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Jac35

This should really be a routine spot but it’s the kind of situation in mtts that’s giving me headaches right now

I don’t have the hand history but i can used basic close numbers that make it easy

I don’t think the villain is very good but he’s certainly not terrible
He’s been doing a mixture of limping and 3xing and any 3bet he has had made has been a click.

I know all situations are player specific but what would be your default here?

£22bh
20 left and 16 paid

I’m 8/20 playing 31k
He’s 3/20 playing 69k



I open to 2k at 500/1k from the cut off with 77

He clicks to 4k from the button and it folds back round to me

I don’t like any of my options


What would you do?

bbMike

A click back would be 3k from btn, but..

How have they played post flop in 3 bet pots? High c-bet rate? What sort of bet sizing?

Regardless of that I guess 77 isn’t going to stand up to much pressure down the streets, so for me flatting is out - they’ve got all the chips and can play very aggressively with your bounty and bubble pressure in play.

There’s an option to 4-bet to about 11k but it’s a pure bluff with no blockers so I don’t really like that.

Given their stack I’d assume a shove will get called a high % with majority of their holdings you flip to.

May be some other factors that improve for you but seems like a bit of a punt shoving here. Think a fold looks ok.

waller02

I think I shove. The 3b sizing might be a concern if it wasn't his standard play and I think there will be hands in his 3b on the button range that will fold to a shove (unless he had been tight?), plenty of flips and unlucky if you run into an overpair.

bbMike

Have a go at assigning a 3bet range to them Paul then remove any you don’t think would call a shove. I think it comes down to whether you want to go the high variance route for a big stack in the closing stages and worry less about the bubble. The other thing I guess is that if they have a big chip advantage this close to the bubble they can completely run over the table. Can you wait for more info and take a later spot?

waller02

It is a much easier spot with 20bb . With 30bb it becomes a bit more awkward and depends on how you view the opponent. Against any good reg I think shoving is ok.

Folding seems really nitty but I could be wrong. I'd go Shove>Call>Fold, but I guess there is an argument for all three options?

Essexphil

Interesting question.

For me, it is 1.Call; 2. Shove; 3.Fold

bbMike

Interesting to see different views.

With a call, what’s the plan OOP for boards like K84? Kind of need to know how aggressive/sticky oppo is going to be. I’d also factor how many streets we can call down before our stack becomes lower than others at the table, want to maintain ability to take bounties. Check folding lots of boards with 2 broadways? Presume we’re not mining from this stack when calling.

For me shove needs to assume a good % of folds - may have a view on how bounty hungry this player is to inform?

Might have it all wrong though

bbMike

I’m on Fold>Shove>>Call it’s close between Fold and Shove depending how gambley I was feeling and any other info we have. Much easier shove with TT as we start to dominate more of his speculative 3bet range.

MattBates

Need to know what they are like post flop to answer properly, we are out of position but depending on how they play post can change our action pre.

Jac35

We fully expect opponent to cbet around 2/3rds pot if we take the call route and check on flop

LARSON7

Call unless he's min 3 betting a lot, then jam.

Jac35

LARSON7 said:

Call unless he's min 3 betting a lot, then jam. <

Let’s say we call
What’s the plan on a flop with any broadway cards on when he cbets?

bbMike

The answer isn’t the interesting thing, it’s the reasoning. Without the reasoning it’s just opinion and not very helpful if someone is posting hoping to learn. If you disagree with the reasoning you can arrive at a different answer, and that’s fine. As Matt said more info is required on the spot, but we can answer with branches where info isn’t known. I gave some reasons why I didn’t like a call, and assumed a high cbet frequency large bet size and likely to put us to a river decision. Be good to hear what is underpinning the preferred call line from others. Expecting cheap showdown from this player type? Plan to donk lead low boards?

Is it a min 3 bet Paul or was it 1k, 2k, 4k?

Essexphil

bbMike said:

The answer isn’t the interesting thing, it’s the reasoning. Without the reasoning it’s just opinion and not very helpful if someone is posting hoping to learn. If you disagree with the reasoning you can arrive at a different answer, and that’s fine. As Matt said more info is required on the spot, but we can answer with branches where info isn’t known. I gave some reasons why I didn’t like a call, and assumed a high cbet frequency large bet size and likely to put us to a river decision. Be good to hear what is underpinning the preferred call line from others. Expecting cheap showdown from this player type? Plan to donk lead low boards?

Is it a min 3 bet Paul or was it 1k, 2k, 4k?

Call is definitely better than fold.
You need to either lose 2k, or bet another 2k into a 6.5k pot, with another 27k behind.
Just the odds of getting a 7 on the flop make that worthwhile.
I wouldn't want to be in a position to have to make a river decision-I am likely to be folding or jamming, depending on the flop texture. Mixture of fold/donk lead/check-raise. Great? No. But better than folding.

bbMike

Interesting thanks Phil

FeelGroggy

Folding would be a big mistake. If we call it'll be 2000 chips for a pot of 9500 playing 3x pot postflop. I'd guess we need around 22/23% equity vs his range to profitably continue. We have almost 20% equity vs AA. We should feel even better when we consider there are only 6 combinations of pocket aces, but there are 16 combinations of Ace King. If he's 3betting a range like 99+ (36 combos) AJ+ KQ (64 combos) he is actually going to be very weighted to high card hands, which is obviously very good for us as it increases our equity vs his range. If that was the case I'd guess we would have 40-42% equity. Even against tens+ (30 combos) AQ+ (32 combos) I'd guess we have around 35% equity. Remember we only need 22/23% equity vs his range to continue profitably. Even if we knew he exclusively had KK/AA it would be an appetising spot to set mine, as we stack him almost always when we hit our 7. Even though we can't truly know what his 3bet range looks like, it is important to think about what you suspect it looks like when navigating postflop.

Villain is clearly picking a very sub-optimal bet sizing. The way to punish him is to continue with a wider range because of our enhanced pot odds. Sure post-flop may not always be the most comfortable experience, but if you opt to avoid navigating these spots your not only losing ev but also limiting your improvement as a player. The more experience you get in these type of spots the better you will play them. If we think villain is 3betting a normal 3betting range but just to a funky sizing, there's an argument to be made that our pot odds are too good to fold a single hand that we've opened from the cut off.

When we see a flop, we need to continue vs a bet on favourable boards for us. This is where it is important to bear in mind the assumptions we've made of his 3betting range. Whenever we don't hit out set, boards that don't contain Aces Kings or Queens are what we are hoping for. Flops like T94 and 982 are going to be relatively good for us given our assumptions of his 3betting range. If the flop comes ace high we can just fold. Whether or not to continue on some flops will depend on these assumptions. Most the time we'll have to fold to the second barrel when we don't hit our set, but you have to fold/ sometimes get bluffed in poker sometimes.

If we thought villain was 3betting a very nutted range we would want to prioritise continuing with hands that perform best against it, so pocket pairs, 78s type hands and suited aces and ditch reverse implied odds hands like KTo A9o.

jordz16

From what you have said calling seems the best play,
id continue on any board which we see as being good for us, and then fold on boards which are average or worse, it seems hes likely to be a poor player so you can probably wait for a better spot to try and double up from him,

SuperAyr25

i think easy call and see what happens on the flop dont want to lose it all with 7s 4 off the money but as you say none of the options feels great i dont really understand his min raise in the first place bit of a funny one.

HAYSIE

I found some of the answers interesting, and should probably pay more attention to this part of the forum.
Although some of the answers are over my head.
I dont consider myself qualified to answer poker questions, but I do have a couple of questions myself.
Do clear intentions beforehand make the hand easier to play?
Should you know your intentions before you bet?
By this I mean should you know whether you intend to call, shove, or fold to a reraise, before betting in the first place?
Do the stack sizes of the bottom four players affect your decision?
If your main objective was to cash, and planned to fold to a reraise, is there a case for just folding the hand in the first place?
If your intention is to nick the blinds, does that make a bigger initial raise preferable?
Does a bigger initial raise make a reraise less likely?
Is a bigger initial raise a better signal of your intentions?
Does a reraise to an initial bet of say 4 or 5 bigs, make the decision to call the reraise or not much easier?
Does the size of the reraise signal the strength of your opponents hand?
Is he really strong and doesn't want to lose his customer?
Does most of the difficulty in playing this hand stem from the initial min raise?

misterpj

Dear HAYSIE

Don't think

Any ' interaction,ever' save for,( bit of a hands on,geographical report,recentley)

Respect, from this end,too yourself.

Exasapated,,by,the BigBossMan,writing recently,words,too the effect;

After Golden Ticket ,and your Big Main Bink.
( Congrats,on both)
Enjoyed reading,your aggro raises,
drove potential .M.P. Aggro,mad 😊

HAYSIE,..ploughs own furrow,stubborn cantankerous,lone wolf;

Supreme,Estupendo,...p.j. stood,and " clapped" for HAYSIE,

Bold,from," the boy P.J." ..too almost,certain,derision;but,..
always,know,your next play,irrespective of what ' this play about to be '
Always,Always,the next step ahead.🤗 Best wishes

Jac35

misterpj said:

Dear HAYSIE

Don't think

Any ' interaction,ever' save for,( bit of a hands on,geographical report,recentley)

Respect, from this end,too yourself.

Exasapated,,by,the BigBossMan,writing recently,words,too the effect;

After Golden Ticket ,and your Big Main Bink.
( Congrats,on both)
Enjoyed reading,your aggro raises,
drove potential .M.P. Aggro,mad 😊

HAYSIE,..ploughs own furrow,stubborn cantankerous,lone wolf;

Supreme,Estupendo,...p.j. stood,and " clapped" for HAYSIE,

Bold,from," the boy P.J." ..too almost,certain,derision;but,..
always,know,your next play,irrespective of what ' this play about to be '
Always,Always,the next step ahead.🤗 Best wishes

Please stay off my threads