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Tragic.

HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
Tragic Vietnamese migrant ‘was kicked out of Britain' before dying in Essex lorry




A Vietnamese woman believed to have been among the 39 migrants who died in the back of a lorry is said to have reached Britain days earlier from France but was deported.
Pham Thi Tra My ’s brother has claimed the 26-year-old was picked up by police after she arrived.
He said in an interview: “She was arrested a few days ago and they returned her to France. Now we heard she might have died.”

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tragic-vietnamese-migrant-was-kicked-out-of-britain-before-dying-in-essex-lorry/ar-AAJrFeH?ocid=spartanntp
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Comments

  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 171,071

    That's just awful, assuming it's true

    I understand there have to be Rules, but folks are just trying to make a better life, & the cost to us is nil, or virtually nil, these are hard-working people.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    Tikay10 said:


    That's just awful, assuming it's true

    I understand there have to be Rules, but folks are just trying to make a better life, & the cost to us is nil, or virtually nil, these are hard-working people.

    Whilst I appreciate we cant just open the floodgates, and have no controls, many people seem to have such a selfish view that supports an opinion that allowing any immigration at all results in a personal loss to them
    An immigration policy that allowed us to be a little more generous would surely gain support from decent people.

    Germany is suffering a backlash from being particularly generous to Syrian refugees in 2015.


    Why is the migrant issue so thorny?
    In 2015, Chancellor Merkel decided to let in a record 890,000 asylum seekers. Syrians fleeing the civil war comprised the biggest group - a 403% rise on Syrian arrivals the previous year, the German migration office reported.
    She and her allies were punished by voters at last year's general election, when the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) entered parliament for the first time, winning 12.6% of the vote and more than 90 seats.
    Chemnitz is in Saxony, a region where AfD and Pegida are particularly strong.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45324804
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 171,071
    HAYSIE said:

    Tikay10 said:


    That's just awful, assuming it's true

    I understand there have to be Rules, but folks are just trying to make a better life, & the cost to us is nil, or virtually nil, these are hard-working people.

    Whilst I appreciate we cant just open the floodgates, and have no controls, many people seem to have such a selfish view that supports an opinion that allowing any immigration at all results in a personal loss to them
    An immigration policy that allowed us to be a little more generous would surely gain support from decent people.


    Germany is suffering a backlash from being particularly generous to Syrian refugees in 2015.


    Why is the migrant issue so thorny?
    In 2015, Chancellor Merkel decided to let in a record 890,000 asylum seekers. Syrians fleeing the civil war comprised the biggest group - a 403% rise on Syrian arrivals the previous year, the German migration office reported.
    She and her allies were punished by voters at last year's general election, when the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) entered parliament for the first time, winning 12.6% of the vote and more than 90 seats.
    Chemnitz is in Saxony, a region where AfD and Pegida are particularly strong.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45324804


    Absolutely this. (The bolded part).

    The lottery of life had us born in a wealthy country with a decent social services record and the NHS. It's especially mean to deny those less fortunate the chance to share it, particularly as the cost to us as individuals is almost nil, & in fact we are often better off because of their presence.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    Tikay10 said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Tikay10 said:


    That's just awful, assuming it's true

    I understand there have to be Rules, but folks are just trying to make a better life, & the cost to us is nil, or virtually nil, these are hard-working people.

    Whilst I appreciate we cant just open the floodgates, and have no controls, many people seem to have such a selfish view that supports an opinion that allowing any immigration at all results in a personal loss to them
    An immigration policy that allowed us to be a little more generous would surely gain support from decent people.


    Germany is suffering a backlash from being particularly generous to Syrian refugees in 2015.


    Why is the migrant issue so thorny?
    In 2015, Chancellor Merkel decided to let in a record 890,000 asylum seekers. Syrians fleeing the civil war comprised the biggest group - a 403% rise on Syrian arrivals the previous year, the German migration office reported.
    She and her allies were punished by voters at last year's general election, when the anti-immigrant Alternative for Germany (AfD) entered parliament for the first time, winning 12.6% of the vote and more than 90 seats.
    Chemnitz is in Saxony, a region where AfD and Pegida are particularly strong.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45324804


    Absolutely this. (The bolded part).

    The lottery of life had us born in a wealthy country with a decent social services record and the NHS. It's especially mean to deny those less fortunate the chance to share it, particularly as the cost to us as individuals is almost nil, & in fact we are often better off because of their presence.


    People can only resent them through ignorance.





    EU migrants pay £20bn more in taxes than they receive

    https://www.ft.com/content/c49043a8-6447-11e4-b219-00144feabdc0





    EU migrant workers contribute £2,300 more per year to UK than average British citizen, study reveals
    'If the UK’s new relationship with Europe involves reduced migration, this analysis suggests the tax burden on others will have to rise'


    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-workers-uk-tax-treasury-brexit-migrants-british-citizens-a8542506.html
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    I think there has to be a cap on immigrant workers.
    There would be millions of people around the world that would wish to come to the U.K.
    IMO,one way would be to have a guarantor, have them tagged, and report to somewhere once a month or quarter with evidence of earnings and accommodation.
    Harsh, but it would be for their own safety and wellbeing.
    To obviously make sure they’re not getting exploited or ending up in slavery or seedy businesses.
    A proper process.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    chilling said:

    I think there has to be a cap on immigrant workers.
    There would be millions of people around the world that would wish to come to the U.K.
    IMO,one way would be to have a guarantor, have them tagged, and report to somewhere once a month or quarter with evidence of earnings and accommodation.
    Harsh, but it would be for their own safety and wellbeing.
    To obviously make sure they’re not getting exploited or ending up in slavery or seedy businesses.
    A proper process.

    That would mean ignoring the evidence of both the above articles, which are based on facts, rather than rumours, opinions, lies, and suppositions.
    An EU immigrant contributes more to our economy than the average British citizen.
    That means we are better off with more.
    EU rules allow us to send them back in three months if they are not working.
    The fact that we have never done this is our fault.
    Some EU members do this.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    chilling said:

    I think there has to be a cap on immigrant workers.
    There would be millions of people around the world that would wish to come to the U.K.
    IMO,one way would be to have a guarantor, have them tagged, and report to somewhere once a month or quarter with evidence of earnings and accommodation.
    Harsh, but it would be for their own safety and wellbeing.
    To obviously make sure they’re not getting exploited or ending up in slavery or seedy businesses.
    A proper process.

    Can EU migrants easily claim benefits when they arrive in another EU country?
    No - there are conditions, depending on an individual's circumstances.
    They can stay for three months, but to stay longer after that they have to be: in work; or actively seeking work with a genuine chance of being hired; or be able to show they have enough money not to be a burden on public services. Apart from that, evidence of benefit abuse or fraud is grounds to exclude or expel a person.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25134521
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    edited November 2019
    You can only send them back if you can find them.
    I’m not talking benefits.
    It would be more sensible and plausible to have a job lined up.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    chilling said:

    You can only send them back if you can find them.
    I’m not talking benefits.

    How do you claim benefits, or work, and not be found.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    edited November 2019
    As I said, I wasn’t referring to benefits.
    They have a guarantor for work.
    I would think most of the illegals in this country steer well clear of our benefit system.
    If things go pear shaped for them, I’d doubt you’d find them in the benefits office.
    That’s why they should be tagged.
    Which would show they’re complying with the agreement of entry.
    A small price to pay.
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 171,071
    chilling said:

    As I said, I wasn’t referring to benefits.
    They have a guarantor for work.
    I would think most of the illegals in this country steer well clear of our benefit system.
    If things go pear shaped for them, I’d doubt you’d find them in the benefits office.
    That’s why they should be tagged.
    Which would show they’re complying with the agreement of entry.
    A small price to pay.

    If they are not claiming benefits, what harm are they doing by being here?

  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    chilling said:

    As I said, I wasn’t referring to benefits.
    They have a guarantor for work.
    I would think most of the illegals in this country steer well clear of our benefit system.
    If things go pear shaped for them, I’d doubt you’d find them in the benefits office.
    That’s why they should be tagged.
    Which would show they’re complying with the agreement of entry.
    A small price to pay.

    Penalties for employing illegal workers
    You can be sent to jail for 5 years and pay an unlimited fine if you’re found guilty of employing someone who you knew or had ‘reasonable cause to believe’ did not have the right to work in the UK.
    This includes, for example, if you had any reason to believe that:
    they did not have leave (permission) to enter or remain in the UK
    their leave had expired
    they were not allowed to do certain types of work
    their papers were incorrect or false
    Check your employees have the right to work in the UK and make sure their documents are valid.
    Check your employees properly
    You can also be penalised if you employ someone who does not have the right to work and you did not do the correct checks, or you did not do them properly.
    If this happens, you might get a ‘referral notice’ to let you know your case is being considered and that you might have to pay a civil penalty (fine) of up to £20,000 for each illegal worker.
    You’ll be sent a ‘civil penalty notice’ if you’re found liable and you’ll have 28 days to respond.
    The notice will tell you how to pay, what to do next, and how to object to the decision.
    Your business’s details may be published by Immigration Enforcement as a warning to other businesses not to employ illegal workers.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    Tikay10 said:

    chilling said:

    As I said, I wasn’t referring to benefits.
    They have a guarantor for work.
    I would think most of the illegals in this country steer well clear of our benefit system.
    If things go pear shaped for them, I’d doubt you’d find them in the benefits office.
    That’s why they should be tagged.
    Which would show they’re complying with the agreement of entry.
    A small price to pay.

    If they are not claiming benefits, what harm are they doing by being here?

    Contributing more than the average Brit, and doing many of the jobs that the average Brit would rather claim benefits than do.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    I’m not saying they’re doing any harm here Tikay.
    I’m saying if there was a proper process,it might save their skin.
    It should put a stop to the trafficking.
    For the ones that avoid processing,deport them.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    Haysie,you’ve already stated there could be 1.5 million illegals in the U.K.
    Where do you think they are, and what do you think they are doing?
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    By the sounds of the above comments, it’s best to avoid having a proper process, and thumbs up to trafficking.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 3,774
    I thought we were debating immigrants wanting to come here to work.
    Asylum seekers are a different group altogether.
    Some have funds,some don’t.
    Those who don’t,would probably head straight for the benefits queue.
    And they’re entitled to them as the law stands.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    chilling said:

    I’m not saying they’re doing any harm here Tikay.
    I’m saying if there was a proper process,it might save their skin.
    It should put a stop to the trafficking.
    For the ones that avoid processing,deport them.

    You will never stop people wanting to come here, or trafficking.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    chilling said:

    Haysie,you’ve already stated there could be 1.5 million illegals in the U.K.
    Where do you think they are, and what do you think they are doing?

    We don't have a clue.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 36,452
    chilling said:

    By the sounds of the above comments, it’s best to avoid having a proper process, and thumbs up to trafficking.

    Definitely not.
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