Multi way "all in" early game in BH.

JJBinks

Hi

With UKOPS coming up I'm grinding some MTTs in with cash and have a question if someone could guide me.

I have found myself in 3-4 way all in pre spots early game over 50bb deep with single bounty's a few times this week,

When trying to construct a calling range to go 4 ways this deep and with chip EV in mind can we be flexible with a calling range?
I know in some ICM situations we can take in to account "future game" which has an effect on ranges, can the same be said for pre ICM game (chip EV) or should we have a static calling ranges? (can we take wider risks with our range in this spot for any future game consideration?)

I'm not really looking for exact ranges in situations I think its important that I do that myself to understand the spot better.

I'm looking for some outlines in what we can do and what we cant do with our range and what to take in to account to build a better understanding of the situation.

if you can help that would be great.

Thank you.

oynutter

Hi jjbinks, I know it's not a main event in vegas, but a 4 way allin is probably less than 50/50 even with aces. If last to act, how many would fold in that spot if it had a 10k buy in with no rebuys? I think I would.

HENDRIK62

oynutter said:

Hi jjbinks, I know it's not a main event in vegas, but a 4 way allin is probably less than 50/50 even with aces. If last to act, how many would fold in that spot if it had a 10k buy in with no rebuys? I think I would.

Are you saying fold aces in that spot? if so just give up now..

oynutter

Thanks hendrix, might get a 2nd opinion if it's all the same to you

Allan23

Folding Aces pre is definitely the right move but da mn it takes discipline

oynutter

Aye, in a mad turbo for 50 quid to the winner, I'm calling just for the craic, but in a proper, valueable well structured tournament we would surely find better spots innit?

JJBinks

Thanks.

Essexphil

I will never ever fold AA in a standard MTT (as opposed to a qualifier/DYM).

People talk about preserving tournament lives like it's 2005.

Suppose you have a 60% chance of going out, and a 40% chance of quadrupling up (its normally way better than that). Suppose you play it 10 times, and get the expected 6 and 4. Suppose also you had 10 x 10,000 chips. Who would rather have that than 4 x 40,000 chips?

You could play 10 tournaments without ever getting a better opportunity than that. Risking 100,000 to get 160,000? Yes, please.

And I HAVE done it in a Main Event in Vegas

oynutter

But if you stay in the tournament, you might get 10 chances to double up with over 90% odds. Why flip in the early stages? Its not bingo?

waller02

AA isn't even a 90% against 72o HU (approx 87%) so you are never going to have 10 chances to double up with over 90% odds. It's not a flip when you are risking your stack to quadruple up. With 3 all ins in front of you, you could be up against AK, KK, QQ, dream spot for AA.

The only time I might fold is if I don't make it back to my laptop in time after running round my living room cheering. I get what you're saying about a situation where you had won a seat to the main event, flown out to Vegas etc. but in a run of the mill online MTT it's an easy call imo.

oynutter

I was saying if you stay in the tournament, then you can find spots where you have 90% odds, or 100% to double up. It is flip 4 way with any hands against you.

waller02

But if its AA V AK V QQ V JJ you are a 56% favourite to QUADRUPLE up. That is a far better spot than getting to the mid stages and getting it in with AK v TT for a double up for example.

oynutter

but 46% to exit the tournament with nothing -- thats bingo really innit?

waller02

If you don't fancy a 56% chance of quadrupling your stack then that's your choice I guess, we all play differently

I guess you fold AK to a single shove in mid stages for just a double up then, as you might have a 50% chance of going out? Can't play bingo afterall.

oynutter

we usually have much better odds in that scenario, and have our opponent covered

waller02

We will have to agree to disagree. Floppa whoppa

oynutter

lol looks like it, last time it happened, I did call, but it was only 5 quid tournie--- a 55 quid tournie, I'm folding.

MattBates

oynutter said:

But if you stay in the tournament, you might get 10 chances to double up with over 90% odds. Why flip in the early stages? Its not bingo?

Would love to find such a tournament. No idea if you are trolling suggesting you will get DU spots with over 90%.

If you are folding aces in such a spot then its best to not reg in the first place.

oynutter

I'm talking about spots where you double up with 90% odds, eg, aa vs aq when the flop comes 52q and the turn comes3 ect, many such spots.

I'm not the only player that finds a fold 4way in that spot surely? eg allan23 above

MattBates

oynutter said:

I'm talking about spots where you double up with 90% odds, eg, aa vs aq when the flop comes 52q and the turn comes3 ect, many such spots.

I'm not the only player that finds a fold 4way in that spot surely? eg allan23 above

How often do you absolutely cooler someone to get such a spot?

oynutter

happens a lot at smaller stakes Matt, especially 2.20 deep stacks