In Response to Re: Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : the reason nobody goes to the strategy section is because people like you keep posting it in the general poker part of the forum, which imo should result in a ticking off from the mods or be removed to that part of the forum, you will get your reply's in due course but no you wanted immediate reply's and to be the center of attention all the time as usual, really are laughable!! on the subject of what you should do here, its an instant fold and why you would even need advice here is just crazy considering your a specialist double your money player. and as for me donking my winnings in vegas, not happened for a long time and am running quite well on the tables, came 2nd in the £300 bounty hunter and cashed in my last 8/9 £11 DYM's roughly. but if you think your game is better than mine in that format then i will take you on in a money challenge, play say 50 £11 DYM over a couple of week or maybe less and lets see who cashes in the most money? Posted by webby234
ahhh this thread has nothing to do with wanting attention! i wanted to discuss a tough spot jeeez, so instead of trash talking why dont you write out your oppinion and arguments for and against each possible decision like others have kindly spent the time to do? 50 games is a ridiculous sample to have a challenge over. It would need to be at least like 100, and i would only do the challenge at the £3.30 stake atm. But if you are up for it (i doubt you will be considering you play £11 dym) then it would be fun. Lol i dont think im a better player than you, i know you have had success at the tables but how can i judge myself against you when ive never seen you play!
Im pretty sure the majority view is fold and thank you everyone for contributing and offering your oppinions. Any more oppinions/advice most welcome. Posted by BlackFish3
Post in the strategy section if you want advice on the hand. If you want advice on where you should post you now have it.
CANT understand the logic in 'shoving',hes min raised so either hes got 'a hand' or hes stealing,with that stack hes probly callin even if u shove and then its in the lap of the poker gods(he cud have 72 and u cud still lose).KJs has such potential,you call and see what happens ,or you fold. at worst uv lost another 200chpz but are STILL IN,at best you hit BIG and double up..if ur worried about hitting top pair and havin a worse kikka,o well ..? you could wait til the others knokk em selves out or double themselves up..? and find urself in a better/worse situation..hes likely to be raising evry hand so what situation do you wait for.?
In Response to Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : This should be in the strategy section. Posted by Seagull158
oh thank you so much for that. I guess you didnt see the other posts offering advice on the hand? Would it have really been discussed as much in the poker strategy section? i highly doubt it... but once again thanks.
CANT understand the logic in 'shoving',hes min raised so either hes got 'a hand' or hes stealing,with that stack hes probly callin even if u shove and then its in the lap of the poker gods(he cud have 72 and u cud still lose).KJs has such potential,you call and see what happens ,or you fold. at worst uv lost another 200chpz but are STILL IN,at best you hit BIG and double up..if ur worried about hitting top pair and havin a worse kikka,o well ..? you could wait til the others knokk em selves out or double themselves up..? and find urself in a better/worse situation..hes likely to be raising evry hand so what situation do you wait for.? Posted by philmenow
wait for me to act first so i can shove? remember raising and seeing everyone fold is always more fun to a psycho big stack when you know you have the potential to make everyone fold than calling a shove where you know you have to suck out.
In Response to Re: Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : wait for me to act first so i can shove? remember raising and seeing everyone fold is always more fun to a psycho big stack when you know you have the potential to make everyone fold than calling a shove where you know you have to suck out. Posted by BlackFish3
uv lost me a little bit there,..if you knew he had AA KK QQ....you wouldnt shove?right? so i cant see a shove would be right,uv already said he likes knokkin peeps out,so chances are he'll call anyway..no matter what he has..personally i think suited KJ has such potential that a call in this position isnt as bad as it seems..sure ull be another 200 chips light if u dont hit...but your still in...lol,but hey,im bustin out all over the place,so im probly wrong..
In Response to Re: Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : uv lost me a little bit there,..if you knew he had AA KK QQ....you wouldnt shove?right? so i cant see a shove would be right,uv already said he likes knokkin peeps out,so chances are he'll call anyway..no matter what he has..personally i think suited KJ has such potential that a call in this position isnt as bad as it seems..sure ull be another 200 chips light if u dont hit...but your still in...lol,but hey,im bustin out all over the place,so im probly wrong.. Posted by philmenow
you've misunderstood me! i think he has a very wide range not a very tight range. i think the shove is the worst play because i know he's not folding. So its call or fold for me personally.
Personally, I'm not as opposed to calling pre-flop as many other people seem to be (but I am a station). You need to beat two of the other players to be able to cash. Assuming that the big-stack is comfortable, of the 3 other players you will be competing with, one has 2570 chips and the other two have 2905 between them (if my calculations are correct). They will all get opportunities to get their chips in first against you, assuming that the big stack hasn't already made a move. You will not have that luxury. The big stack, who you seem to indicate has a wide calling range, is directly on your left so there is not so much advantage to waiting for a spot to shove where you can be confident that you are unlikely to be called.
In this particular hand, you say that a shove pre-flop is likely to get called so this would seem to rule out a pre-flop shove since you can't really expect to be in good shape against a min-raise UTG. You might consider the "stop and go" move. Post flop there will be 900 in the pot and you can shove 1280 more on the flop so you can get him off hands that haven't hit and small pairs where there are multiple overcards. This is obviously a high risk strategy that could go badly wrong but there are quite a few flops that you will connect with in some way.
I'd also consider how close we are to the blinds going up. We have 6bb at this level but only 4bb at the next level. If the next level is near then there is more incentive to play this hand since shoves for 4bb are likely to get called fairly light.
On balance, I think I fold but I think that it is a very tight decision based on your expectation of finding spots to make open shoves and the likelihood of getting them through on later hands. Remember that you will almost certainly need to get several shoves through to be able to cash.
Lastly, although this thread may be more suited to the Poker Strategy section, it is rather churlish of people to object strongly to it being placed here. This thread is at least about poker which cannot be said for several other threads which people have not made similar comments on.
In Response to Re: Difficult DYM situation... call, fold or shove? : oh thank you so much for that. I guess you didnt see the other posts offering advice on the hand? Would it have really been discussed as much in the poker strategy section? i highly doubt it... but once again thanks. Posted by BlackFish3
We have a section called Poker Strategy. I look in that section every day I am online, which is most days, and so do many other people. It would be best if that section was used for what it is meant for; questions, discussion and advice on poker strategy. if you post a hand in there and you dont feel that it is getting a good response then by all means make a post in this section saying that you have put a hand in the strategy section and you would appreciate comments about it. I'm not giving advice on this hand because I do not believe I have the skills and experience to do so....yet. However, I love to read through the posts in the strategy section as a learning experience and I'll continue to do so. I may even make comments but usually those comments will be more in the form of questions about your thoughta and actions rather than advice. Food for thought is always helpful.I'm not trying to attack you. Good luck at the tables.
i think this was a good post and very thought prevoking, yes it should have gone in the other section, but i agree with blackfish ,you dont always get the response there you are looking for. as for the webby thing, there is previous here i presume, but why carry it on webby, at best your comments are inflammatory at worst rude. looking back at your last 10 posts on the forum i can see a pattern. like i said before(which you didnt respond to) i am not "getting on your case" . i just find some of your posts destructive.
i think this was a good post and very thought prevoking, yes it should have gone in the other section, but i agree with blackfish ,you dont always get the response there you are looking for. as for the webby thing, there is previous here i presume, but why carry it on webby, at best your comments are inflammatory at worst rude. looking back at your last 10 posts on the forum i can see a pattern. like i said before(which you didnt respond to) i am not "getting on your case" . i just find some of your posts destructive. Posted by pod1
Webby has a confrontational style. That is his M O and it is very entertaining. I don't believe he steps over the line into gratuitous abuse. He says what he means and he means what he says. No problem as far as I can see.
I say shove imo. I think the key here is you are down to 6BB and there are still 5 players left not 4. You need to shove now or in the next few hands. I know you may find a better position but are you going to get a better hand to shove with? If the chip leader is playing as loose as you say, he is going to call you when you do shove anyway. What are you gaining by waiting to put your money in ahead if you think he is going to call you with any two? I don't play too many DYM but it just looks like the time to make a move.
I prefer to shove KJss rather than a weak ace simply because you've got a much better flush and straight potential, and unless you hoping for the miracle AA or two knockouts to come in the next orbit your not going to see much better.. If theres 4 people left I'd be more inclined to fold, but with 5 you can't really afford to wait since your gonna be bullied every blind anyway. + if big stack folds to your shove (it could happen) hes gonna be a bit more cautious next time he min raises a shortie from early pos.
Comments
but hey we at skypoker have even better ,
the blackfish and webby dym challenge ,
bring it on guys !
Personally, I'm not as opposed to calling pre-flop as many other people seem to be (but I am a station).
You need to beat two of the other players to be able to cash. Assuming that the big-stack is comfortable, of the 3 other players you will be competing with, one has 2570 chips and the other two have 2905 between them (if my calculations are correct). They will all get opportunities to get their chips in first against you, assuming that the big stack hasn't already made a move. You will not have that luxury.
The big stack, who you seem to indicate has a wide calling range, is directly on your left so there is not so much advantage to waiting for a spot to shove where you can be confident that you are unlikely to be called.
In this particular hand, you say that a shove pre-flop is likely to get called so this would seem to rule out a pre-flop shove since you can't really expect to be in good shape against a min-raise UTG.
You might consider the "stop and go" move. Post flop there will be 900 in the pot and you can shove 1280 more on the flop so you can get him off hands that haven't hit and small pairs where there are multiple overcards. This is obviously a high risk strategy that could go badly wrong but there are quite a few flops that you will connect with in some way.
I'd also consider how close we are to the blinds going up. We have 6bb at this level but only 4bb at the next level. If the next level is near then there is more incentive to play this hand since shoves for 4bb are likely to get called fairly light.
On balance, I think I fold but I think that it is a very tight decision based on your expectation of finding spots to make open shoves and the likelihood of getting them through on later hands. Remember that you will almost certainly need to get several shoves through to be able to cash.
Lastly, although this thread may be more suited to the Poker Strategy section, it is rather churlish of people to object strongly to it being placed here.
This thread is at least about poker which cannot be said for several other threads which people have not made similar comments on.
Webby bit (bet) into you and you only called. Either dont bite (fold) or go all in (call his bluff)
Your playing right into his hands
I say shove imo. I think the key here is you are down to 6BB and there are still 5 players left not 4. You need to shove now or in the next few hands. I know you may find a better position but are you going to get a better hand to shove with? If the chip leader is playing as loose as you say, he is going to call you when you do shove anyway. What are you gaining by waiting to put your money in ahead if you think he is going to call you with any two? I don't play too many DYM but it just looks like the time to make a move.
I prefer to shove KJss rather than a weak ace simply because you've got a much better flush and straight potential, and unless you hoping for the miracle AA or two knockouts to come in the next orbit your not going to see much better.. If theres 4 people left I'd be more inclined to fold, but with 5 you can't really afford to wait since your gonna be bullied every blind anyway. + if big stack folds to your shove (it could happen) hes gonna be a bit more cautious next time he min raises a shortie from early pos.