In Response to Re: Micro Stakes : QQ vs limped 1010 and the limp was intended to trap as he'd done it 99.9% of the hands he played for the 2+ hours I was sat with him. 2's my limit by the way, tried 3 and couldn't cope. Posted by 1281
you said you knew he was trapping you were right you lost the hand but i think you would be happy to play qq against 1010 everytime if you are getting upset with the way people play that might cause you to play differant your read was good your luck was bad
Im thinking multi-tabling can cause some of these problems with bad calls and the like.I cant see how a player can play to their optimum with many tables open.It must lead to missing the table dynamics, with players coming and going.Im interested in why some of whom i know to be the best players on sky get busted early quite often.Taking all the analysis,strategy etc from Graham Carters ukpc thread, how is it possible to apply his thoughts to online poker, with far less time to act.I was told multi-tabling allows you to play the better hands, but in Grahams thread good hands are often irrelevant as there are so many other factors to think about.I am talking mtts though. Posted by chilling
Its not about playing to your optimum on one table its about playing with the table count that gives you the best hourly. Say 1 tabling gives you a 50% ROI and adding another table drops this down to 40% it is worth adding the extra table in as we make more money and ith the vast experience some players have (say 20k+ MTTs played online) a lot of decisions are fairly easy. These players are used to multi tabling, keeping an eye on dynamics etc. They wont make perfect decisions, whilst we strive for this we dont need to do this to win MTTs.
Also you are comparing a live £1k tournament to online games which isnt a fair comparison.
You cant analyse these games too much. If a player has more chips than you, they'll be playing any old trash with no connection whatsoever. They got big that way in the first place, then they keep hitting and getting bigger, so they'll carry on with cards that make no sense to the board. Don't forget minimum wage is now £7.20 an hour unless you're a youngster. So £2.20 games are less than loose change these days to most. So don't expect poker strategy in these games when it's more likely they're just messing around.. Posted by thefa1lacy
Of course you can analyse play. It might be some play doesnt make sense but its about thinking one level above your opponent. If your opponent wont fold one pair, dont bluff them. Make a hand and value bet bigger than normal. Part of poker is about assigning ranges and acting accordingly.
In Response to Re: Micro Stakes : Matt, My stake: 13.4k UTG+1 has me covered slightly Next: far less than me & average Both blinds are regs and around my chip stack Honestly re both limpers, any two cards. This was evident in some of the ridiculous pots they'd been picking up all night. Posted by 1281
Also need to know about their post flop tendencies, will they hit one pair and go mad. Are they passive post flop? Also are they limping and calling any raise pre? I would have thought 5x pre would be about where I would go after 2 limpers but depends on so many factors. If they are limp calling wide pre and only betting when they hit we can play a wide range and it only matters about our cards when they hit the flop. So you can laydown post when they show strength unless we have hit big as we win enough chips on the ocassions when they miss.
In Response to Re: Micro Stakes : Its not about playing to your optimum on one table its about playing with the table count that gives you the best hourly. Say 1 tabling gives you a 50% ROI and adding another table drops this down to 40% it is worth adding the extra table in as we make more money and ith the vast experience some players have (say 20k+ MTTs played online) a lot of decisions are fairly easy. These players are used to multi tabling, keeping an eye on dynamics etc. They wont make perfect decisions, whilst we strive for this we dont need to do this to win MTTs. Also you are comparing a live £1k tournament to online games which isnt a fair comparison. Posted by MattBates
Im sure, and i know, that there are players with several tables open that are not looking at ROI% specifically, but are just playing their games.
The difference between a pro and a rec i suppose.This thread refers to micro stakes though where you are unlikely to find a pro.Also the league players wont be interested too much in ROI% as they are playing for points, whilst multi-tabling.Although points and cash come hand in hand.
In Response to Re: Micro Stakes : Also need to know about their post flop tendencies, will they hit one pair and go mad. Are they passive post flop? Also are they limping and calling any raise pre? I would have thought 5x pre would be about where I would go after 2 limpers but depends on so many factors. If they are limp calling wide pre and only betting when they hit we can play a wide range and it only matters about our cards when they hit the flop. So you can laydown post when they show strength unless we have hit big as we win enough chips on the ocassions when they miss. Posted by MattBates
Matt, I went x5 pre and got one caller who was utg+1. Flop comes 7K2 rainbow. He checks which means he's not hit the King because he's donk lead when hit top pair previously. I've bet x5 again with he snaps off immediately. Turn comes a Jack to which he checks again. I bet 3/4 pot which looking back was probably a mistake with what I'd left behind, but again he snap calls. River comes 10 to which he checks again. I push he calls. He limped pre with 1010.
Karim,that table was very laggy , i find waiting for a good hands then betting bigger pre is optimal against lag players at micro stakes and knowing there style and range which is pretty wide also helps slightly
when they bet big you know they,ve hit big you fold , when they min bet the flop re-raise big most of the time they will fold, when you hit big ramp the pot up cuz you know they will come along with 2nd or 3rd pair
i know where your coming from tho m8 when they limp call and the boards pretty dry you can,t help thinking they have that two pair cuz they call with a2c you just have to try and minimise your losses in those spots but punish them when you have the big hand
you,re a good low stakes player Karim you just have to stick at it and your time will come again
Karim,that table was very laggy , i find waiting for a good hands then betting bigger pre is optimal against lag players at micro stakes and knowing there style and range which is pretty wide also helps slightly when they bet big you know they,ve hit big you fold , when they min bet the flop re-raise big most of the time they will fold, when you hit big ramp the pot up cuz you know they will come along with 2nd or 3rd pair i know where your coming from tho m8 when they limp call and the boards pretty dry you can,t help thinking they have that two pair cuz they call with a2c you just have to try and minimise your losses in those spots but punish them when you have the big hand you,re a good low stakes player Karim you just have to stick at it and your time will come again gl brother.Sean Posted by stokefc
Cheers Sean. No doubt I'll be playing the DTD's tonight. With the chat box most definitely switched off!!!
I think your hand thats posted is just an example of players that get attatched to their hand and are unlikely to fold at any cost.I find when i do the odd bit of railing at lower buyins, these type of outcomes occur frequently.Thats why i disagree with some players opinions on online poker being 60%skill and40%luck. These type of outcomes are the ones you should suck up and move on, as they are likely to happen again.
In Response to Re: Micro Stakes : Matt, I went x5 pre and got one caller who was utg+1. Flop comes 7K2 rainbow. He checks which means he's not hit the King because he's donk lead when hit top pair previously. I've bet x5 again with he snaps off immediately. Turn comes a Jack to which he checks again. I bet 3/4 pot which looking back was probably a mistake with what I'd left behind, but again he snap calls. River comes 10 to which he checks again. I push he calls. He limped pre with 1010. Posted by 1281
Hand looks fine although In am not sure what calls 3 streets so maybe check river.
In summary, our opponent will often play sub optimally but it doesnt mean they cant hit their outs. You cant win 100% of the time an opponent plays badly. In fact you want bad plays to be rewarded so our opponents do it again! Dont be results orientated and look at any hand in islocation.
In Response to Re: Micro Stakes : Hand looks fine although In am not sure what calls 3 streets so maybe check river. In summary, our opponent will often play sub optimally but it doesnt mean they cant hit their outs. You cant win 100% of the time an opponent plays badly. In fact you want bad plays to be rewarded so our opponents do it again! Dont be results orientated and look at any hand in islocation. Posted by MattBates
Matt,
It wasnt my intention to make a big deal out of the hand but more the post went along i got compelled to discuss. My original post / moan was largely due to volume of times in happens at this level. I'm back playing both tonight after my massive one days rest!!!!
exit hand, button min raised with me in bb with aq suited, shoved with 15.5k chips on 600/1200, button dwelled but eventually called with 76 suited. His flush came on the turn.
7.45. Came 7th from 73 with a cash of £5.50
exit hand, utg limped with with me in bb with around 13k in chips, limper well has me covered and im in last place. King on the flop but otherwise dry board. I shove he snaps instantly with K9!!!!! limping utg with k9 one off the final table!!!
Pleased with my game tonight so onwards to tomorrow i suppose.
Comments