CASH GAME HOURLY RATE

ALAN_18

For those of you who play cash games professionally or seriously for a side income I was wondering what your hourly rate is ?

I understand if people don't want disclose this type of information on an open forum, just curious as to how much the best players make at each stake.

Obviously you have to take into consideration stakes played, amount of tables played at a time, size of sample etc...

If my calculations are right here then once you reach say 50nl there is potential to make a decent hourly wage. Lets say you play 6 tables and average 500 hands/hr. You beat the level for a good 3bb/100 winrate theres £1.50 x 5 = £7.50.

Then add your priority rakeback and cash bonuses so say the equivalent to 20% rakeback. Say you play 6 tables of 50nl, 5 hours a day, 7 days a week. You rake £167 per day so 20% of that is - £33.40 and if you want to work out what that is per hour divide the sum by your 5 hours which equals - £6.68

So add your 3bb/100 winrate plus your 20% rakeback and your hourly is roughly - £14.18. Times that by 35 hours and your weekly total is - £496.30

Anybody who plays them stakes have a similar hourly income ? As I am sure the best 50nl players are winning by atleast that winrate.

Duesenberg

Theoretically your numbers look about right to me.

The only thing I may dispute are your estimations on rake. £167 rake paid on 2,500 hands at 50nl works out as 13.36bb/100 in rake, which I think is a little on the high side. On sites where I can fully track my hand history, I find 5% rake in 6max cash games at 50nl and under comes in at around the 10bb/100 mark, so you'd be looking at £125 in rake paid per day and so £5 per hour in rakeback. However, if your play style is somewhat on the loose end of the spectrum and/or you are playing short handed a lot then your original figures may be closer to correct.

The reality is that it would be tough to get that kind of volume in consistently on Sky at just 50nl as there are simply not enough 50nl tables running a lot of the time. It is certainly possible to make £2k per month playing low stakes games on Sky, but it is not as smoothly simple as your hypothesis suggests (you seem to know what you're talking about though so I'm sure you realise this).

ALAN_18

Thanks for the reply mate and yes was just using 50nl as an example. In relation to the daily rake I just used an online rakeback calculator where you just fill in the amount of tables you play and how many hours per day, not the total amount of hands so thanks for correcting me there.

Do you play for a living or for fun/side income ?

Duesenberg

I principally play for fun and some extra pocket money. Cash games are my first love but I can occasionally be found playing MTT's when I'm in the mood for some mental torture

I'm guessing you're new to Sky so best of luck if you make it onto the tables. Are you an aspiring pro?

ALAN_18

I just play for fun like yourself, I love the game and trying to improve, the money would just be a bonus. I have been playing a mixture of 4nl and 10nl for the last few weeks and have been doing OK, however I am fully aware that these levels are a lot softer than 30nl and 50nl.

I just need to improve my mental game more than anything, try to understand variance better, work on my tilt issues and try and learn to play within my bankroll.

What stakes are you currently playing ? HU or 6-max ?

Duesenberg

I play anything from 10nl-50nl, but the majority of my volume tends to come from 20nl and 30nl tables. I mostly play 6max but I do enjoy HU too. I'd like to play more HU really but the rake cap on Sky is prohibitively high compared to other sites for HU cash (take the hint Sky ).

Good luck with your goals and climbing the stakes. In case you're not aware, the rake lowers to 5% once you reach 20nl (it's 7.5% at 10nl and under), which makes the jump a little easier as it's like receiving a natural boost in your winrate.

ALAN_18

Thanks mate will no doubt see you at the tables in the near future One last question if you don't mind and I know its not an easy question to answer as a lot of different factors come into play but how do 20nl, 30nl and 50nl play compared to 10nl ?

I mean in my opinion the skill gap between 4nl and 10nl is not massive and if you can beat 4nl for a decent clip then 10nl should not be a problem either.

GL anyway and thanks for your comments...

kapowblamz

The rake at 10NL is 7.5% which makes a humongous difference. The games at 10nl would have to be much much much softer to make them worth playing relative to 20NL. You'd need double or triple the recreational players at 10NL compared to 20NL.

That's how much a difference 2.5% rake from every pot makes.

ALAN_18

kapowblamz said:

The rake at 10NL is 7.5% which makes a humongous difference. The games at 10nl would have to be much much much softer to make them worth playing relative to 20NL. You'd need double or triple the recreational players at 10NL compared to 20NL.

That's how much a difference 2.5% rake from every pot makes.

So do you think it would make sense to skip 10nl and move from 4nl straight to 20nl ?

Or rather than moving up and playing 10nl exclusively do you think I would be better mixing a few soft tables of 10nl in with my 4nl tables ?

Obviously this choice would be bankroll permitting, and then some 10nl tables would still probably have to be mixed in if there was not 6 tables of 20nl running.

kapowblamz

All you should be concerned with is where you think you will make the best hourly.

Working on your HU game can be a good idea so you can do a lot of table starting. You'll be amazed at how profitable that can be.

ALAN_18

After withdrawing my last deposit I am left with £230 profit which has all come from playing 4nl. Here are the two options I have been considering, would like to know which one you think would work the best for me.

Play 4nl till I have £300 and then move up and 6 table 10nl if there are 6 tables running, if not add in a few 4nl tables.

Play 4nl till I have £600 and then move up and 6 table 20nl if there are 6 tables running, if not add in a few 10nl tables.

At the moment I just want to be sure that I can beat a certain level for a decent sample before moving up, but if you think that skipping 10nl will be worth while I might just do that.

I haven't noticed a whole lot of difference between 4nl and 10nl personally but have not played that much 10nl so there is a genuine chance that I was just running hot at 10nl.

ALAN_18

kapowblamz said:

All you should be concerned with is where you think you will make the best hourly.

Working on your HU game can be a good idea so you can do a lot of table starting. You'll be amazed at how profitable that can be.

Thanks for the reply and I can see how starting your own tables can be very profitable as the fun players tend to want action straight away and don't want to be waiting in quees to join the table. Shame i'm such a bad HU player

Can I ask what stakes you play mate and whether your main game is HU or 6-max ?

kapowblamz

Your plan is sound enough. The usual advise people give is to take shots at the next stake. If you lose 2 or 3 buyins then go back down. If you win then bob's your uncle, ****'s your aunt, and on you go.

Never be scared money, tho.

K0BAYASHl

ALAN_18 said:

kapowblamz said:

All you should be concerned with is where you think you will make the best hourly.

Working on your HU game can be a good idea so you can do a lot of table starting. You'll be amazed at how profitable that can be.

Thanks for the reply and I can see how starting your own tables can be very profitable as the fun players tend to want action straight away and don't want to be waiting in quees to join the table. Shame i'm such a bad HU player

Can I ask what stakes you play mate and whether your main game is HU or 6-max ?

Table selection is key also. You want to maximise your chances and pick soft tables. Starting tables is a good idea like kapow mentioned. Not only do you get extra points 3 handed or less its also good practice. 4nl to 20nl is a big jump. Move to 10nl for a few weeks and if you have had a winning week then have 4 tables 10nl and 2 tables 20nl maybe.

kapowblamz

ALAN_18 said:

kapowblamz said:

All you should be concerned with is where you think you will make the best hourly.

Working on your HU game can be a good idea so you can do a lot of table starting. You'll be amazed at how profitable that can be.

Thanks for the reply and I can see how starting your own tables can be very profitable as the fun players tend to want action straight away and don't want to be waiting in quees to join the table. Shame i'm such a bad HU player

Can I ask what stakes you play mate and whether your main game is HU or 6-max ?

I play everything really. My main game is wherever the action is in the 'medium' tab of the client. That usually ends up being spin ups and omaha.

EDIT: Removed demeaning slur.

ALAN_18

My main problem in the past has been my mental game.

My last attempt I was 6 tabling 10nl with a £150 bank roll. I genuinely believe that I can beat 10nl but I have no evidence to support this, at least not over a decent sample. I know 100% I am a decent winner at 4nl over a decent sample, however I know this is not hard at all for anyone with basic poker knowledge.

The first day or two I was up at least 5 buy-ins then on the third day I dropped back to even or just below what I started with on day one and this had a real negative impact on my thought process. Writing it now it seems pathetic as It was probably only a 3 day (15 hour BE stretch) and I would of probably overcome it if I kept on playing. Its just that I had never had such a long BE stretch at 4nl even though it was only roughly 7.5k hands.

I understand that volume is the key to moving up and you should not beat yourself up over a loosing session here and there as the higher the stakes you play, the better your opponents will be and the higher the variance will be.

I'm thinking maybe wait till I have £400 (40 buy-ins for 10nl) then like K0BAYASHl said play something along the lines of 4 x 10nl and 2 x 4nl tables. I think the more buy-ins that I have the more comfortable I am going to feel as like last time starting with just 15 buy-ins and then dropping to below what I started with I felt the pressure that if I don't win a few buy-ins in the next day or so I am going to have to move down again which is something I did not want.

ALAN_18

@ KOBAYASHI

Thanks for your reply, can I ask whether you play for a living or for fun/side income, what stakes you play and HU or 6-max ?

ALAN_18

kapowblamz said:

ALAN_18 said:

kapowblamz said:

All you should be concerned with is where you think you will make the best hourly.

Working on your HU game can be a good idea so you can do a lot of table starting. You'll be amazed at how profitable that can be.

Thanks for the reply and I can see how starting your own tables can be very profitable as the fun players tend to want action straight away and don't want to be waiting in quees to join the table. Shame i'm such a bad HU player

Can I ask what stakes you play mate and whether your main game is HU or 6-max ?

I play everything really. My main game is wherever the action is in the 'medium' tab of the client. That usually ends up being spin ups and omaha.

EDIT: Removed demeaning slur.

???

ALAN_18

Medium as in stakes and do you prefer cash games or MTTs ?

kapowblamz

ALAN_18 said:

kapowblamz said:

ALAN_18 said:

kapowblamz said:

All you should be concerned with is where you think you will make the best hourly.

Working on your HU game can be a good idea so you can do a lot of table starting. You'll be amazed at how profitable that can be.

Thanks for the reply and I can see how starting your own tables can be very profitable as the fun players tend to want action straight away and don't want to be waiting in quees to join the table. Shame i'm such a bad HU player

Can I ask what stakes you play mate and whether your main game is HU or 6-max ?

I play everything really. My main game is wherever the action is in the 'medium' tab of the client. That usually ends up being spin ups and omaha.

EDIT: Removed demeaning slur.

???

I used a term for predatory behaviour towards recs that I probably shouldn't have.

ALAN_18

kapowblamz said:

ALAN_18 said:

kapowblamz said:

ALAN_18 said:

kapowblamz said:

All you should be concerned with is where you think you will make the best hourly.

Working on your HU game can be a good idea so you can do a lot of table starting. You'll be amazed at how profitable that can be.

Thanks for the reply and I can see how starting your own tables can be very profitable as the fun players tend to want action straight away and don't want to be waiting in quees to join the table. Shame i'm such a bad HU player

Can I ask what stakes you play mate and whether your main game is HU or 6-max ?

I play everything really. My main game is wherever the action is in the 'medium' tab of the client. That usually ends up being spin ups and omaha.

EDIT: Removed demeaning slur.

???

I used a term for predatory behaviour towards recs that I probably shouldn't have.