I guess we should just accept our lot in life, keep schtum, and if anything similar happens to any of us , just doff our cap and say sorry for getting in your way guvnor.
My view is Diplomats and their families shouldn’t escape prosecution if they cause the death of a person, guess I’m in the minority but I’m ok with that .
I guess we should just accept our lot in life, keep schtum, and if anything similar happens to any of us , just doff our cap and say sorry for getting in your way guvnor.
The Mother is supposed to have just wanted an apology. She didn't, she wanted an apology, and a big song and dance. She claims to have been ignored, yet she has met Dominic Raab, Donald Trump, and Boris Johnson has been involved.
My view is Diplomats and their families shouldn’t escape prosecution if they cause the death of a person, guess I’m in the minority but I’m ok with that .
I think you are missing the "in a road accident" point.
How could you change the law, without putting Diplomats, and their families at risk, all over the world?
I don't think that our police, and Foreign Office, emerge from this with much credibility.
Why didn't they act more quickly?
Do you think there is any chance of this woman ever returning to the UK?
Sometimes we just have to accept stuff that is not ideal.
Like we will probably have to accept that someone will get run over and killed by a pushbike, once every hundred years.
“ Missing the Road Accident point” Hardly relevant You saying it’s ok if it’s only a road accident , as opposed to purposely stabbing someone ? What if that happened ? Still ok to escape punishment?
“ Missing the Road Accident point” Hardly relevant You saying it’s ok if it’s only a road accident , as opposed to purposely stabbing someone ? What if that happened ? Still ok to escape punishment?
In my world its still driving without due care and attention at best and vehicular manslaughter at worst...she was driving on the wrong side of the road and should face prsoecution
“ Missing the Road Accident point” Hardly relevant You saying it’s ok if it’s only a road accident , as opposed to purposely stabbing someone ? What if that happened ? Still ok to escape punishment?
“ Missing the Road Accident point” Hardly relevant You saying it’s ok if it’s only a road accident , as opposed to purposely stabbing someone ? What if that happened ? Still ok to escape punishment?
If you were unlucky enough to kill someone in a car accident would you consider yourself a murderer?
If you stabbed someone to death you would have to?
“ Missing the Road Accident point” Hardly relevant You saying it’s ok if it’s only a road accident , as opposed to purposely stabbing someone ? What if that happened ? Still ok to escape punishment?
If you were unlucky enough to kill someone in a car accident would you consider yourself a murderer?
If you stabbed someone to death you would have to?
“ Missing the Road Accident point” Hardly relevant You saying it’s ok if it’s only a road accident , as opposed to purposely stabbing someone ? What if that happened ? Still ok to escape punishment?
I think you know the two are radically different.
Where does the escaping come into this story?
I would expect to be prosecuted ( punished ) in both instances
If i wasn’t , I would consider myself to have escaped prosecution (punishment)
Maybe just one more then. If it was a lorry coming over the brow and had a head on which caused the death of the American lady and her kids, it would read in the media as a tragic accident. There can’t be many drivers in this country that haven’t been distracted at some point in their driving years, very few that haven’t broken the speed limit,been lucky with a breath test,been unlucky with a breath test, numerous other possible incidents. For example,going to work with a mate one icy morning we hit black ice,this was also on a brow, which was over a motorway.My mates driving skills meant he saved his Capri. We could then see ahead of us a car across the verge and one more in a ditch. One of the other drivers was trying to warn other drivers of the conditions on the brow, but got hit by a fairly oldish ladies car who didn’t quite have the skills to save a big slide. The guy that got hit didn’t make it. Accidents happen. All the time this American lady drove up the wrong side,she thought she was fine. If there was more traffic on the road, it most likely wouldn’t have ended up in a tragic accident, which is obvious. If this case went to court, and I was on the Jury,I’d class this as a tragic accident,and set her free. Which leaves compensation....
Please wait for Accident Investigation team to conclude what happened at the Accident site, they are pretty good at working out who is to blame be it one or both. Grieving for loved one's makes you do strange things don't be too hard on his Parents. From sorrow comes anger and the need to blame, even retribution, time is the healer. Both parties have to live with the consequences, Bikes & Cars can be replaced People can't.
Maybe just one more then. If it was a lorry coming over the brow and had a head on which caused the death of the American lady and her kids, it would read in the media as a tragic accident. There can’t be many drivers in this country that haven’t been distracted at some point in their driving years, very few that haven’t broken the speed limit,been lucky with a breath test,been unlucky with a breath test, numerous other possible incidents. For example,going to work with a mate one icy morning we hit black ice,this was also on a brow, which was over a motorway.My mates driving skills meant he saved his Capri. We could then see ahead of us a car across the verge and one more in a ditch. One of the other drivers was trying to warn other drivers of the conditions on the brow, but got hit by a fairly oldish ladies car who didn’t quite have the skills to save a big slide. The guy that got hit didn’t make it. Accidents happen. All the time this American lady drove up the wrong side,she thought she was fine. If there was more traffic on the road, it most likely wouldn’t have ended up in a tragic accident, which is obvious. If this case went to court, and I was on the Jury,I’d class this as a tragic accident,and set her free. Which leaves compensation....
As Ive said previously if a Spanish lorry was coming over the brow of the hill -on the other side of the road...like in Spain- and killed my distant cousin, he got 4 years in jail...
It might be a tragic accident except for the fact(fact?) she(allegedly) was driving on the wrong side of a road- if thats found to be true, it was an AVOIDABLE accident, therefore she must be culpable..imo
If she served time, who would that benefit? If she got four years, would the bereaved family feel that’s just desert for what they know was a complete accident? Sometimes you need to do what is morally correct,some sort of compensation is in order.
If she served time, who would that benefit? If she got four years, would the bereaved family feel that’s just desert for what they know was a complete accident? Sometimes you need to do what is morally correct,some sort of compensation is in order.
Why does it have to benefit anyone? We live in a mostly democratic Country, with laws which most of us have to abide to . If I did the same thing , would a good defence be “ Don’t jail me judge, it won’t benefit anyone “
For me, the alleged ‘crime’ and scale of crime isn’t the issue Neither is how it affects either party It’s about a level playing field.
“ Morally Correct” should not be in the same sentence as monetary gain.
Well, I’ve got to disagree. Morally doing the right things is some sort of compensation What else is there than a monetary solution. Fast forward to if she stood trial and got convicted. The bereaved family come outside the court feeling that was what they were after all the time? When they’ve said that all they wanted was some kind of an apology? Our justice system is often touted as best in the world,not true imo. But if it’s said enough times, you have believers.
If she served time, who would that benefit? If she got four years, would the bereaved family feel that’s just desert for what they know was a complete accident? Sometimes you need to do what is morally correct,some sort of compensation is in order.
Why does it have to benefit anyone? We live in a mostly democratic Country, with laws which most of us have to abide to . If I did the same thing , would a good defence be “ Don’t jail me judge, it won’t benefit anyone “
For me, the alleged ‘crime’ and scale of crime isn’t the issue Neither is how it affects either party It’s about a level playing field.
“ Morally Correct” should not be in the same sentence as monetary gain.
We agree on lots of things, Tom.
I know we are never going to agree on this one. nonetheless, I'll try and set out why i disagree.
1. I'm not saying it is "fair" that diplomatic immunity means there is no criminal prosecution here, merely that there would be GREATER injustices if it did not apply. Consensual relationship with same sex partner can mean death in various countries. A cheating wife can face severe penalties in many countries. Diplomats need to be able to do their jobs in times of war without fear of prosecution.
2. There never has been a level playing field. Take, for example, Careless Driving. When i used to deal with such matters, many years ago, it was 3-9 points or a ban, and a fine. But foreign drivers could only get a fine if not on a UK driving license. Same applies abroad
3. Always been ways round things. I recall a famous sportsman being done for Drink Driving, and being banned. He promptly moved to Jersey and carried on driving there.
4. Death by Dangerous Driving is as rare as rocking horse poo. The reason is simple-juries (unlike Magistrates on lesser charges) are extremely reluctant to find people guilty. Easy on social media-much harder when on a jury.
People have been judging everyone in this unfairly. The parents may be acting irrationally, but @goldon is spot on above. After 3 weeks, this person didn't "flee"-this was a diplomatic decision. The police didn't do anything because there was nothing they could do.
If she served time, who would that benefit? If she got four years, would the bereaved family feel that’s just desert for what they know was a complete accident? Sometimes you need to do what is morally correct,some sort of compensation is in order.
Why does it have to benefit anyone? We live in a mostly democratic Country, with laws which most of us have to abide to . If I did the same thing , would a good defence be “ Don’t jail me judge, it won’t benefit anyone “
For me, the alleged ‘crime’ and scale of crime isn’t the issue Neither is how it affects either party It’s about a level playing field.
“ Morally Correct” should not be in the same sentence as monetary gain.
We agree on lots of things, Tom.
I know we are never going to agree on this one. nonetheless, I'll try and set out why i disagree.
1. I'm not saying it is "fair" that diplomatic immunity means there is no criminal prosecution here, merely that there would be GREATER injustices if it did not apply. Consensual relationship with same sex partner can mean death in various countries. A cheating wife can face severe penalties in many countries. Diplomats need to be able to do their jobs in times of war without fear of prosecution.
2. There never has been a level playing field. Take, for example, Careless Driving. When i used to deal with such matters, many years ago, it was 3-9 points or a ban, and a fine. But foreign drivers could only get a fine if not on a UK driving license. Same applies abroad
3. Always been ways round things. I recall a famous sportsman being done for Drink Driving, and being banned. He promptly moved to Jersey and carried on driving there.
4. Death by Dangerous Driving is as rare as rocking horse poo. The reason is simple-juries (unlike Magistrates on lesser charges) are extremely reluctant to find people guilty. Easy on social media-much harder when on a jury.
People have been judging everyone in this unfairly. The parents may be acting irrationally, but @goldon is spot on above. After 3 weeks, this person didn't "flee"-this was a diplomatic decision. The police didn't do anything because there was nothing they could do.
Thanks for this Phil, lots of the above make sense re Diplomats,
I hope I’m not coming across as “ Judging” anyone, I’m not.
She admitted it was her fault ...... she could have so easily said, the motorbike was on her side and she swerved to avoid him putting her on the wrong side of the road seeing her he changed back causing the collision. She could also have said, he was doing Wheelies and going to fast. She didn't.! wait for official verdict.
She admitted it was her fault ...... she could have so easily said, the motorbike was on her side and she swerved to avoid him putting her on the wrong side of the road seeing her he changed back causing the collision. She could also have said, he was doing Wheelies and going to fast. She didn't.! wait for official verdict.
She would have been proved to be lying as it was on cctv..
She didn't know that at the time .......... but told the truth......... some wouldn't.
Being as she lived on the base, and the cctv is from there, it’s highly likely she did, but that’s an assumption... I can understand her angst, and would hate to be in her position , it must be awful, but to portray her as having the moral high ground here is pushing things a tad.
Comments
My view is Diplomats and their families shouldn’t escape prosecution if they cause the death of a person, guess I’m in the minority but I’m ok with that .
How could you change the law, without putting Diplomats, and their families at risk, all over the world?
I don't think that our police, and Foreign Office, emerge from this with much credibility.
Why didn't they act more quickly?
Do you think there is any chance of this woman ever returning to the UK?
Sometimes we just have to accept stuff that is not ideal.
Like we will probably have to accept that someone will get run over and killed by a pushbike, once every hundred years.
Hardly relevant
You saying it’s ok if it’s only a road accident , as opposed to purposely stabbing someone ?
What if that happened ? Still ok to escape punishment?
its still driving without due care and attention at best and vehicular manslaughter at worst...she was driving on the wrong side of the road and should face prsoecution
Where does the escaping come into this story?
If you stabbed someone to death you would have to?
If i wasn’t , I would consider myself to have escaped prosecution (punishment)
If it was a lorry coming over the brow and had a head on which caused the death of the American lady and her kids, it would read in the media as a tragic accident.
There can’t be many drivers in this country that haven’t been distracted at some point in their driving years, very few that haven’t broken the speed limit,been lucky with a breath test,been unlucky with a breath test, numerous other possible incidents.
For example,going to work with a mate one icy morning we hit black ice,this was also on a brow, which was over a motorway.My mates driving skills meant he saved his Capri.
We could then see ahead of us a car across the verge and one more in a ditch.
One of the other drivers was trying to warn other drivers of the conditions on the brow, but got hit by a fairly oldish ladies car who didn’t quite have the skills to save a big slide.
The guy that got hit didn’t make it. Accidents happen.
All the time this American lady drove up the wrong side,she thought she was fine.
If there was more traffic on the road, it most likely wouldn’t have ended up in a tragic accident, which is obvious.
If this case went to court, and I was on the Jury,I’d class this as a tragic accident,and set her free.
Which leaves compensation....
Grieving for loved one's makes you do strange things don't be too hard on his Parents.
From sorrow comes anger and the need to blame, even retribution, time is the healer.
Both parties have to live with the consequences, Bikes & Cars can be replaced People can't.
It might be a tragic accident except for the fact(fact?) she(allegedly) was driving on the wrong side of a road- if thats found to be true, it was an AVOIDABLE accident, therefore she must be culpable..imo
If she got four years, would the bereaved family feel that’s just desert for what they know was a complete accident?
Sometimes you need to do what is morally correct,some sort of compensation is in order.
We live in a mostly democratic Country, with laws which most of us have to abide to .
If I did the same thing , would a good defence be “ Don’t jail me judge, it won’t benefit anyone “
For me, the alleged ‘crime’ and scale of crime isn’t the issue
Neither is how it affects either party
It’s about a level playing field.
“ Morally Correct” should not be in the same sentence as monetary gain.
Morally doing the right things is some sort of compensation
What else is there than a monetary solution.
Fast forward to if she stood trial and got convicted.
The bereaved family come outside the court feeling that was what they were after all the time?
When they’ve said that all they wanted was some kind of an apology?
Our justice system is often touted as best in the world,not true imo. But if it’s said enough times, you have believers.
I know we are never going to agree on this one. nonetheless, I'll try and set out why i disagree.
1. I'm not saying it is "fair" that diplomatic immunity means there is no criminal prosecution here, merely that there would be GREATER injustices if it did not apply. Consensual relationship with same sex partner can mean death in various countries. A cheating wife can face severe penalties in many countries. Diplomats need to be able to do their jobs in times of war without fear of prosecution.
2. There never has been a level playing field. Take, for example, Careless Driving. When i used to deal with such matters, many years ago, it was 3-9 points or a ban, and a fine. But foreign drivers could only get a fine if not on a UK driving license. Same applies abroad
3. Always been ways round things. I recall a famous sportsman being done for Drink Driving, and being banned. He promptly moved to Jersey and carried on driving there.
4. Death by Dangerous Driving is as rare as rocking horse poo. The reason is simple-juries (unlike Magistrates on lesser charges) are extremely reluctant to find people guilty. Easy on social media-much harder when on a jury.
People have been judging everyone in this unfairly. The parents may be acting irrationally, but @goldon is spot on above. After 3 weeks, this person didn't "flee"-this was a diplomatic decision. The police didn't do anything because there was nothing they could do.
I hope I’m not coming across as “ Judging” anyone, I’m not.
Good post by Goldon
She isn’t a hero.
I can understand her angst, and would hate to be in her position , it must be awful, but to portray her as having the moral high ground here is pushing things a tad.