Hey Myna I was going to post a few days ago but was busy. FeelGroggy and Matt basically summed up my thoughts. Against them players I check call this river maybe 80% of the time. Not knowing you, and being in the mini I opted for an expoititative bet/fold. And you got me It kinda reminds me early on in poker I was against Moorman in a big hand, and I tried to "show my skills" as it were and I won the hand risking everything, but looking back it was a disaster. I think telling you my hand wont help you very much. Boost your ego maybe. The best players are creative and go out on a limb, its just knowing when to do it, and when to look for a better spot. One good thing that my come of this is ppl will think im a pushover and bluff me more. Goodluck on your quest! Posted by devil_tear
Hi devil!!
Very classy response, this is great : ) Like the fact that you subtly call me a fish rather than making it obvious, thanks ; ) The Moorman name drop is awesome- is he still the biggest winner from online MTT?- the gulf in ability between your early poker self and him probably not quite as big as the gulf between me and you currently though : )
Happy to help against your peers and equals! : )
It would be kind of interesting to know where you were in your range to be honest but no big deal and understand you not wanting to give your peers even more information than necessary... something I'm belatedly realising myself
Thank you very much and I hope to play a hand well against you next time : ) gg
In Response to Re: Button-clicking Spew-monkey vs Legit Shark... : Well did go over this a bit already but maybe not thoroughly and it does make for some interesting river decisions when we get to river in the exact same way with different parts of our range. So for this exercise lets ignore the pro's and con's for c betting vs not c betting this flop in this HU min raised pot vs BB with our entire range and just accept that we checked flop bet-called turn and arrive at this river facing this bet. Flop is Qh9s6d turn is 8h river is 5h So, lets say I/we get to river as played with sets- QQQ, 999, 888, 666. Can any of our sets call? Can all of them call? Are they split between calls and folds? Would we consider turning any of these into bluff shoves on river? Lets say we get there as played with AA/KK. Are these trivial folds? Can we ever call? Can we call when we have a heart? Should we bluff shove? Should we bluff shove only when we have a heart? Lets say we get there with JJ-22. Just trivial folds, "hero" calls or any bluff shoves? Lets say we get there with AQ,KQ,QJs,Q10s and Q9s (loose open, debatable)- are any of these calls? Are blocker effects relevant? Should we consider bluff shoving with any of the these combo's? Then there's all our made flushes on river- AhKh, AhJh, Ah10h, Ah9h, Ah7h, Ah4h, Ah3h, Ah2h, KhJh, Kh10h, Kh9h (loose open, debatable) Jh10h, 10h9h, 9h7h (loose, debatable) 7h6h, 4h3h (very loose, very debatable) Are we shoving all of our flushes? Or are we just calling with some of them? Posted by MynaFrett
As much as I love your passion in your response, I can't just agree with you and say we get to river with all them hands in our range. I can't even entertain it in theory and provide you with any information regarding what bluff catchers you should call with.
You just don't play your whole range the same and never will across 3 streets.
Playing hands from flop through turn and onto river defines ranges as you move across three streets.
For you and your opponent.
Once you put the pieces together you can then work out what ranges you think they have and what your bluff catchers are.
You can't just fast forward to river and say i have every hand so what are my bluff catchers, it's not a one street game.
Neither can you work out what you can bluff with.
I think your thinking along the right lines but you need to define ranges on a street to work out the best move.
Every street provides information which you should be using to make a good decision.
In Response to Re: Button-clicking Spew-monkey vs Legit Shark... : As much as I love your passion in your response, I can't just agree with you and say we get to river with all them hands in our range. I can't even entertain it in theory and provide you with any information regarding what bluff catchers you should call with. You just don't play your whole range the same and never will across 3 streets. Playing hands from flop through turn and onto river defines ranges as you move across three streets. For you and your opponent. Once you put the pieces together you can then work out what ranges you think they have and what your bluff catchers are. You can't just fast forward to river and say i have every hand so what are my bluff catchers, it's not a one street game. Neither can you work out what you can bluff with. I think your thinking along the right lines but you need to define ranges on a street to work out the best move. Every street provides information which you should be using to make a good decision. Posted by rancid
Thats cool, I see where you are coming from but I maintain that this hand will play out identically and I will get to the river with the entire range mentioned sometimes. Just have to agree to disagree I suppose
Comments
Hi devil!!
Very classy response, this is great : ) Like the fact that you subtly call me a fish rather than making it obvious, thanks ; ) The Moorman name drop is awesome- is he still the biggest winner from online MTT?- the gulf in ability between your early poker self and him probably not quite as big as the gulf between me and you currently though : )
Happy to help against your peers and equals! : )
It would be kind of interesting to know where you were in your range to be honest but no big deal and understand you not wanting to give your peers even more information than necessary... something I'm belatedly realising myself
Thank you very much and I hope to play a hand well against you next time : ) gg
Thats cool, I see where you are coming from but I maintain that this hand will play out identically and I will get to the river with the entire range mentioned sometimes. Just have to agree to disagree I suppose