Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.

thisltedu

Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.

 

I’m posting this separately rather than on the ‘Etiquette and slow play’ thread that Rhino started as I think it needs more clarification.

I noticed during discussions at the tables at the SPT that these terms seemed to be used interchangeably with some people talking about slow-rolling when the actually meant slow playing so I thought I would put my definitions below and seek confirmation from more experienced players.

Slow play

Taking your time to make a decision at any time.

Slow-playing

Disguising a premium hand by not raising. For instance limping or flat calling with AA hoping to win a big pot because they don’t put you on a big hand.

Slow-rolling

Slowly revealing your hand when you know you have won the pot. The intention is to wind-up your opponent. Very poor etiquette.

I was recently accused of slow-rolling and I would like to state categorically that I would never intentionally do that. As Matt Bates pointed out on the other thread there can be numerous reasons why someone delays their call with the winning hand when playing on line. In my case I had a poor internet connection, was multitabling and did not have the nut hand so needed some thinking time.

Perceived on-line ‘slow-rolling’ can be very different to live ‘slow-rolling’ where an opponent looks you in the eye and slowly reveals an obviously nut hand one card at a time. I would ask people to give others the benefit of the doubt and not jump to conclusions.

Slow play. What are the thoughts on slow play when it gets near the bubble, especially of a multiseat sat?

If one table is playing quickly and another slowly there is an advantage to the slow table as they have to play fewer hands and will go through less blinds.

mumsie

Hi Donald,

Decent thread, should clear things up.

Is this considered bad etiquette.

You call a raise out of position with say JJ, flop JJx and check every street, hoping someone makes a run or flush and come over the top on the river when someone takes a stab at the pot ?

thisltedu

I believe slow playing a hand as you describe is perfectly acceptable as far as etiquette goes. Poker is a game of deception afterall. What would be wrong would be to not call quickly of some one puts you all in. Unless there was a straight flush possible of course.
It does, however raise the question of when is it optimal to slow play a premium hand and when is it actually better to bet out with it.

HENDRIK62

I was under the impession that some casinos will take a dim view of anyone not betting the nuts, even if you are trying to induce a bluff, however I may be wrong. 

perhaps someone who plays a lot live will know.

FCHD

It's only a problem not betting with the nuts when you are last to act.

EvilPingu

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.:

Hi Donald, Decent thread, should clear things up. Is this considered bad etiquette. You call a raise out of position with say JJ, flop JJx and check every street, hoping someone makes a run or flush and come over the top on the river when someone takes a stab at the pot ?
Posted by mumsie

Never in a million years - It's a totally legitimate way to play your hand, if you feel that's the best way to get maximum value.

I doubt it's going to be optimal all that often, given you're losing value from hands like AT+ that are happy to get to showdown for free, but might call believing Ace high is good on a board like JhJd2c 3s and if not they've got 6 cards to improve on the river, for example.

However, there's no reason why you can't play the hand like that if you choose to do so.

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.:

It's only a problem not betting with the nuts when you are last to act.
Posted by FCHD

This. You can't check back the nuts on the river if you are last to act - It's a collusion/soft play prevention thing.

If you are out of position as per your example, then you can reasonably be trying to induce a bluff with intention of check/raising, which is totally different and absolutely fine.

rhino11

thankyou for your input thisltedu and for you to verify the differences between the 2 

TheMadMonk

yep agree being slow rolled when someone has the nuts is bad form,as for people tanking over every decision ,in a lot of situations its not taking time over a hard decision,or trying to induce a bet or multitabling  ,its because they have seen it being done on the telly,online and live if its been on tv the dafties copy it,was at casino other night and their was 2 or 3 players covering their mouth/face with their jumpers/hoodies why?they seen someone doing it on the telly.

EvilPingu

In Response to Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.:

As Matt Bates pointed out on the other thread there can be numerous reasons why someone delays their call with the winning hand when playing on line. In my case I had a poor internet connection, was multitabling and did not have the nut hand so needed some thinking time. Perceived on-line ‘slow-rolling’ can be very different to live ‘slow-rolling’ where an opponent looks you in the eye and slowly reveals an obviously nut hand one card at a time. I would ask people to give others the benefit of the doubt and not jump to conclusions. 

Posted by thisltedu

I do find myself slowrolling people sometimes, but in 99.9% of cases it's because I've got so many tables that I don't notice straight away that I have been dealt Aces, the action is on me, and someone has shoved. I'll always apologise in that spot, even though more often than not, the other player has been knocked out and probably closed the table already.

Itsover4u

any advice for cashing mtts whilst sitting out - there was a chubby bloke who said it couldnt happen

explain that

rhino11

yes i can explain that ITsover4u, sky poker tv years ago in a advert chubby faced fella ryan i think his name or scotty , he says its impossible to sit out in any sky poker game and cash , yet there was a discussion recently saying someone did just that  hope that clarifies that for you

j3ono

Nice thread Donald.

When I play live I try and play every hand pre flop the same:

Dealer would deal I would place cards under my protector sideways.

I would then watch the action.

When I'm to act I would count to 5, straighten up my cards and look at them, then count to 3 and make my decision.

I've been told this is slow playing, I look at it as a rountine and hopefully it gives very little infomation away.

Several times faster players to my left act out of turn, which of course gives me free information.

I have noticed players can get very frustrated at my lack of speed.

Thoughts?

Essexphil

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.:

Nice thread Donald. When I play live I try and play every hand pre flop the same: Dealer would deal I would place cards under my protector sideways. I would then watch the action. When I'm to act I would count to 5, straighten up my cards and look at them, then count to 3 and make my decision. I've been told this is slow playing, I look at it as a rountine and hopefully it gives very little infomation away. Several times faster players to my left act out of turn, which of course gives me free information. I have noticed players can get very frustrated at my lack of speed. Thoughts?
Posted by j3ono

If everybody played like this, then poker would cease to be. The "count to 3" bit is fine, the rest not so much.

gerardirl

Count to 5 to annoy everyone?

Would it not make more sense to count to 3 first then look at your cards and count to 5?

mumsie

Intregued at the count of 5 whilst your being looked at by the table and no cards picked up, seems comical. 

3 seconds , I get that.

Would you do this sb v bb ?

gerardirl

How fast are you counting? lol

mumsie

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.:

How fast are you counting? lol
Posted by gerardirl

12345

Or 1 elephant, 2 elephant  3elephant.

glencoelad

Slow play is bad full stop...especially when older guys like me are at the table...life is too short,

 and time becomes precious at my age !  

  The 3 secs is fine, but at live games slow play gets on my nerves, partly due to the speed of 

 on line poker...most ..........................................................

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times.

j3ono

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.:

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling. : If everybody played like this, then poker would cease to be. The "count to 3" bit is fine, the rest not so much.
Posted by Essexphil

Maybe but playing 30min or so levels take a few seconds dosen't really come into it.

The 5 seconds are used for many reasons and help to reason how to play certain players, cards, draws etc etc

j3ono

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.:

Intregued at the count of 5 whilst your being looked at by the table and no cards picked up, seems comical.  3 seconds , I get that. Would you do this sb v bb ?
Posted by mumsie

haha I can see that

j3ono

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling.:

In Response to Re: Slow play, Slow-playing and Slow-rolling. : 12345 Or 1 elephant, 2 elephant  3elephant.
Posted by mumsie

More like, 1 dont get donked, 2 dont hit trips, 3 miss you draws, 4 didn't runner runner, 5 Pleae have a worse hand