Angle shooting story

MattBates

Thoughts on this peeps?
Anyone seen anything similar in a live game?
I follow this guy on twitter and he does some good analysis of live hands.

https://twitter.com/BartHanson/status/1256609804518334471?s=20

kapowblamz

He lied about his hand causing other guy to muck? Is that what happened? It's probably very clear but I just woke up.

MattBates

kapowblamz said:

He lied about his hand causing other guy to muck? Is that what happened? It's probably very clear but I just woke up.

Yes, he lied and then showed his actual hand.

Shelley7

Had something similar, was mid to late stages of an MTT, I have JT. Jack is the highest card on the board until the river when a King hits. Player bets out and I call. They say " I hit the King" and I muck. They then say, haha I was lying, I didn't hit it and show A high.

I'm pretty **** off and most of the table agree and give the player a hard time. Dealer calls over the floor who side with that player.

We then have a break and when we get back it is just me and them at the table for the first hand. The player then says they will raise me to 10k blind (the amount I lost) and will fold to my re-raise to just give me the chips back. We do this and when I re-raise, they go all in and I have to fold, losing another 20k. The floor again sided with this player, even though the dealer was hugely on my side.

Quite a few players kick off at this point about the players acts, but nothing happens. Was pretty tilting but I did manage to FT just through pure anger I think.

Enut

Do the guys that do this sort of thing still have all their teeth?

Essexphil

Shelley7 said:

Had something similar, was mid to late stages of an MTT, I have JT. Jack is the highest card on the board until the river when a King hits. Player bets out and I call. They say " I hit the King" and I muck. They then say, haha I was lying, I didn't hit it and show A high.

I'm pretty **** off and most of the table agree and give the player a hard time. Dealer calls over the floor who side with that player.

We then have a break and when we get back it is just me and them at the table for the first hand. The player then says they will raise me to 10k blind (the amount I lost) and will fold to my re-raise to just give me the chips back. We do this and when I re-raise, they go all in and I have to fold, losing another 20k. The floor again sided with this player, even though the dealer was hugely on my side.

Quite a few players kick off at this point about the players acts, but nothing happens. Was pretty tilting but I did manage to FT just through pure anger I think.

The first one is awful. I can understand why the floor feels it has to side with the other player. But I would expect him to give that player a very clear warning in relation to his behaviour and future disqualification.

The second? I'm never going in that casino again. Hopefully, by choice. Probably because still banned. But quite possibly because I'm still in prison...

Shelley7

I did nearly lose my head, when he and his mate told me it was my fault for being naive. It did teach me a lesson though to never release my cards until they show.

MattBates

Shelley7 said:

Had something similar, was mid to late stages of an MTT, I have JT. Jack is the highest card on the board until the river when a King hits. Player bets out and I call. They say " I hit the King" and I muck. They then say, haha I was lying, I didn't hit it and show A high.

I'm pretty **** off and most of the table agree and give the player a hard time. Dealer calls over the floor who side with that player.

We then have a break and when we get back it is just me and them at the table for the first hand. The player then says they will raise me to 10k blind (the amount I lost) and will fold to my re-raise to just give me the chips back. We do this and when I re-raise, they go all in and I have to fold, losing another 20k. The floor again sided with this player, even though the dealer was hugely on my side.

Quite a few players kick off at this point about the players acts, but nothing happens. Was pretty tilting but I did manage to FT just through pure anger I think.

Were your cards not retrievable from the muck when they showed their ace high?

I would always make a player table their cards, stops things like this happening and also gives you the information of what they had.

Essexphil

Shelley7 said:

I did nearly lose my head, when he and his mate told me it was my fault for being naive. It did teach me a lesson though to never release my cards until they show.

People do lie in this way. I know a regular at my nearest casino who regularly does this. The weird bit is showing his cards afterwards. Not only because that is likely to cause a fight, but also so he can do it again.

On the 2nd occasion, the floor manager should be there. And making it very clear that a re-raise will result in severe consequences. For the safety of all concerned.

I'm too old to be kicking off. In any event, I've a pretty long fuse. That's why i would let the first one go. But not the second.

kapowblamz

The floor ruled correctly but that second one in Shelley's post is waaaay bad. I would tell villain that it's not his fault and you blame his parents.

goldnballz

Shelley7 said:

Had something similar, was mid to late stages of an MTT, I have JT. Jack is the highest card on the board until the river when a King hits. Player bets out and I call. They say " I hit the King" and I muck. They then say, haha I was lying, I didn't hit it and show A high.

I'm pretty **** off and most of the table agree and give the player a hard time. Dealer calls over the floor who side with that player.

We then have a break and when we get back it is just me and them at the table for the first hand. The player then says they will raise me to 10k blind (the amount I lost) and will fold to my re-raise to just give me the chips back. We do this and when I re-raise, they go all in and I have to fold, losing another 20k. The floor again sided with this player, even though the dealer was hugely on my side.

Quite a few players kick off at this point about the players acts, but nothing happens. Was pretty tilting but I did manage to FT just through pure anger I think.

Wow!! That is absolutely disgusting!

I'm with Essexphil on this one.... I'd most probably be banned from the casino if this had happened to me

TheEdge949

Shelley7 said:

Had something similar, was mid to late stages of an MTT, I have JT. Jack is the highest card on the board until the river when a King hits. Player bets out and I call. They say " I hit the King" and I muck. They then say, haha I was lying, I didn't hit it and show A high.

I'm pretty **** off and most of the table agree and give the player a hard time. Dealer calls over the floor who side with that player.

We then have a break and when we get back it is just me and them at the table for the first hand. The player then says they will raise me to 10k blind (the amount I lost) and will fold to my re-raise to just give me the chips back. We do this and when I re-raise, they go all in and I have to fold, losing another 20k. The floor again sided with this player, even though the dealer was hugely on my side.

Quite a few players kick off at this point about the players acts, but nothing happens. Was pretty tilting but I did manage to FT just through pure anger I think.

Absolutely disgusting.
I really applaud your self control in not causing him to experience a car park - front teeth interface scenario.

Unfortunately I experienced angle shooting in a comp at my local Genting about a few years ago and told the guy exactly what I was going to do to him. The floor was called, I got a 2 orbit penalty and was threatened with disqualification.

The funny thing was whilst I was sitting away he was giving it the big un about how he wasn't scared blah blah blah. Then somebody at the table mentioned what I did for a living and apparently he went very quiet. When I got back to playing I just kept giving him my poker stare whilst being really pleasant and civil. For some reason he found it difficult to concentrate on his game.

The floor always seems to side with the angle shooter which is very disappointing, especially when they insist he broke no rules.

Shelley7

It sounds weird, but I was more **** off about the first one, the second one I feel like it was my fault a little to just trust a stranger to keep his word. When he busted there was applause and it did feel like everyone was on my side, which definitely helped.

I was only 20 / 21 at the time and pretty new to casinos so did not fully understand the shittyness of it at the time, which probably helped. I was fuming though but I tried to use it to stay in the tournament as just felt like busting or getting banned for fighting would anger me far more and just cause a snowball effect.

Cammykaze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr2agX80ZyE

Similar to this?

In German and the action starts about the 1 min mark.

TheEdge949

Only one player comes out of that with credit and it isn't Tobias. Also got to question the dealer here, he appears to grab Rolands cards and muck them.

If that happened at a local level somebody would be having a slip in the gents or on the car park.

It both sends out the wrong message to new players and reinforces the prejudices of the "all poker players are slimey scumballs" brigade.

Tsaaaar

Shelley7 said:

Had something similar, was mid to late stages of an MTT, I have JT. Jack is the highest card on the board until the river when a King hits. Player bets out and I call. They say " I hit the King" and I muck. They then say, haha I was lying, I didn't hit it and show A high.

I'm pretty **** off and most of the table agree and give the player a hard time. Dealer calls over the floor who side with that player.

We then have a break and when we get back it is just me and them at the table for the first hand. The player then says they will raise me to 10k blind (the amount I lost) and will fold to my re-raise to just give me the chips back. We do this and when I re-raise, they go all in and I have to fold, losing another 20k. The floor again sided with this player, even though the dealer was hugely on my side.

Quite a few players kick off at this point about the players acts, but nothing happens. Was pretty tilting but I did manage to FT just through pure anger I think.

I'm absolutely raging just reading that ffs!

Enut

Cammykaze said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr2agX80ZyE

Similar to this?

In German and the action starts about the 1 min mark.

Hang on how can he lose that hand? He showed the King which was enough to win the hand.

tomgoodun

Enut said:

Cammykaze said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr2agX80ZyE

Similar to this?

In German and the action starts about the 1 min mark.

Hang on how can he lose that hand? He showed the King which was enough to win the hand.

That’s what I thought.
Maybe you have to show both cards pre muck?
Weird

Tikay10

tomgoodun said:

Enut said:

Cammykaze said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr2agX80ZyE

Similar to this?

In German and the action starts about the 1 min mark.

Hang on how can he lose that hand? He showed the King which was enough to win the hand.

That’s what I thought.
Maybe you have to show both cards pre muck?
Weird

The generally accepted TDA rule is that you must show both cards to win a pot. (Or "all cards" in the case of PLO etc).

ShaunyT

What I can't understand (i'm guessing it's an ego thing about being caught bluffing), if a player is messing about, holding cards, pretending to muck, why not just table your cards and remove all doubt?
I can't understand how an experienced player can be fooled like this.

mumsie

The dealer turning the cards over messes with my head. I cant work out who won the pot eventually with all the shenanigans.