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Brexit

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.

    I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.

    I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.

    It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
    Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
    Which powers?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.

    I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.

    I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.

    It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
    Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
    Pots and kettles.

    The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.

    The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.

    They seem to be just making a point.

    This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.

    Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.

    The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.

    Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.

    Calais doesn't have a build up.

    There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.

    There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.

    What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?

    Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?

    This is the Brexit thread.

    Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,783
    VespaPX said:
    As per usual, a Daily Mail article riddled with misleading and false information.

    1. The most important point is buried in 1 small paragraph, simply because it doesn't fit what the Mail wants to believe

    "Admittedly, rainfall in the area in January and February 2014 was almost twice as heavy as it has been in the first two months of 2020, yet this month's rain was still 70 percent above average."

    Let's use some real figures here. Suppose over a given period the average rainfall was 100mm. 70% above is 170mm. Double that is 340mm, or 240% above average in 2014. So-the real reason for not flooding was that in Somerset (unlike other counties) the increased rainfall in 2020 was not as pronounced.

    2. The Mail is obsessed with the EU. Any changes to procedures have absolutely nothing to do with being in, or out, of the EU. And to say otherwise is rampant bollo.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,783
    edited March 2020
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    What’s the difference between immigrants crossing the channel or getting trafficked to the U.K, and the masses that want to get into Europe?

    I thought this was some sort of joke, and was waiting for you to post the punchline.

    If it is a genuine question, it is a silly one.
    For years there were camps in Calais, now in Greece.
    It seems the EU are only interested in folk under their control.
    And only interested in commerce, not social welfare.
    They speak with forked tongue.

    The EU is only interested in very limited circumstances.

    So (for example) there are clear edicts in relation to freedom of movement for EU citizens. But refugees from outside the EU are, and always have been, purely up to individual countries.

    It is (IMO) a valid criticism that the EU does little on social welfare. But flouncing off won't help on that score.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,783
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    It’s just so sad that folk believe all they see and hear.
    Maybe that’s why they can’t make head nor tail of anything.
    Just a catch up on the “freedom of the press”
    The same press that interferes with court cases,causing their collapse.
    Phone tapping,long range intrusive photography,running stories with no foundation or facts thus paying paying hefty fines.Headlining an answer, making out it’s an outburst, when not even putting the original question in the story. Clicking away at a dying Princess in car, and so on.
    All to sell a paper that if it’s not in the recycling bin on that day, will be on the following day.
    Liken it to the American gun law myself. When it’s bad it’s ugly.
    Question. Why on earth do the media think they have the right to know the U.K. approach to negotiations.
    It’s like putting in the chat box what hole cards you have, every hand.
    It’s supposed to be the most important event in the U.K. for 50odd years.(So some say)The media are doing their best to undermine the negotiations.
    The right way to deal is make out you’re interested in something when your not.
    And not interested in something when you are.
    I think the big story will be HS2.
    It’s a good idea to get the Chinese to build it, cheaper and more efficient.
    They can also buy theGovernment debt that helps fund it.
    But the Yanks won’t like the Chinese getting too involved with the U.K.
    Which could actually put the U.K. in quite a good negotiating position, or get HS2 to come in cheaper than the ballooning cost.

    The floods.
    It’s so important for Boris to visit a flooded town or village?
    November’s trip was in Haysies “ pitch” . Obv.
    If he visited one, he’d have to visit all 20+ flooded areas. The call would be “ he’s visited there, but not here.The matey that wanted to buy him a pint🤣. I wonder how many takes it took to nearly get that interview nearly right.
    The higher you build barriers, the more you channel water,which will make it even higher.
    So high, that it will take out the bridges.
    There’s so many places, especiallyin the Welsh valleys that have no flood plains.
    Those two storms aren’t necessarily the worst the U.K. will ever see, if you believe in climate change.
    So 8ft, 10ft,15 ft barriers? You would have to over engineer them.locals would moan it’s an eyesore, affecting tourism and property prices.
    Unfortunately for them,they are in a similar position to those that live on the slopes, base of volcanoes, or earth quake fault lines.
    All the Governments can do is save lives.
    Why are you shaking in your boots at no deal?
    I’d see a lag, then rebuild. No prob.
    Over to you.

    Britain 'needs to follow Holland's example' to conquer devastating floods
    EXCLUSIVE: Turning the tide - how Holland conquered flooding, its 'grey monster' which killed 1,8000 people, and the lessons Britain needs to learn from a nation which has since prevented further deaths



    Photo shows Cassions (Mulberry Harbours built for WW11) being used to close the last breach in the **** in 1953 after they gave way during a massive storm in the North Sea flooding massive area and killing 1835 people

    Having fled on to the roof as the flood surged, a petrified family clung on as the structure broke to bits and they were sent hurtling across the water.
    They spent the freezing night floating along on fragments of the roof. Not all of them survived.

    Mina Kooijman, who was 12 at the time of the ordeal in 1953, said she watched the sea water in their village in the Netherlands rush towards them “like a grey monster”.
    Around 1,800 of her compatriots were killed. It kick-started huge investment in flood defences, and no one has been killed by floods since then.
    Experts now say Britain needs to follow the Dutch example.


    The jewel in the crown is the Eastern Scheldt storm surge barrier, completed in 1986, which is nearly six miles long.
    Flood prevention is a source of national pride, evident as Jeroen Kramer, from the Water Management Information Centre, shows me around what he called “the Netherlands’ front door”.

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-needs-follow-hollands-example-21618693
    I’m thinking that most of Holland, if not all, is under sea level.A totally different problem.
    Our flooding is mainly caused by too much wet stuff falling from the sky.
    We have the Thames Barrier regarding surges.
    Dams would be a possibility, good for GDP and power generation.
    The Thames barrier was built as a direct consequence of this. Many people died in a village close to me (Jaywick) in 1953.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
    How many migrants/ refugees cross the channel and get a roof over their heads. Albeit a detention Centre at the very least.
    We wouldn’t allow massive camps set up here. Our standards are higher.
  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,783
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
    How many migrants/ refugees cross the channel and get a roof over their heads. Albeit a detention Centre at the very least.
    We wouldn’t allow massive camps set up here. Our standards are higher.
    Sadly, no. Our willingness to do our fair share to help in a major humanitarian crisis is much lower.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    Essexphil said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    What’s the difference between immigrants crossing the channel or getting trafficked to the U.K, and the masses that want to get into Europe?

    I thought this was some sort of joke, and was waiting for you to post the punchline.

    If it is a genuine question, it is a silly one.
    For years there were camps in Calais, now in Greece.
    It seems the EU are only interested in folk under their control.
    And only interested in commerce, not social welfare.
    They speak with forked tongue.

    The EU is only interested in very limited circumstances.

    So (for example) there are clear edicts in relation to freedom of movement for EU citizens. But refugees from outside the EU are, and always have been, purely up to individual countries.

    It is (IMO) a valid criticism that the EU does little on social welfare. But flouncing off won't help on that score.
    So we now with to criticise the EU for too much legislation. but also not enough legislation.
    We think we should be an independent country, but rely on the EU for legislation.
    Who will we blame when we have left?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
    How many migrants/ refugees cross the channel and get a roof over their heads. Albeit a detention Centre at the very least.
    We wouldn’t allow massive camps set up here. Our standards are higher.
    What would we do with 5 million Syrians?
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    The crisis exacerbated by the US pulling out from middle eastern conflicts.
    And with certain ties from Europe.
    Which then allows Russia to flex their muscles, standard practice.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
    How many are the EU likely to take in?
    Then we can come up with our quota for an average.
    You could disperse them around the world, but the Greece border is a problem for the EU.
    There are far more refugees around the world than these Syrian refugees.
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
    Don’t know, what’s your guess?
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.

    I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.

    I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.

    It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
    Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
    Pots and kettles.

    The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.

    The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.

    They seem to be just making a point.

    This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.

    Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.

    The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.

    Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.

    Calais doesn't have a build up.

    There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.

    There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.

    What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?

    Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?

    This is the Brexit thread.

    Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
    Glaringly obvious.
    Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.
    It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.
    That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists,
    gold, diamonds etc.
    When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are.
    If they publish them , that is.
    If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.
    I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.
    Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.
    Some folk will suffer,that’s life.
    One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs.
    It only gets a mention every now and then.

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    It may surprise you to find out that each EU member is an independent country.

    I don't believe that there is a build up in Calais.

    I don't think anyone turns a blind eye, although we have been pretty bad on controls in this country.

    It is a pity that some people can only criticise families attempting to escape wars, and persecution, in a number of places throughout the world.
    Losing the plot there a bit Haysie, as I’m criticizing the powers.
    Pots and kettles.

    The EU have an arrangement with Turkey to look after the Syrian refugees, and make a financial contribution to Turkey for doing so.

    The Turks have got the hump for a minute, but I am sure it will be resolved.

    They seem to be just making a point.

    This would seem preferable to many of them killing themselves at sea, trying to reach Europe.

    Although it would seem that many people wouldn't care what happens to them.

    The EU have a rule that migrants are dealt with by the first member country they enter.

    Although some members have helped out other member countries, by accepting migrants that have landed elsewhere.

    Calais doesn't have a build up.

    There was a camp in Calais, but not anymore.

    There are a number of refugees that try to access the UK, to join their families, etc.

    What have migrants in Greece or Calais got to do with Brexit?

    Or are you daft enough to think that Brexit will stop migrants from attempting to access the UK?

    This is the Brexit thread.

    Why don't you start a moaning about migrants thread?
    Glaringly obvious.
    Part of the election and Brexit was to do with our borders, was it not? Think so.

    We had borders before Brexit.
    We just didn't look after them very well.




    It’s not only migrants that our border forces should keep a close eye on, it’s many things.

    Leaving the EU will not stop migrants.




    That Lorry that contained the deceased could have been full of arms, drugs, radical terrorists,
    gold, diamonds etc.


    True, but leaving the EU, does not automatically stop a repeat.



    When the investigations are over, you’ll find out how many corrupt drivers there are.
    If they publish them , that is.

    I don't think you will.
    How will an investigation into one particular incident do that?




    If you want borders, then have them. Beef them up.

    We have always had borders.
    We could have beefed them up while being members of the EU.



    I couldn’t care less if there are delays. It’s tough.

    You don't matter very much.
    People running big businesses do care.




    Better to act responsibly than to focus on commerce all the time.

    We had illegal immigration before we joined the EU.


    Some folk will suffer,that’s life.

    Who will suffer?


    One of the biggest problems in this country is drugs.

    We had drugs before we joined the EU, and leaving will make no difference to drugs.



    It only gets a mention every now and then.

    I worry about you on times.

    You do know that this is the Brexit thread not the flooding thread?

    You are producing arguments that will be unaffected by Brexit.

    As EU members we have freedom of movement which allows EU citizens to come here to legally live and work.

    Therefore the asylum seekers don't come from other EU member countries.

    When we leave, freedom of movement will stop, but the asylum seekers wont.

    They estimate that we may have one and a half million illegal immigrants living and working in this country.

    Boris wanted to give them an amnesty.

    Well how did they get here?

    They are not from within the EU.

    We currently have record immigration figures from outside the EU, while immigration from inside the EU is falling.

    So immigration is increasing.

    Leaving the EU will not necessarily decrease immigration, legal or otherwise, or put a stop to smuggling.

    Nor will it reduce the number of refugees trying to reach the UK.


  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
    How many are the EU likely to take in?
    Then we can come up with our quota for an average.
    You could disperse them around the world, but the Greece border is a problem for the EU.
    There are far more refugees around the world than these Syrian refugees.
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
    Don’t know, what’s your guess?
    Not many.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    The crisis exacerbated by the US pulling out from middle eastern conflicts.
    And with certain ties from Europe.
    Which then allows Russia to flex their muscles, standard practice.

    You probably think Tony Blair is to blame.

    Try to think Brexit.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    Why are the EU not helping Greece with their border problem? It’s a Union after all.
    Maybe it’s like the build up over the years from Calais.
    Turn a blind eye, unless they’re under our control?

    How many of the 5million Syrian refugees that are currently in Turkey, do you think we should take?
    How many migrants/ refugees cross the channel and get a roof over their heads. Albeit a detention Centre at the very least.

    Not many.



    We wouldn’t allow massive camps set up here. Our standards are higher.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    The crisis exacerbated by the US pulling out from middle eastern conflicts.
    And with certain ties from Europe.
    Which then allows Russia to flex their muscles, standard practice.

    You probably think Tony Blair is to blame.

    Try to think Brexit.
    There’s not much to say on Brexit, as the details of negotiations are with the negotiators.
    I’m not into cartoons or hearsay.
    I’ll get me coat.👋
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 35,897
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    The crisis exacerbated by the US pulling out from middle eastern conflicts.
    And with certain ties from Europe.
    Which then allows Russia to flex their muscles, standard practice.

    You probably think Tony Blair is to blame.

    Try to think Brexit.
    There’s not much to say on Brexit, as the details of negotiations are with the negotiators.
    I’m not into cartoons or hearsay.
    I’ll get me coat.👋
    There is plenty going on.

    EU tells UK to respect its independence

    Britain must respect the EU's "independence" and accept that the bloc has its own red-lines in trade talks, the bloc's chief negotiator has warned Boris Johnson.
    Michel Barnier was speaking in Brussels at the close of the first round of Brexit trade negotiations, where he warned that "very, very difficult" differences were emerging between both sides with the clock ticking down.
    "Let’s avoid any misunderstandings: the UK has spent a lot of time this week insisting on its independence: ladies and gentlemen, nobody contests the UK’s independence. We also ask the UK to respect our own independence," Mr Barnier said.
    "Of course, we respect the UK’s sovereignty, and just as the UK sets its own conditions for opening up its market, the EU sets its own conditions for opening up its markets for goods and services. The real question is not about our reciprocal independence: the real question is what we do with our respective independence.
    "Our common challenge now is as two independent entities to agree together on ground rules that makes it possible for us to cooperate, to trade, and to travel."


    Giving a review of the first week's talks, the chief negotiator said the UK was refusing to sign a commitment to stay in the European Convention on Human Rights, as well as rejecting an agreement tying it to "high standards" for labour, environmental, and state aid regulations.



    "The United Kingdom informs us that they do not wish to commit formally to applying the European Convention on Human Rights," Mr Barnier said.



    On the "level playingfield" for regulations, Mr Barnier said the UK said it wanted to maintain high standards, but would not legally commit to them.



    "Whilst we agree on preserving high standards, my question is why not commit to them formally? It's a question of trust," he said.



    Both sides in negotiations keenly aware that talks, which involve between 200 and 300 officials, could be hit by the ongoing coronavirus outbreak.
    Asked whether talks would definitely continue Mr Barnier said he did not want to "commit to anything", but said "there's no ban on meetings".
    "We’re talking maximum 200 people in one room... We will be taking all necessary precautions so that we can continue," he said.
    A senior EU official involved in negotiations downplayed the suggestion there could be an effect: "We haven't discussed the possible measures to take with the British. We'll see how the situation will evolve."

    Mr Barnier said he thought the degree of change that Brexit would bring on 1 January 2021, when the transition period ends, has been "very much underestimated". He added that the UK could still extend the transition period if it decided too – though Boris Johnson has ruled out doing so.

    https://uk.yahoo.com/news/eu-tells-uk-respect-independence-124400280.html
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    edited March 2020
    VespaPX said:
    Or try something different. I did hear of this a few years ago. They’ve obv kicked on with it.
    No lawn to cut neither.
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