only connectors

zenbudhist

playing yesterday and this lassie calls an A Q all in [1/3 of her stack] with 7 6, spades not unheard of but rare enough to raise a brow ... ;why?' goes ace queen, 'priced in' replies connectors and she's right ... run it 10 times she's 2 grand better off. Which set me thinking how good are they? I only usually play them with a healthy stack, in position. Could I be missing a trick?

aussie09

lots of missing detail there but (probably) yes.

MattBates

Really hard to analyse this without stack sizes. Not sure where you get 2 grand better off from.

aussie09

they stated that he/she priced in and called, you saw their cards, you must know the answer to your question. were they priced in?

if you don't know, this is your study area.

zenbudhist

WAIT A MINUTE ... well at 6:4 a 1000 ch bet ran 10 times she will lose - 6x1000 = 6000 she will win 4 x 1000 =4000

I DID THE SUM WRONG SO NO SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE PRICE

aussie09

zenbudhist said:

WAIT A MINUTE ... well at 6:4 a 1000 ch bet ran 10 times she will lose - 6x1000 = 6000 she will win 4 x 1000 =4000

I DID THE SUM WRONG SO NO SHE DIDN'T HAVE THE PRICE

study night for you

zenbudhist

Still as chip leader it's a legit gamble, so not a bad play ... IMHO

MattBates

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjvQFtlNQ-M

Tikay10

@MattBates

Sorry Matt, I gather you had problem posting that - I found it in the Naughty Room this morning. No idea why.

zenbudhist

There is a lot of missing detail here. I wish I could post up the actual progression of the hand like you guys do. But alas that skill remains elusive, I'd ask some expert here to instruct me how to do it but no-one likes me.

K0BAYASHl

When your calling a shove with 67 your calling knowing that you are probably behind but people are normally shoving ax k8/9+ etc depending on position, 67 is probably going to do better vs Kq than k9 is going to do. So you call with 67suited knowing that opponent isn’t holding similar cards but better kicker etc

Just my opinion btw

MattBates

Stacks don't have to be exact but you can run through a rough outline of what happened in the hand and also it would be good to know what format you are playing eg DYM/MTT etc. What positions players were in (eg in the bb or mid position). Roughly what the blind levels were and rough stack sizes.

Eg player A raises (insert amount here) and player B shoves all in for (insert amount here).

Tikay10

K0BAYASHl said:

When your calling a shove with 67 your calling knowing that you are probably behind but people are normally shoving ax k8/9+ etc depending on position, 67 is probably going to do better vs Kq than k9 is going to do. So you call with 67suited knowing that opponent isn’t holding similar cards but better kicker etc

Just my opinion btw

Yes, it sucks to be dominated (K9 v KQ for example), but when we call with 6-7 it's almost always still a 40-60 affair at best.

If we call enough with 40-60's, we'll go busto sooner rather than later. We just will.

And generally - very generally, better to be the shover than the caller.

6-7 performs MUCH better if we shove with it rather than call with it, simply because every time we get a fold, the maths & stats improve. If, in theory, we shoved with 6-7, we'd get a lot of folds from better hands, and the maths would look better.

Newbies would do well to try & think "two ways to win".

By shoving we can win two ways (they fold OR our hands ends up better), whereas by calling we only give ourself one way to win.

2 beats 1 all day.

aussie09

to answer this question, we need to assess the chance of winning versus the amount required to have the opportunity and the reward that might bring.

we need to know how much is in the pot.

mumsie

@zenbudhist

Here's a link on how to post a hand.
There are other ways.

https://youtu.be/tRzIDCgyQ9E

zenbudhist

Tikay10 said:

K0BAYASHl said:

When your calling a shove with 67 your calling knowing that you are probably behind but people are normally shoving ax k8/9+ etc depending on position, 67 is probably going to do better vs Kq than k9 is going to do. So you call with 67suited knowing that opponent isn’t holding similar cards but better kicker etc

Just my opinion btw

Yes, it sucks to be dominated (K9 v KQ for example), but when we call with 6-7 it's almost always still a 40-60 affair at best.

If we call enough with 40-60's, we'll go busto sooner rather than later. We just will.

And generally - very generally, better to be the shover than the caller.

6-7 performs MUCH better if we shove with it rather than call with it, simply because every time we get a fold, the maths & stats improve. If, in theory, we shoved with 6-7, we'd get a lot of folds from better hands, and the maths would look better.

Newbies would do well to try & think "two ways to win".

By shoving we can win two ways (they fold OR our hands ends up better), whereas by calling we only give ourself one way to win.

2 beats 1 all day.

she called an all in

Tikay10

^^^

So, on the face of it, & without the stack sizes etc we keep requesting, she made a bad call imo.

That's with hindsight, of course - she obviously never knew your hand, but it will MOSTLY be either an overpair or two over cards, so 6-7 will generally be in bad shape there.

For you, of course, irrespective if she won or not, it was a GOOD CALL, as she got it in bad. You want players to make these calls.

MattBates

Tikay10 said:

^^^

So, on the face of it, & without the stack sizes etc we keep requesting, she made a bad call imo.

That's with hindsight, of course - she obviously never knew your hand, but it will MOSTLY be either an overpair or two over cards, so 6-7 will generally be in bad shape there.

For you, of course, irrespective if she won or not, it was a GOOD CALL, as she got it in bad. You want players to make these calls.

We don't know if it was a bad call or not, it was said that player said they were priced in so they may be getting the correct odds to call.

Tikay10

MattBates said:

Tikay10 said:

^^^

So, on the face of it, & without the stack sizes etc we keep requesting, she made a bad call imo.

That's with hindsight, of course - she obviously never knew your hand, but it will MOSTLY be either an overpair or two over cards, so 6-7 will generally be in bad shape there.

For you, of course, irrespective if she won or not, it was a GOOD CALL, as she got it in bad. You want players to make these calls.

We don't know if it was a bad call or not, it was said that player said they were priced in so they may be getting the correct odds to call.

Correct, but as I wrote;


"without the stack sizes etc we keep requesting"

zenbudhist

the actual hand has been buried in the sands of time ... i'll need to have a go at posting in the proper and generally more appreciated manner, next time ... apologies to all pedants

oynutter

If they were priced in, can it not still be a better decision to fold?