SKY HIGH RAKE

chicknMelt

I have played a few SNGs on Sky Poker recently and have come to realise how painfully high the rake is on a lot of them, especially the turbo formats.


Standard practice for poker sites is to charge less rake for games that finish quickly (less use of the sites resources) and how beatable the game format is (so that some people can actually win/ keep games running). For example, It is standard to charge 10% rake for an normal speed MTT, but a lot of sites charge less for turbos or increased variance formats like bounty hunters.

SKY DONT DO THIS. THEY CHARGE 10% FOR EVERYTHING.


some examples:

888 MTT: normal speed (10 mins+) = 10%, turbo (6 mins) = 8.33%, super turbo (3mins) = 5%
888 SNG: hyper dym (2mins) = 4.5%, standard sng (8 mins) = 9%, hyper standard sng (2 mins) = 5.5%

Pokerstars MTT: normal speed (7mins, shallow increases) = 10%, turbo(5mins, shallow increases) = 10%, hyper (3 mins, shallow increases) = 5%
Pokerstars SNG: 50/50 (6 mins) = 5.6%, standard Turbo(5 mins) = 7.4%, standard hyper (2mins) = 4%


Its also important to note that of all the other sites I looked were either similar or better than pokerstars or 888. Party poker for example has excellent rake on almost all of its products. Bounty hunter tournaments all have 5% rake.

Its also important to note Pokerstars have been absolutely blasted in the poker industry by almost everyone for having high rake, but compared to sky's is great!

SKY charges 10% for Normal MTTs, Turbo MTTS, Normal SNG, DYM, Turbo SNG etc. A turbo DYM with 2 min blinds and 6 people, that is over in 15 minutes should definitely not have 10% rake. Its about DOUBLE anyone would charge and it makes the games very hard to beat, probably impossible if you have a hard table.

Im surprised no one has mentioned this before, and I think it needs to be urgently addressed.

How can sky justify such high, uncompetitive rake?

dobiesdraw

Are recs going to be bothered ? ....if the answer is obv no , then there I would suggest is the answer . If you are a pro , then you are going to gravitate surely to sites that charge less rake , unless there is a perceived opinion to play elsewhere is " softer" .
Just my opinion .

Essexphil

dobiesdraw said:

Are recs going to be bothered ? ....if the answer is obv no , then there I would suggest is the answer . If you are a pro , then you are going to gravitate surely to sites that charge less rake , unless there is a perceived opinion to play elsewhere is " softer" .
Just my opinion .

Mr Melt is certainly no Rec, and is someone that I am sure Sky will listen to very carefully....

Agree totally re Turbo rake...

dobiesdraw

Essexphil said:

dobiesdraw said:

Are recs going to be bothered ? ....if the answer is obv no , then there I would suggest is the answer . If you are a pro , then you are going to gravitate surely to sites that charge less rake , unless there is a perceived opinion to play elsewhere is " softer" .
Just my opinion .

Mr Melt is certainly no Rec, and is someone that I am sure Sky will listen to very carefully....

I wasn't suggesting he was ...perhaps re read . Perhaps also look at the number of years I've been on the site and the people I've also seen come and go .

Essexphil

dobiesdraw said:

Essexphil said:

dobiesdraw said:

Are recs going to be bothered ? ....if the answer is obv no , then there I would suggest is the answer . If you are a pro , then you are going to gravitate surely to sites that charge less rake , unless there is a perceived opinion to play elsewhere is " softer" .
Just my opinion .

Mr Melt is certainly no Rec, and is someone that I am sure Sky will listen to very carefully....

I wasn't suggesting he was ...perhaps re read . Perhaps also look at the number of years I've been on the site and the people I've also seen come and go .

Why?
I wasn't suggesting you thought he was.

People like Andy don't change on a whim (unlike a lot of pros), and isn't big on whinging, hence why I'm sure Sky will look carefully at their current offering.

chicknMelt

dobiesdraw said:

Are recs going to be bothered ? ....if the answer is obv no , then there I would suggest is the answer . If you are a pro , then you are going to gravitate surely to sites that charge less rake , unless there is a perceived opinion to play elsewhere is " softer" .
Just my opinion .

I think ANYONE would be bothered about how much they are being charged to play. I do agree that pro players/ players that play a lot are more likely to look into it and say something though.

dobiesdraw

Essexphil said:

dobiesdraw said:

Essexphil said:

dobiesdraw said:

Are recs going to be bothered ? ....if the answer is obv no , then there I would suggest is the answer . If you are a pro , then you are going to gravitate surely to sites that charge less rake , unless there is a perceived opinion to play elsewhere is " softer" .
Just my opinion .

Mr Melt is certainly no Rec, and is someone that I am sure Sky will listen to very carefully....

I wasn't suggesting he was ...perhaps re read . Perhaps also look at the number of years I've been on the site and the people I've also seen come and go .

Why?
I wasn't suggesting you thought he was.

People like Andy don't change on a whim (unlike a lot of pros), and isn't big on whinging, hence why I'm sure Sky will look carefully at their current offering.

Ok ., I misunderstood what you typed then ...My point was i've been on here a lot of years and am well aware he isnt a rec ....still my point about recs not being bothered about rake levels is valid and on point . How many pros on here versus recs ? ..

chicknMelt

dobiesdraw said:

Essexphil said:

dobiesdraw said:

Essexphil said:

dobiesdraw said:

Are recs going to be bothered ? ....if the answer is obv no , then there I would suggest is the answer . If you are a pro , then you are going to gravitate surely to sites that charge less rake , unless there is a perceived opinion to play elsewhere is " softer" .
Just my opinion .

Mr Melt is certainly no Rec, and is someone that I am sure Sky will listen to very carefully....

I wasn't suggesting he was ...perhaps re read . Perhaps also look at the number of years I've been on the site and the people I've also seen come and go .

Why?
I wasn't suggesting you thought he was.

People like Andy don't change on a whim (unlike a lot of pros), and isn't big on whinging, hence why I'm sure Sky will look carefully at their current offering.

Ok ., I misunderstood what you typed then ...My point was i've been on here a lot of years and am well aware he isnt a rec ....still my point about recs not being bothered about rake levels is valid and on point . How many pros on here versus recs ? ..

Are you saying you don't want to be charged less? something in line with what other sites would charge...

dobiesdraw

chicknMelt said:

dobiesdraw said:

Are recs going to be bothered ? ....if the answer is obv no , then there I would suggest is the answer . If you are a pro , then you are going to gravitate surely to sites that charge less rake , unless there is a perceived opinion to play elsewhere is " softer" .
Just my opinion .

I think ANYONE would be bothered about how much they are being charged to play. I do agree that pro players/ players that play a lot are more likely to look into it and say something though.

yea , sounds logical ...but people get used to a site , it's convenient , they like the games , its soft ...etc etc ...so they sort of ignore it , .....easy to do if you arent making a living out of it , in which case , as ive already said you would just migrate , if you thought that the "softness" , didnt negate the extra rake .

K0BAYASHl

If you search for High rake in the search bar. Theres lots of threads mentioning high rake. Altho quite a few seem to be for cash. But still some for SnG's.

Like this one that didn't get answered https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby/community/forums#/discussion/129629/heads-up-hyper-turbo-rake

Itsover4u

yeah iv made threads on this exact thing before but they were genrally ignored

chicknMelt

K0BAYASHl said:

If you search for High rake in the search bar. Theres lots of threads mentioning high rake. Altho quite a few seem to be for cash. But still some for SnG's.

Like this one that didn't get answered https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby/community/forums#/discussion/129629/heads-up-hyper-turbo-rake

hopefully they do something this time if the thread gets some support...

dobiesdraw

Itsover4u said:

yeah iv made threads on this exact thing before but they were genrally ignored

But you still play here . For what reasons ? ...presumably you ignore the rake , for other benefits , hence proving the points I was making earlier . Obv if you play the bulk of your play elsewhwere , then that also echoes my points , but is something sky should address .

kapowblamz

It's similar to the rake they charge at spin ups relative to normal cash games. From my point of view, as a regular, I think it's way way waaaaaay too high. Grinding anything below 1.5/3 spin ups is definitely tough and possibly stupid. There is a competitor out there who charge 1% for the same game format, albeit with a slightly bigger cap, and maybe Sky's stance is a bit archaic.

Luckily Sky have a fairly decent rakeback system for high volume players.

dobiesdraw

kapowblamz said:

It's similar to the rake they charge at spin ups relative to normal cash games. From my point of view, as a regular, I think it's way way waaaaaay too high. Grinding anything below 1.5/3 spin ups is definitely tough and possibly stupid. There is a competitor out there who charge 1% for the same game format, albeit with a slightly bigger cap, and maybe Sky's stance is a bit archaic.

Luckily Sky have a fairly decent rakeback system for high volume players.

So you personally ignore the rake because of that then or you play the volume of your play elsewhere ?

Essexphil

Sky's rake generally is higher than average, but generally it is about profit (or fun) rather than the amount of rake.

However, there is a tipping point, and for Turbo DYMs/SNGs the rake (which is double of many rivals) is unsustainable in the Medium Term. And most of us want there to be a Medium Term.

Many people play Cash/MTTs, rather than DYMs. And SNGs rarely run.

dobiesdraw

Summed up simply by perceived value being better than high rake . Not likely to change and don't hear too many sky pros complaining about it and certainly no recs.......in true mythbusters style ....busted .

kapowblamz

dobiesdraw said:

kapowblamz said:

It's similar to the rake they charge at spin ups relative to normal cash games. From my point of view, as a regular, I think it's way way waaaaaay too high. Grinding anything below 1.5/3 spin ups is definitely tough and possibly stupid. There is a competitor out there who charge 1% for the same game format, albeit with a slightly bigger cap, and maybe Sky's stance is a bit archaic.

Luckily Sky have a fairly decent rakeback system for high volume players.

So you personally ignore the rake because of that then or you play the volume of your play elsewhere ?

The rake is never ignorable at spins but you have to deal with it because at the end of the day you can still make money on them. The problem with the SnGs is that nobody can beat them enough to be worthwhile because of their rake so they don't run often.

dobiesdraw

kapowblamz said:

dobiesdraw said:

kapowblamz said:

It's similar to the rake they charge at spin ups relative to normal cash games. From my point of view, as a regular, I think it's way way waaaaaay too high. Grinding anything below 1.5/3 spin ups is definitely tough and possibly stupid. There is a competitor out there who charge 1% for the same game format, albeit with a slightly bigger cap, and maybe Sky's stance is a bit archaic.

Luckily Sky have a fairly decent rakeback system for high volume players.

So you personally ignore the rake because of that then or you play the volume of your play elsewhere ?

The rake is never ignorable at spins but you have to deal with it because at the end of the day you can still make money on them. The problem with the SnGs is that nobody can beat them enough to be worthwhile because of their rake so they don't run often.

so thats my point

Sngs ..double ups run most of the day ...fairly regularly depending on what stakes you're talking about?

chicknMelt

dobiesdraw said:

kapowblamz said:

dobiesdraw said:

kapowblamz said:

It's similar to the rake they charge at spin ups relative to normal cash games. From my point of view, as a regular, I think it's way way waaaaaay too high. Grinding anything below 1.5/3 spin ups is definitely tough and possibly stupid. There is a competitor out there who charge 1% for the same game format, albeit with a slightly bigger cap, and maybe Sky's stance is a bit archaic.

Luckily Sky have a fairly decent rakeback system for high volume players.

So you personally ignore the rake because of that then or you play the volume of your play elsewhere ?

The rake is never ignorable at spins but you have to deal with it because at the end of the day you can still make money on them. The problem with the SnGs is that nobody can beat them enough to be worthwhile because of their rake so they don't run often.

so thats my point

but the games generally only run when there is a "mark"

high rake encourages bum hunting because it is -ev for regs to play vs each other.

I think you are missing Phils point about the games being sustainable for the medium to long term.

Yes, if rake is high but the games are soft enough to make up for it they will continue to run... but for how long?

dobiesdraw

chicknMelt said:

The rake is never ignorable at spins but you have to deal with it because at the end of the day you can still make money on them. The problem with the SnGs is that nobody can beat them enough to be worthwhile because of their rake so they don't run often.

so thats my point

but the games generally only run when there is a "mark"

high rake encourages bum hunting because it is -ev for regs to play vs each other.

I think you are missing Phils point about the games being sustainable for the medium to long term.

Yes, if rake is high but the games are soft enough to make up for it they will continue to run... but for how long?

I don't know but they've been running for a fair few years and as long as recs like me continue to play them without consideration to the rake , then they will continue to do so .....I don't play cash games only low stakes dyms( dont expect to beat the rake) , and the occasional mtt , the rake isnt an issue for me ...am i an average sky player ?