count the clock down on him. I didn't realise he had folded a long time before and everyone was waiting for me.
To round off the story... I had a flight back to Edinburgh and had to leave at 6pm to get to Dublin Airport in time. I also had a second flight pre-booked too, for the next morning but no hotel for that night. The only other person who knew what was happening was Tikay. My decision was actually only to do with not wanting to sleep in the airport overnight. So I was re-raise shoving with an awful lot.
And just to add, I cashed. I even took chips off Julian Thew in one hand. I slept on a chair in McDonalds at Dublin Airport and caught the 7am flight home.
A good friend of mine, Steve Jelenik, won a WSOP bracelet at PLO8 (& a quarter of a milly $$) back in 2010. 2 years later, he & I shared a PLO table at the Wynn Summer Classic. Steve makes some very unorthodox plays, & several at the table started dissing Steve. Steve, as was his habit, said nothing, took no notice. The dissing continued, & he was a friend, so I did what I thought was the right thing - I defended him by telling the table he was a WSOP Bracelet Winner, so a little more respect was in order. At the next break, Steve came across to me & said "thanks for nothing, Tony". "Eh, what's up Steve?" "You blew my cover, Tony - nobody knew who I was, I was creating an image & you destroyed it by telling them I won a Bracelet". I felt pretty bad, & after that, I always kept schtum in those spots. Posted by Tikay10
Thanks for the feedback TK.
Interesting story about Steve Jelenik. So I think we're saying, it's not against the rules but probably is bad etiquette and in general it is advisable to keep knowledge of your opponents to oneself.
I didn't respond at the time, as I try to refrain from escalatory behaviour. However, I was genuinely interested and unsure of the ruling.
I have received a PM from BarrattG1 apologising, so he's clearly a good guy, and I have much respect for how he has responded. I'm sure there was no attempt to gain an edge, and I believe he will be more considerate/aware in these situations in the future.
Clearly perception of playing styles on FT's is very important, and perhaps keeping one's knowledge to oneself is best for you and the opponent concerned. Most people know how I play, but sometimes there are "new" people on the table that may take a little while to work this out.
Thanks all, for the feedback, even the Drama Queen one lol. GL in your games :=)
i had something similar live in an SPT in Dublin. 3 Irish players, known to each other, were on the table. By the river, one was still in the hand with me. I had called every street. On the river, he raised and I shoved all-in. The guy tanked. His two friends started to say things like, "it doesn't make any sense". The three of them had a conversation about this. I felt that was wrong for the two others to comment. I didn't say anything. He folded after 5 minutes. He asked what I had, I didn't say. Even at the break. I don't play many events live, so I am guessing that was not correct. Some might recall my newbie mistakes too. In Dublin, there were some memorable ones. I had quad Kings and wanted to re-raise but threw one big chip. Another briilaint moment was when I waited for a player to my right to bet and waited motionless for 10 minutes as I heard the TD count the clock down on him. I didn't realise he had folded a long time before and everyone was waiting for me. To round off the story... I had a flight back to Edinburgh and had to leave at 6pm to get to Dublin Airport in time. I also had a second flight pre-booked too, for the next morning but no hotel for that night. The only other person who knew what was happening was Tikay. My decision was actually only to do with not wanting to sleep in the airport overnight. So I was re-raise shoving with an awful lot. And just to add, I cashed. I even took chips off Julian Thew in one hand. I slept on a chair in McDonalds at Dublin Airport and caught the 7am flight home. Posted by aussie09
This is against the rules in most casinos. Players not involved in the hand, should not discuss the hand in progress. Love the "clock" story :=)
Comments
The OP ask's us to put it into one of three catergories, it's certainly not against the rules so that leaves bad etiquette or fair enough.
Which is obviously down to opinion.
For me its a bit of both, if its not against the rules it has to be 'fair' enough but that does not stop it being very bad etiquette, imo.
I think in that spot I would try my best not to retort (lol) and use this new found image to our advantage, tighten up and we may get a few extra light calls with value hands, after a few times surely they will be believing the dent in their stacks more than that of a disgruntled stranger and we should be able to revert back to our natural style of play.
Anyway if someone from sky does reply and clarify i'd be glad to apologise / not do it again.
Fundimentally we all play poker for fun or for profit, If its in the rules it ought to be allowed no questions.
I'm sure you did not do anything intentionally wrong, although how would you have felt if I had discussed your playing style with the others at the table, that had just joined us? Maybe it wouldn't have bothered you, I don't know.
If I'd have said, "You can steal his blind, cos he rarely defends" for example. Would that be OK to you? I think it is NOT OK for me to say that, which was why I resisted.
Anyway, I was going to leave it anonymous, so fair play to you for coming forward. I certainly do not harbour any grudge. It just prompted the question in my mind, as to how the "terms and conditions" of chat are interpreted.
I certainly do not have an issue with what happened, and seek no retribution at all. The fact that you've explained yourself on here, prepared to apologise, shows your character as a player and a person. So respect due to you there.
However, I would like some clarification, so we all know for future reference, about what is and what isn't acceptable, regarding the discussion of players styles, particularly on final tables.
So would appreciate some feedback from Sky, for us all to know for future reference.
Cheers,
Graham
Back in the day I played on this account with a different nickname.
Two guys decided to have an issue with me (I think after I stuck up for someone they were abusing) and they proceeded to follow me around the table for over 3 weeks, telling people how they thought I played and what cards they thought I had.
I ignored/adapted at first but it soon got so boring and I complained and sky's answer was they could not act on it because it wasn't against the rules but would change my alias so that it stops (I don't mind saying now, I am more grown up to deal with it.)
(It does make me sad when I look at comparisons of my sharkscope results though, I was 65.9% ROI with my other alias playing only MTT's, and -9% now playing DYM's, although I think I am more in profit now because of taking advantage of promotions etc and being wiser, maybe I need to go back to MTT's lol)
This was back in the days when I was playing like the like of Scotty on microstakes, min buying in and doubling up loads. I learnt a lot from him
Feels a bit dirty in some ways, but that's purely subjective. I'd be a shade miffed if it happened to me, but its not the end of the world.
A good friend of mine, Steve Jelenik, won a WSOP bracelet at PLO8 (& a quarter of a milly $$) back in 2010.
2 years later, he & I shared a PLO table at the Wynn Summer Classic.
Steve makes some very unorthodox plays, & several at the table started dissing Steve. Steve, as was his habit, said nothing, took no notice.
The dissing continued, & he was a friend, so I did what I thought was the right thing - I defended him by telling the table he was a WSOP Bracelet Winner, so a little more respect was in order.
At the next break, Steve came across to me & said "thanks for nothing, Tony".
"Eh, what's up Steve?"
"You blew my cover, Tony - nobody knew who I was, I was creating an image & you destroyed it by telling them I won a Bracelet".
I felt pretty bad, & after that, I always kept schtum in those spots.
i had something similar live in an SPT in Dublin.
3 Irish players, known to each other, were on the table. By the river, one was still in the hand with me. I had called every street. On the river, he raised and I shoved all-in.
The guy tanked. His two friends started to say things like, "it doesn't make any sense". The three of them had a conversation about this.
I felt that was wrong for the two others to comment.
I didn't say anything. He folded after 5 minutes. He asked what I had, I didn't say. Even at the break.
I don't play many events live, so I am guessing that was not correct.
Some might recall my newbie mistakes too. In Dublin, there were some memorable ones. I had quad Kings and wanted to re-raise but threw one big chip. Another briilaint moment was when I waited for a player to my right to bet and waited motionless for 10 minutes as I heard the TD count the clock down on him. I didn't realise he had folded a long time before and everyone was waiting for me.
To round off the story... I had a flight back to Edinburgh and had to leave at 6pm to get to Dublin Airport in time. I also had a second flight pre-booked too, for the next morning but no hotel for that night. The only other person who knew what was happening was Tikay. My decision was actually only to do with not wanting to sleep in the airport overnight. So I was re-raise shoving with an awful lot.
And just to add, I cashed. I even took chips off Julian Thew in one hand. I slept on a chair in McDonalds at Dublin Airport and caught the 7am flight home.