My prediction is there's going to be an AQ, lower pocket pairs and King Queen and he makes the call and loses to the lower pocket pairs who hit their set.
I don't like the thought of playing KK four handed pre flop, but its micro stakes and people openly shove with trash, as we saw in the other thread by blackfish. KK is going to be infront of most hands so therefore I'd be assuming it's good and would make the call.
In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold : also what your saying is you will never fold a hand if you raise 17x big blind because you dont want to look a mug, but you would rather flip over j10 or somet to look good? Posted by webby234
Ok, i've not been at the table for more than 20 mins or so, so i dont have much info on the players involved in the action. I know it's micro stakes, so i'm not risking that much, but i think its a similar situation to a post a few weeks ago, regarding the higher stake tables. I would like opinions on what the correct play should be in this position, as i'm next to act. I'll post the full hand later today. Player Action Cards Amount Pot Balance daz69 Small blind £0.02 £0.02 £10.32 griffgruff Big blind £0.04 £0.06 £3.90 Nightshado Big blind £0.04 £0.10 £0.64 Your hole cards K K joesoap121 Call £0.04 £0.14 £4.24 Nightshado Check DADSARMIE Fold pyte Call £0.04 £0.18 £3.78 -Typhoon- Raise £0.68 £0.86 £3.08 daz69 Fold griffgruff All-in £3.90 £4.76 £0.00 joesoap121 Fold Nightshado All-in £0.62 £5.38 £0.02 pyte All-in £3.78 £9.16 £0.00 Posted by -Typhoon-
I've been on a 6 handed MTT table with 4 AIs. We all had PP and nobody had AA or KK. You have to call. On that table the best hand PF didnt hold up anyway.
how the heck is it straight forward, the correct play is a fold, people are saying because its micro stakes its a call, if the stakes were 100/200 would it be a call? no it would not, am sorry but this is a fold and people who are saying call are only saying it because of the stakes of the game!!!! Posted by webby234
its a 100% call everytime imo,the only hand beating you is aa and you will beat that 20% of the time, it makes no difference if its cash or tourny either way i want to double up.....
nooo webby your gonna be right! - people never post these sorta things unless theyve been cold decked/out-drawn - so theres a 50 50 chance ur right. I see your argument, but if you're good enough to fold pocket kings pre flop, then your playing way below your level at these stakes. Like, WAYYYYYYYY below ur level! Posted by DOHHHHHHH
i dont hink a top player is ever folding kk preflop...unless its 1st hand in a massive buy-in tourny? why are they playing poker if they are folding kk pre,and what sort of hand are they waiting for to cash big/double up?
ps i called an all in with jj against 1 player last night on the bubble he had a/10 two players had folded an ace and he hit the river:( the 9th place was £40 and 1st £690 so i am always going for the top three....
The correct play in these situations is to raise your left hand in the air, start vigorously pumping the air with your right arm and then quickly hit the call button before all that fist pumping makes you miss your go.
how the heck is it straight forward, the correct play is a fold, people are saying because its micro stakes its a call, if the stakes were 100/200 would it be a call? no it would not, am sorry but this is a fold and people who are saying call are only saying it because of the stakes of the game!!!! Posted by webby234
Just read this again and it's even more obvious why it's a call - you've eluded to it yourself but then used that as reasons for folding...
"People are saying because its micro stakes its a call" - yes as at this level, you're pretty much always ahead in this spot because they don't need massive hands here to be going all in! It's nothing to do with it's only £4 compared to £400 - it's everything to do with knowing the standard and range of your opponent when making the decision! If people were saying call with 8 4 then yeah that's because "of the stakes of the game" so they don't have regard for losing £4 but what people are actually saying here is I believe my KK are ahead of the majority of hands people would move all in at this level with so it's snap call everyday of the week...
"If the stakes were 100/200 would it be a call? no it would not" - that's correct because at those stakes, you would come up against better players so know their range of hands for getting their money in would usually be QQ+ so you're able to make calculated decision with that knowledge but that's not the issue here - we're sitting at 4NL table so basing your decision on what you would do at bigger stakes, is irrelevant!
Whenever the result gets posted, please don't use that as justification for folding if someone did have AA or win hand with some trash - if you're folding premium hands at 4NL (always giving credit to opponent for monsters) then you're rarely going to make any profit! Like on BlackFish3's thread, there's excellent advice here to take advantage of (if you don't want to listen, that's your choice) but they're playing at those bigger stakes for a reason...and it's not because they folded KK in this spot!
ok my reasoning for the fold is simple, hes playing at micro stakes for a reason, the £4 for all we know could mean an awful to him and why chance it 4 handed aipf? its probably nothing more than a drop in ocean for him but its not a call hes gonna make lightly, i dont play cash or lower stakes so i have no idea how good the players are but i am assuming they are good players and not gonna throw good money away. i wouldnt think you see this very often, 4 players all in pre flop with about 12 quid in the middle? beaneh i think you would call a deaf dog lol
ok my reasoning for the fold is simple, hes playing at micro stakes for a reason, the £4 for all we know could mean an awful to him and why chance it 4 handed aipf? its probably nothing more than a drop in ocean for him but its not a call hes gonna make lightly, i dont play cash or lower stakes so i have no idea how good the players are but i am assuming they are good players and not gonna throw good money away. i wouldnt think you see this very often, 4 players all in pre flop with about 12 quid in the middle? beaneh i think you would call a deaf dog lol Posted by webby234
Ok forget that it is for money and that £4 is a months living in Thailand.
Think about this. We have the second best hand in history!!! YAY
We MUST be ahead of someone (or at least drawing if its AA, AA and KK ai already).
Tbh Sky took away my fold button years ago but that's not the point.
We have a King and a King, going all in is a must here. The more people in the pot 'the lower our equity is' but we will still be a relatively big favourite and this is cash where we want to get our money in ahead.
ok my reasoning for the fold is simple, hes playing at micro stakes for a reason, the £4 for all we know could mean an awful to him and why chance it 4 handed aipf? its probably nothing more than a drop in ocean for him but its not a call hes gonna make lightly, i dont play cash or lower stakes so i have no idea how good the players are but i am assuming they are good players and not gonna throw good money away. i wouldnt think you see this very often, 4 players all in pre flop with about 12 quid in the middle? beaneh i think you would call a deaf dog lol Posted by webby234
Don't get me wrong, it's not a call that we make whilst cackling insanely and waving our middle finger at the screen. It's one of those that we make while sayng "No AA, pleeeeaaaaase no AA!". We still make it though....
Personally I hate getting all my chips in pre-flop, (even with AA). In this situation though, I'm willing to take the risk.
In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold : Don't get me wrong, it's not a call that we make whilst cackling insanely and waving our middle finger at the screen. It's one of those that we make while sayng "No AA, pleeeeaaaaase no AA!". We still make it though.... Personally I hate getting all my chips in pre-flop, (even with AA). In this situation though, I'm willing to take the risk. Posted by KnackersYa
I would be cackling, doing a little dance and already spending the winnings in my head.
ok my reasoning for the fold is simple, hes playing at micro stakes for a reason, the £4 for all we know could mean an awful to him and why chance it 4 handed aipf? its probably nothing more than a drop in ocean for him but its not a call hes gonna make lightly, i dont play cash or lower stakes so i have no idea how good the players are but i am assuming they are good players and not gonna throw good money away. i wouldnt think you see this very often, 4 players all in pre flop with about 12 quid in the middle? beaneh i think you would call a deaf dog lol Posted by webby234
...so don't dismiss the opinion/advice of those who do! In cash, at these levels, it's an instant call regardless of the outcome!
The correct play in these situations is to raise your left hand in the air, start vigorously pumping the air with your right arm and then quickly hit the call button before all that fist pumping makes you miss your go. Never fold. Ever. Posted by beaneh
PMSL.... spot on beaneh.
WOW, thanks for the response guys, it certainly opened the gates of debate. As stated, I had only been seated for 20 mins, so no previous info to go on..
As I was on the button, I could see most of action prior to me having to make any decision, Nightshado was indeed short stacked and only called the BB, so I didn’t put him on anything. Next played folded, followed by ptye’s BB call. Again, no alarm bells.
At this point I don’t want anyone else in the pot, so I have to raise big enough to thin the field, with the hope of getting at least 1 caller.I initially meant to raise to 50p, but had problem with the slider.
Following this, Daz folds, but to my horror, griff goes all in, which has me well covered, should I call. A fold from joe. At which point I’m still don’t know what I’m going to do, then Nightshado calls. My thoughts at this time are Nighshado’s actions are irrelevant and play no part in the decision process. But pyte also calls in. Now my priority changes. Although I’m thinking griff is the only one I should be worrying about, I feel at a the very min, he’s paired or on A with a big kicker.
However, because of the size of the pot I felt I had no choice but to call, simply for the value. I knew at worst I could be in second place, with the potential to improve.
There’s a lot of debate about the stakes, but had I been calling with £30 rather than £3.08, I would still have to make the call, purely because of the value.
I know its a bit late now, sorry for posting the names.
There are two ways to look at this hand now that the results have been posted (as I always say posting results is a bad idea and influences peoples decisions.
In this case the equities are as follows
85o 10.7%
A5o 23%
23s 14%
KK 52%
So yes we lost in this case because some combination of the board running out made our hand not the best but on average we win 52% of everything in the pot in this scenario, just remember that there are tons of flops and turn combinations. You made the right decision you just have to be happy with it.
Comments
My prediction is there's going to be an AQ, lower pocket pairs and King Queen and he makes the call and loses to the lower pocket pairs who hit their set.
I don't like the thought of playing KK four handed pre flop, but its micro stakes and people openly shove with trash, as we saw in the other thread by blackfish. KK is going to be infront of most hands so therefore I'd be assuming it's good and would make the call.
it makes no difference if its cash or tourny either way i want to double up.....
In Response to Re: KK, Call or Fold:
i dont hink a top player is ever folding kk preflop...unless its 1st hand in a massive buy-in tourny?why are they playing poker if they are folding kk pre,and what sort of hand are they waiting for to cash big/double up?
ps i called an all in with jj against 1 player last night on the bubble he had a/10 two players had folded an ace and he hit the river:( the 9th place was £40 and 1st £690 so i am always going for the top three....
By the way, the rest of the hand doesn't matter. If one of them has AA, so what? Folding KK here is far too nitty.
Don't get me wrong, it's not a call that we make whilst cackling insanely and waving our middle finger at the screen. It's one of those that we make while sayng "No AA, pleeeeaaaaase no AA!". We still make it though....
Personally I hate getting all my chips in pre-flop, (even with AA). In this situation though, I'm willing to take the risk.
WOW, thanks for the response guys, it certainly opened the gates of debate. As stated, I had only been seated for 20 mins, so no previous info to go on..
As I was on the button, I could see most of action prior to me having to make any decision, Nightshado was indeed short stacked and only called the BB, so I didn’t put him on anything. Next played folded, followed by ptye’s BB call. Again, no alarm bells.
At this point I don’t want anyone else in the pot, so I have to raise big enough to thin the field, with the hope of getting at least 1 caller. I initially meant to raise to 50p, but had problem with the slider.
Following this, Daz folds, but to my horror, griff goes all in, which has me well covered, should I call. A fold from joe. At which point I’m still don’t know what I’m going to do, then Nightshado calls. My thoughts at this time are Nighshado’s actions are irrelevant and play no part in the decision process. But pyte also calls in. Now my priority changes. Although I’m thinking griff is the only one I should be worrying about, I feel at a the very min, he’s paired or on A with a big kicker.
However, because of the size of the pot I felt I had no choice but to call, simply for the value. I knew at worst I could be in second place, with the potential to improve.
There’s a lot of debate about the stakes, but had I been calling with £30 rather than £3.08, I would still have to make the call, purely because of the value.
I know its a bit late now, sorry for posting the names.