Been considering this question for a long time as it is essential to the survival of not just sky but poker in general. I/we entrust large amounts of rake to sky poker which should be used to attract and keep new players.There are smarter people than me that may understand the psychology of newbies to find a solution. However there is 1 thing as 'regs' we can all do and that is not mock recreational players. There has recently been a reg who plays higher slumming it down at 10nl who at every opportunity it seems wants to ridicule recreational players for questionable plays. I don't understand it, recreational players are what give us our double figure win rates it's pretty tough to beat competent players with a 7.5% rake. Sure it's frustrating when your aces get beat by j4o all in pre but we should welcome it and do all we can to keep the money on the table, which likely means say nothing. So if you can't say nice hand say nothing.
I know exactly who H3nry is referring to here. For one who professes to have such a high level of poker intelligence, it is gloriously ironic to see the distinct lack of it when this player exhibits such behaviour. Fortunately this kind of thing is the exception rather than the norm on Sky but, for all of us who would like to continue to have fun juicy games to play in, the old adage continues to ring true - don't tap the glass!
I don't know who you & @H3nry are referring to, so I can't possibly know if the player goes beyond the boundary of Compliant Chat. If you want to send me a PM with the players alias, I'll certainly pass it up to the Office for them to take a look.
We have to acknowledge though, that whilst it would be good for poker, players don't have to be nice to each other, but there is a line beyond which it is unacceptable.
It's poker, not the local Knitting Circle, so some degree of aggression is to be expected.
There isn't anything in this that breaches any boundaries or is offensive - it's generally just sarcastic comments and things like 'lol at calling with J4'. Certainly nothing that needs naming and shaming for or sending 'upstairs'.
As H3nry alluded to, this kind of stuff is just plain stupid to do and all the more baffling when it comes from someone who appears to be a thinking player. As poker players, when trying to win, we will always be focused on making decisions which are the most +EV. Having a player at the table who is calling preflop raises with J4 is a pretty +EV situation and berating them for it in the chatbox and making them more inclined to leave the table (perhaps never to return) is a pretty idiotic -EV move. Given that this thread began by asking how we can assist new players and get them to stick around for longer, sarcastically berating them for poor play is certainly not going to help and is harmful to us all in the long run.
*For those who are unfamiliar, EV stands for expected value. +EV means something has a positive expected value and -EV means something has a negative expected value/outcome.
+ev and -ev liked the way you explained it for newbies [and ime not being sarcastic] most people take it for granted ,players know what things mean in poker,
ive been playing poker for about 20 years, talking to players ,sometimes I havnt got a clue what they are talking about [especially the young guns]
maybe its not the bounty hunters jac, maybe all the thousands of new players who join sky each year and leave,just never play online poker again,is that really what you believe?
maybe its not the bounty hunters jac, maybe all the thousands of new players who join sky each year and leave,just never play online poker again,is that really what you believe?
As some have said point them towards the forum for some help. To do this why does sky poker not promote it more for example:- When there is a freeroll with password on Facebook/Twitter why not have the password on poker chat. Yes some will just come on to get the password just like on Facebook but some might also see the other threads that might interest them. After about four years of playing on sky poker (my first time i had played poker) i only clicked on poker chat to find something out. When i did i found some really good threads with some helpful tips which made me think about my game. I always read poker chat every day now just think it would be a good way to introduce players to the forum as the saying goes 'use what you have got'.
Welcome to the Forum, @H3nry , that's an excellent maiden post.
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Whilst you are here, you clearly read the Forum but have never posted before. That was a great maiden post, so why not stick around, & get involved in the Community here?
Almost no other Online Poker Site has a Forum, so it behoves us all to look after it.
This debate could last for an eternity but I think it's important to draw a distinction between the two types of new depositors:
1) Those who are new to poker. 2) Those who are new to Sky but not new to poker.
With the first group, their first experiences of online poker will be paramount in determining how likely they are to stick around. I first deposited money into an online poker account way back in 2003 (£25 on a site run by one of the big UK bookmakers). I played a couple of sit n go's and then had a message pop up in that chat box that I had won £100 in some random promo I didn't even know was running. I then bought into my first ever MTT for £2 and won the thing collecting around £200 in the process - I was clueless but instinctively very nitty which was good enough in itself back then to do pretty well. My golden start meant I was very much sold on this poker malarkey and have played on and off ever since. Had I have quickly lost my £25 deposit, I would have probably thought that it was just a silly way to waste money and not have returned - which is likely the case with many newbies today. The bigger difficulty now, with the average skill level of existing players being so much greater, is that those first deposits will be getting lost with a much greater frequency and at a faster rate than ever before. Reversing that trend without removing the skill element of poker (wherein its enduring appeal lies) may ultimately be an impossible task. However, as the whole thing was all so new to me back then, things like the software, the MTT schedule and the amount of traffic mattered to me not one jot.
I was part of the second group when I first signed up with Sky in 2011. I was given £10 for free to try out the site which I quickly managed to lose. Frankly, I thought the software was pants compared to places I'd played previously so decided not to deposit and took my action elsewhere. It was only this year that I returned to Sky when, as a much more experienced player, the quality of the software on offer was lower down my list of priorities in determining where I wanted to play (I do still thinks it's pants so am certainly pleased to hear that something new is in development). Retaining new depositors who have come across from other sites but are not new to poker is also a tricky task but one which should be more achievable. With many of the other larger sites making some unpopular changes of late, there is definitely an opportunity here. Good reliable software, a balanced appealing MTT schedule and good promos are all factors in this and there is certainly room for improvement in these areas. Ultimately though, the more of the first group Sky can attract, the more of the second group that will follow.
Maybe Sky could award a few more seats into the WSOP main event for next year. I'm sure a Sky qualifier taking down the ME should help create a bit of a UK poker boom. Go on... you know it makes sense
As some have said point them towards the forum for some help. To do this why does sky poker not promote it more for example:- When there is a freeroll with password on Facebook/Twitter why not have the password on poker chat. Yes some will just come on to get the password just like on Facebook but some might also see the other threads that might interest them. After about four years of playing on sky poker (my first time i had played poker) i only clicked on poker chat to find something out. When i did i found some really good threads with some helpful tips which made me think about my game. I always read poker chat every day now just think it would be a good way to introduce players to the forum as the saying goes 'use what you have got'.
ZING
There may be good reason why that has not been tried before, but on the face of it, it seems an excellent idea.
I shall ask the question of the Social Media Top Lady Person.
Been considering this question for a long time as it is essential to the survival of not just sky but poker in general. I/we entrust large amounts of rake to sky poker which should be used to attract and keep new players.There are smarter people than me that may understand the psychology of newbies to find a solution. However there is 1 thing as 'regs' we can all do and that is not mock recreational players. There has recently been a reg who plays higher slumming it down at 10nl who at every opportunity it seems wants to ridicule recreational players for questionable plays. I don't understand it, recreational players are what give us our double figure win rates it's pretty tough to beat competent players with a 7.5% rake. Sure it's frustrating when your aces get beat by j4o all in pre but we should welcome it and do all we can to keep the money on the table, which likely means say nothing. So if you can't say nice hand say nothing.
I know exactly who H3nry is referring to here. For one who professes to have such a high level of poker intelligence, it is gloriously ironic to see the distinct lack of it when this player exhibits such behaviour. Fortunately this kind of thing is the exception rather than the norm on Sky but, for all of us who would like to continue to have fun juicy games to play in, the old adage continues to ring true - don't tap the glass!
I don't know who you & @H3nry are referring to, so I can't possibly know if the player goes beyond the boundary of Compliant Chat. If you want to send me a PM with the players alias, I'll certainly pass it up to the Office for them to take a look.
We have to acknowledge though, that whilst it would be good for poker, players don't have to be nice to each other, but there is a line beyond which it is unacceptable.
It's poker, not the local Knitting Circle, so some degree of aggression is to be expected.
There isn't anything in this that breaches any boundaries or is offensive - it's generally just sarcastic comments and things like 'lol at calling with J4'. Certainly nothing that needs naming and shaming for or sending 'upstairs'.
As H3nry alluded to, this kind of stuff is just plain stupid to do and all the more baffling when it comes from someone who appears to be a thinking player. As poker players, when trying to win, we will always be focused on making decisions which are the most +EV. Having a player at the table who is calling preflop raises with J4 is a pretty +EV situation and berating them for it in the chatbox and making them more inclined to leave the table (perhaps never to return) is a pretty idiotic -EV move. Given that this thread began by asking how we can assist new players and get them to stick around for longer, sarcastically berating them for poor play is certainly not going to help and is harmful to us all in the long run.
*For those who are unfamiliar, EV stands for expected value. +EV means something has a positive expected value and -EV means something has a negative expected value/outcome.
We can't stop what others say in chat but we certainly can call players out for it. Also if there is things that overstep the mark even if it isn't aimed at you report them. I have done this on a few occasions as there is no need for it.
the new players who come on and lose their deposits and don't come back,there are two reasons for it I think.
1= they are trying online poker for maybe the first time,and are not really into it so just drift away and take up another hobby.
2= they try sky,lose their deposit,then try some other sites ,see theres more variety/choice on other sites and play there instead.
the first type you are never going to keep no matter what you do,the second type,you would need to change the schedule to keep them [less bounty hunters] but doing that would upset some of the players who already play on the site.
Are you seriously saying that swapping some bounty hunters for freezeouts would mean retaining way more new players? Ridiculously sweeping statement.
And I'm not sure who would be upset? A lot of people on the forum would like more variety (myself included), however most of these people also realise that the general demand is gonna dictate the schedule, and if it's bounty hunters that players lap up then its gonna be bounty hunters dominating the MTTs.
Sky have numerous USPs, and its important to maintain these. Playing in £, no 3rd party software, a forum, live events....these things can all attract new players and, importantly, retain them.
hhyft....what do you think the reason is that a lot of new players try sky then leave and don't come back then, do you think they all just stop playing online? sky have got a lot going for it as a site [things you have mentioned] so what reason can there be for new sign ups leaving.
hhyft....what do you think the reason is that a lot of new players try sky then leave and don't come back then, do you think they all just stop playing online?
None of us know the figures so we're all playing a guessing game. But we can make some assumptions....
1) Some will dabble with poker and decide its not for them. 2) Some will start off on Sky and then gravitate towards other sites. 3) Some will start off on Sky and remain active here. 4) Some will start off elsewhere and then gravitate over to Sky.
Nothing you can really do about 1, and there are always gonna be people who fall into 2 regardless of what is on offer here.
As long as Sky have a decent market share of 3 and 4 then its all gravy. And for that you need the bigger picture figures, something we're not privy too sadly. But when Sky is growing whilst online poker is/was in decline, then that is a good sign.
fair enough points hhyft.on the subject of poker sites,seen today Ladbrokes and corals have been bought over,dont know if that will be a good or bad thing for sky/poker in general in the long run.
fair enough points hhyft.on the subject of poker sites,seen today Ladbrokes and corals have been bought over,dont know if that will be a good or bad thing for sky/poker in general in the long run.
Won't make a dot of difference to Sky Poker.
There was no significant poker traffic on either Coral or Ladbrokes, but what remained will presumably migrate to the BWin stable, which includes Party.
Players will try other sites for a variety of reasons (just looking from an MTT perspective). I would of thought players will look at what games are on offer before depositing so if they weren't keen on bounty hunters they may not deposit in the first place. Is lots of reasons players might prefer MTTs on another site (some that came to mind)
software length of tournaments amount ftw not being big enough Availability of games throughout the day and night
fair enough points hhyft.on the subject of poker sites,seen today Ladbrokes and corals have been bought over,dont know if that will be a good or bad thing for sky/poker in general in the long run.
Interesting development.
From my personal point of view, I bailed out from Ladbrokes when they left microgaming.
As for Corals, in the summer, I walked into a shop to put a syndicate bet on, the manager talked me into opening an account with free stuff , bets etc, downloaded an app,and it didn't deliver, screwed my saturday up by about 4 hours.
I see two struggling shop fronts that get together to be better.
The cost of overheads for shopfronts tells me they can't compete with sky poker, a virtual shopfront costs a fraction,.
Comments
Another great post, one of many on the thread.
ive been playing poker for about 20 years, talking to players ,sometimes I havnt got a clue what they are talking about [especially the young guns]
only terms I ever knew were utg/button/sb/bb
it’s them there bounty hunters that are the problem
need to ask.
Has the thread comments been of help.!
After about four years of playing on sky poker (my first time i had played poker) i only clicked on poker chat to find something out. When i did i found some really good threads with some helpful tips which made me think about my game. I always read poker chat every day now just think it would be a good way to introduce players to the forum as the saying goes 'use what you have got'.
--------
Whilst you are here, you clearly read the Forum but have never posted before. That was a great maiden post, so why not stick around, & get involved in the Community here?
Almost no other Online Poker Site has a Forum, so it behoves us all to look after it.
Hope to hear more from you.
PS - Are you a vacuum cleaner?
This really deserves more love
1) Those who are new to poker.
2) Those who are new to Sky but not new to poker.
With the first group, their first experiences of online poker will be paramount in determining how likely they are to stick around. I first deposited money into an online poker account way back in 2003 (£25 on a site run by one of the big UK bookmakers). I played a couple of sit n go's and then had a message pop up in that chat box that I had won £100 in some random promo I didn't even know was running. I then bought into my first ever MTT for £2 and won the thing collecting around £200 in the process - I was clueless but instinctively very nitty which was good enough in itself back then to do pretty well. My golden start meant I was very much sold on this poker malarkey and have played on and off ever since. Had I have quickly lost my £25 deposit, I would have probably thought that it was just a silly way to waste money and not have returned - which is likely the case with many newbies today. The bigger difficulty now, with the average skill level of existing players being so much greater, is that those first deposits will be getting lost with a much greater frequency and at a faster rate than ever before. Reversing that trend without removing the skill element of poker (wherein its enduring appeal lies) may ultimately be an impossible task. However, as the whole thing was all so new to me back then, things like the software, the MTT schedule and the amount of traffic mattered to me not one jot.
I was part of the second group when I first signed up with Sky in 2011. I was given £10 for free to try out the site which I quickly managed to lose. Frankly, I thought the software was pants compared to places I'd played previously so decided not to deposit and took my action elsewhere. It was only this year that I returned to Sky when, as a much more experienced player, the quality of the software on offer was lower down my list of priorities in determining where I wanted to play (I do still thinks it's pants so am certainly pleased to hear that something new is in development). Retaining new depositors who have come across from other sites but are not new to poker is also a tricky task but one which should be more achievable. With many of the other larger sites making some unpopular changes of late, there is definitely an opportunity here. Good reliable software, a balanced appealing MTT schedule and good promos are all factors in this and there is certainly room for improvement in these areas. Ultimately though, the more of the first group Sky can attract, the more of the second group that will follow.
Maybe Sky could award a few more seats into the WSOP main event for next year. I'm sure a Sky qualifier taking down the ME should help create a bit of a UK poker boom. Go on... you know it makes sense
ZING
There may be good reason why that has not been tried before, but on the face of it, it seems an excellent idea.
I shall ask the question of the Social Media Top Lady Person.
Are you seriously saying that swapping some bounty hunters for freezeouts would mean retaining way more new players? Ridiculously sweeping statement.
And I'm not sure who would be upset? A lot of people on the forum would like more variety (myself included), however most of these people also realise that the general demand is gonna dictate the schedule, and if it's bounty hunters that players lap up then its gonna be bounty hunters dominating the MTTs.
Sky have numerous USPs, and its important to maintain these. Playing in £, no 3rd party software, a forum, live events....these things can all attract new players and, importantly, retain them.
sky have got a lot going for it as a site [things you have mentioned] so what reason can there be for new sign ups leaving.
1) Some will dabble with poker and decide its not for them.
2) Some will start off on Sky and then gravitate towards other sites.
3) Some will start off on Sky and remain active here.
4) Some will start off elsewhere and then gravitate over to Sky.
Nothing you can really do about 1, and there are always gonna be people who fall into 2 regardless of what is on offer here.
As long as Sky have a decent market share of 3 and 4 then its all gravy. And for that you need the bigger picture figures, something we're not privy too sadly. But when Sky is growing whilst online poker is/was in decline, then that is a good sign.
There was no significant poker traffic on either Coral or Ladbrokes, but what remained will presumably migrate to the BWin stable, which includes Party.
software
length of tournaments
amount ftw not being big enough
Availability of games throughout the day and night
From my personal point of view, I bailed out from Ladbrokes when they left microgaming.
As for Corals, in the summer, I walked into a shop to put a syndicate bet on, the manager talked me into opening an account with free stuff , bets etc, downloaded an app,and it didn't deliver, screwed my saturday up by about 4 hours.
I see two struggling shop fronts that get together to be better.
The cost of overheads for shopfronts tells me they can't compete with sky poker, a virtual shopfront costs a fraction,.