In Response to Re: Potential Deviations in Player Account Totals : I don't do cash games anymore. I do DYMs. I know the tendency is to go "the player is just stupid" but that's just unhelpful when they may genuinely be an issue. Posted by PkDevil
I didn't say you were stupid just gave a potential explanation why you had an issue. I have never heard of this being an issue. I know of lots of players that keep their own records and reconcile back to account balance. Based on this I think you need to check details first rather than accuse sky of any wrongdoings.
In Response to Re: Potential Deviations in Player Account Totals : I notice from Sharkscope that you seem to play a goodly number of DYM's every session. Do you have a Sharkscope subscription? If so, it's a handy "double check" to check your DYM results after each session on Sharkscope. DYM's are the LEAST likely to be wrong, or cause headaches with account balances, as the formula (double, minus Reg fee) is so simple. When you encountered these errors, how were they corrected & what did Support give as the reason? If I can help further (further?.....), just ask. Good luck. Posted by Tikay10
I use the free Sharkscope at the moment but may well upgrade in the near future. I play only 10 DYMs a session with a good hour or slightly more break between. There is not a huge volume of simple this is what you win, this is what you lose games to make for likely confusion (although of course anything is possible). Here is the situation:
I start my session with first game listed as 16:13:03 yesterday (07/04/17) and do 10 £0.28 DYMs finishing at 17:30:01. My account balance as per my records (and as recorded on my screen) was £282.43.
I win 6 and lose 4. That means assuming the rake has not changed that I win 6 x £0.22 (£1.32) and lose 4 x £0.28 (£1.12). £1.32 winnings - £1.12 loss = £0.20 profit for session. My account balance should now be £282.63 but instead it is £282.33 meaning instead of gaining £0.20, I have lost £0.30.
The account balance did not correct itself and I know it sounds trivial but it adds up. If this was at the £5 or £10 level that's a lot of money overtime bearing in mind this has happened twice to me this week alone.
Support were as good as useless. They basically went "you are wrong and we are right. Suck on it."
Now the problem doesn't seem to be the ins and outs of the account. I sent a screenshot of that and apparently it was the same. However, the amount they think I started with was different to the amount on my screen and in my records hence the deviation.
Now I'm quite happy to let it go on this occasion with such a small amount of money involved but I definitely will not let it go when those pence become £s....
it's just the principle that this sort of stuff can happen and Sky just want to go, nope, not us. Nothing ever goes wrong. We're great. Our software is completely flawless.
Come on guys. I think you're the best site around. Please don't prove me wrong.
In Response to Re: Potential Deviations in Player Account Totals : I use the free Sharkscope at the moment but may well upgrade in the near future. I play only 10 DYMs a session with a good hour or slightly more break between. There is not a huge volume of simple this is what you win, this is what you lose games to make for likely confusion (although of course anything is possible). Here is the situation: I start my session with first game listed as 16:13:03 yesterday (07/04/17) and do 10 £0.28 DYMs finishing at 17:30:01. My account balance as per my records (and as recorded on my screen) was £282.43. I win 6 and lose 4. That means assuming the rake has not changed that I win 6 x £0.22 (£1.32) and lose 4 x £0.28 (£1.12). £1.32 winnings - £1.12 loss = £0.20 profit for session. My account balance should now be £282.63 but instead it is £282.33 meaning instead of gaining £0.20, I have lost £0.30. The account balance did not correct itself and I know it sounds trivial but it adds up. If this was at the £5 or £10 level that's a lot of money overtime bearing in mind this has happened twice to me this week alone. Support were as good as useless. They basically went "you are wrong and we are right. Suck on it." Now the problem doesn't seem to be the ins and outs of the account. I sent a screenshot of that and apparently it was the same. However, the amount they think I started with was different to the amount on my screen and in my records hence the deviation. Now I'm quite happy to let it go on this occasion with such a small amount of money involved but I definitely will not let it go when those pence become £s.... it's just the principle that this sort of stuff can happen and Sky just want to go, nope, not us. Nothing ever goes wrong. We're great. Our software is completely flawless. Come on guys. I think you're the best site around. Please don't prove me wrong. Posted by PkDevil
In Response to Re: Potential Deviations in Player Account Totals : I use the free Sharkscope at the moment but may well upgrade in the near future. I play only 10 DYMs a session with a good hour or slightly more break between. Posted by PkDevil
And this is why you are getting missing currency.
1) Sharkscope misses results from time to time as Stars have to collect the data themselves - This happens particularly with SNGs where it's harder to spot a missing game.
2) Sharkscope converts everything to dollars, then back to pounds, so you get rounding errors. I've had sessions where I've played exclusively £5.50 DYMs and Sharkscope says I've won £23.17 at the end of it for that reason, which clearly isn't possible.
Sharkscope is handy, but it's not 100% reliable.
---
For what it's worth, if you play cash, cash hand history can be very neatly copied and pasted (a page at a time) into Excel, it'll format itself into the cells neatly when you paste, then you just have to sum all the profit/loss for each hand. You should find that it adds up to your total profit/loss for the session. Is time consuming but will hopefully convince you that all is well.
In Response to Re: Potential Deviations in Player Account Totals : And this is why you are getting missing currency. 1) Sharkscope misses results from time to time as Stars have to collect the data themselves - This happens particularly with SNGs where it's harder to spot a missing game. 2) Sharkscope converts everything to dollars, then back to pounds, so you get rounding errors. I've had sessions where I've played exclusively £5.50 DYMs and Sharkscope says I've won £23.17 at the end of it for that reason, which clearly isn't possible. Sharkscope is handy, but it's not 100% reliable. --- For what it's worth, if you play cash, cash hand history can be very neatly copied and pasted (a page at a time) into Excel, it'll format itself into the cells neatly when you paste, then you just have to sum all the profit/loss for each hand. You should find that it adds up to your total profit/loss for the session. Is time consuming but will hopefully convince you that all is well. Posted by EvilPingu
I did not say I used Sharkscope for keeping a record of my incomings and outgoings. I said I use Sharkscope. I use it to get an idea of other player's performances not for record keeping....And that is what I did Pingu....and it didn't add up.
It's very easy for people to sit back and make sarcastic/numb-brained comments isn't it? I have my own records. The amount in my account matched the amount in my poker account when I began the session. I made a profit but instead I lost money. It has happened more than once.
I hope it happens to some of you and I will tell you how it must be your record keeping that is in error. How you must have added up your totals wrong. How it is just not possible. And you will see how infuriating it is.
As for this thread I am done. But before I go I want to make it clear that I am not accusing Sky of anything. There just appeared to be an issue and I wanted to have it looked into seriously and explained to me. The fact that has not happened says a lot.
In Response to Re: Potential Deviations in Player Account Totals : I use the free Sharkscope at the moment but may well upgrade in the near future. I play only 10 DYMs a session with a good hour or slightly more break between. There is not a huge volume of simple this is what you win, this is what you lose games to make for likely confusion (although of course anything is possible). Here is the situation: I start my session with first game listed as 16:13:03 yesterday (07/04/17) and do 10 £0.28 DYMs finishing at 17:30:01. My account balance as per my records (and as recorded on my screen) was £282.43. I win 6 and lose 4. That means assuming the rake has not changed that I win 6 x £0.22 (£1.32) and lose 4 x £0.28 (£1.12). £1.32 winnings - £1.12 loss = £0.20 profit for session. My account balance should now be £282.63 but instead it is £282.33 meaning instead of gaining £0.20, I have lost £0.30. The account balance did not correct itself and I know it sounds trivial but it adds up. If this was at the £5 or £10 level that's a lot of money overtime bearing in mind this has happened twice to me this week alone. Support were as good as useless. They basically went "you are wrong and we are right. Suck on it." Now the problem doesn't seem to be the ins and outs of the account. I sent a screenshot of that and apparently it was the same. However, the amount they think I started with was different to the amount on my screen and in my records hence the deviation. Now I'm quite happy to let it go on this occasion with such a small amount of money involved but I definitely will not let it go when those pence become £s.... it's just the principle that this sort of stuff can happen and Sky just want to go, nope, not us. Nothing ever goes wrong. We're great. Our software is completely flawless. Come on guys. I think you're the best site around. Please don't prove me wrong. Posted by PkDevil
Maybe this is the problem your calculations are wrong and calculations about own balance.
if you win 6 dyms you win 6 x 25p = 1.50 as its 0.25 +0.03 rake
Also if you put a bet on your poker balance dosnt always update you sometimes have to click on my account or refresh a few times just for it to catch up.
Sky arnt going to risk everything by taking a few pence off people.
So reading through this PK is playing 28p DYMs (25p+3p rake)
These used to be until recently 30p (25p+5p rake)
although Sky is almost certainly correct with the poker balances, maybe there is a problem with the somewhat recent change.
Side note incorrect poker points being awarded for mtts is very common, last time i played the £22 midnight bh i recieved 10 poker points instead of 20, many other tourneys do similar
In Response to Re: Potential Deviations in Player Account Totals : Maybe this is the problem your calculations are wrong and calculations about own balance. if you win 6 dyms you win 6 x 25p = 1.50 as its 0.25 +0.03 rake Also if you put a bet on your poker balance dosnt always update you sometimes have to click on my account or refresh a few times just for it to catch up. Sky arnt going to risk everything by taking a few pence off people. Posted by stuarty117
That's a fantastic take on it. It is also a weird way of looking at profit and loss. Profit is the amount you make over what you paid to enter in the game. Loss is the amount you have deducted when you lose the game. It doesn't matter what is the amount you paid to another player and the amount you paid to the house. The amount credited into your account beyond your buy-in is your profit and the amount deducted is your loss. It's that simple.
The £0.22 that is credited to the account when in profit has already taken into consideration the £0.28 you have been given back from your buy-in....That they credit me £0.50 and deduct £0.28 in the same transaction per win does not change the total amount credited. It is still £0.22 per win. End of.
So again, I won 6 games which gives me £0.22 worth of profit per game (£1.32) and I lost 4 games at £0.28 debt which gives me a loss total of £1.12. And again the result is £0.20 profit....
You don't have to agree with this but trust me I've been playing Dyms enough and checking my account ins and outs enough to know what I get given each time I win and get taken each time I lose.
The rake is irrelevant for the purposes of working out the total. The total is simply the total credit amounts versus the total debt amounts. That's it. If I get 6 x £0.22 credits for the 6 games I win and get 4 x £0.28 debts for the games I lose than the amount is still the same.
Either that or Sky are taking even more rake then everybody thinks. Sky??? ;-)
It was a winning session, end of. Now where is my money? (And by that I don't mean my main bankroll which I recently re-transferred back to Paypal to protect it against other unforeseen debits).
For the record the reg fee on a £0.25 DYM is 3p, not 6p. A post which has suggested it was 6p has been deleted by the author. Posted by Tikay10
Quite correct. It was deleted because it was incorrect and the intention of deletion was to not bring into the forum debate as we only want accurate information presented to players - see my revised..and non-deleted addition ;-) TK .. above.
This was mildly amusing at first and is now just irritating
Sky aren't looking to rip people off for a few pence
I've been with Sky now for a good few years and there has never been the slightest problem with my account. This statement doesn't make me numb brained by the way.
I have a conditional offer
Pm me and I'll send you the 50p or whatever it is. In return you stop with the tedium.
Ok. Look. It's not my intention to upset people or to knock down Sky. I love Sky Poker and I think it is a great site overall, so let's get that straight. So i'll make this my last post to keep the peace...not because Jac wants me to shut up... but because I want to keep this a friendly place for everybody.
So on that note I give permission (not that they need it but here is my blessing) to delete this thread if it is believed it could in anyway cause further issue or cause damage to Sky's reputation.
Now i'll leave it be and I look forward to playing with some of you at the tables at some point.
Ok. Look. It's not my intention to upset people or to knock down Sky. I love Sky Poker and I think it is a great site overall, so let's get that straight. So i'll make this my last post to keep the peace...not because Jac wants me to shut up... but because I want to keep this a friendly place for everybody. So on that note I give permission (not that they need it but here is my blessing) to delete this thread if it is believed it could in anyway cause further issue or cause damage to Sky's reputation. Now i'll leave it be and I look forward to playing with some of you at the tables at some point. Posted by PkDevil
Comments
I start my session with first game listed as 16:13:03 yesterday (07/04/17) and do 10 £0.28 DYMs finishing at 17:30:01. My account balance as per my records (and as recorded on my screen) was £282.43.
I win 6 and lose 4. That means assuming the rake has not changed that I win 6 x £0.22 (£1.32) and lose 4 x £0.28 (£1.12). £1.32 winnings - £1.12 loss = £0.20 profit for session. My account balance should now be £282.63 but instead it is £282.33 meaning instead of gaining £0.20, I have lost £0.30.
The account balance did not correct itself and I know it sounds trivial but it adds up. If this was at the £5 or £10 level that's a lot of money overtime bearing in mind this has happened twice to me this week alone.
Support were as good as useless. They basically went "you are wrong and we are right. Suck on it."
Now the problem doesn't seem to be the ins and outs of the account. I sent a screenshot of that and apparently it was the same. However, the amount they think I started with was different to the amount on my screen and in my records hence the deviation.
Now I'm quite happy to let it go on this occasion with such a small amount of money involved but I definitely will not let it go when those pence become £s....
it's just the principle that this sort of stuff can happen and Sky just want to go, nope, not us. Nothing ever goes wrong. We're great. Our software is completely flawless.
Come on guys. I think you're the best site around. Please don't prove me wrong.
Sharkscope is handy, but it's not 100% reliable.
For what it's worth, if you play cash, cash hand history can be very neatly copied and pasted (a page at a time) into Excel, it'll format itself into the cells neatly when you paste, then you just have to sum all the profit/loss for each hand. You should find that it adds up to your total profit/loss for the session. Is time consuming but will hopefully convince you that all is well.
I hope it happens to some of you and I will tell you how it must be your record keeping that is in error. How you must have added up your totals wrong. How it is just not possible. And you will see how infuriating it is.
As for this thread I am done. But before I go I want to make it clear that I am not accusing Sky of anything. There just appeared to be an issue and I wanted to have it looked into seriously and explained to me. The fact that has not happened says a lot.
Over and out.
For the record the reg fee on a £0.25 DYM is 3p, not 6p.
A post which has suggested it was 6p has been deleted by the author.
Posted by stuarty117
That's a fantastic take on it. It is also a weird way of looking at profit and loss. Profit is the amount you make over what you paid to enter in the game. Loss is the amount you have deducted when you lose the game. It doesn't matter what is the amount you paid to another player and the amount you paid to the house. The amount credited into your account beyond your buy-in is your profit and the amount deducted is your loss. It's that simple.
The £0.22 that is credited to the account when in profit has already taken into consideration the £0.28 you have been given back from your buy-in....That they credit me £0.50 and deduct £0.28 in the same transaction per win does not change the total amount credited. It is still £0.22 per win. End of.
So again, I won 6 games which gives me £0.22 worth of profit per game (£1.32) and I lost 4 games at £0.28 debt which gives me a loss total of £1.12. And again the result is £0.20 profit....
You don't have to agree with this but trust me I've been playing Dyms enough and checking my account ins and outs enough to know what I get given each time I win and get taken each time I lose.
The rake is irrelevant for the purposes of working out the total. The total is simply the total credit amounts versus the total debt amounts. That's it. If I get 6 x £0.22 credits for the 6 games I win and get 4 x £0.28 debts for the games I lose than the amount is still the same.
Either that or Sky are taking even more rake then everybody thinks. Sky??? ;-)
It was a winning session, end of. Now where is my money? (And by that I don't mean my main bankroll which I recently re-transferred back to Paypal to protect it against other unforeseen debits).
So on that note I give permission (not that they need it but here is my blessing) to delete this thread if it is believed it could in anyway cause further issue or cause damage to Sky's reputation.
Now i'll leave it be and I look forward to playing with some of you at the tables at some point.