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Cashless society

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  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    VespaPX said:

    @ Haysie
    "You need to open your eyes instead of blindly spouting bull sh1t."
    Pot & kettle comes to mind.
    In my OP i was asking the question "good or bad?"

    Yes, and you followed this up with a completely one sided argument, much of which was incorrect.
    Did you list one advantage of being cashless?
  • PKRParPKRPar Member Posts: 1,404
    Unheard off, but i actually agree with haysie here. Cant remember the last time i used cash.
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 6,081
    A demise of paper money would enable governments to exercise a full control over the banking system, including tracking and recording all transactions.
    If this might be useful in the fight against criminality, it will also impinge on consumer rights to privacy.
    Furthermore, no one would be immune in case of a system failure, and a stolen or broken smartphone would immediately leave the victim without a payment tool.
    Last but not least, the millions of unbanked would be left behind without any resource. According to specialists, a shift to cashless might even create a second-class citizenry and thus deepen the gap between rich and poor.
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 6,081
    How would "anonymous" Bitcoin type transactions fit into this?
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    HAYSIE said:

    VespaPX said:

    @ Haysie
    "You need to open your eyes instead of blindly spouting bull sh1t."
    Pot & kettle comes to mind.
    In my OP i was asking the question "good or bad?"

    Yes, and you followed this up with a completely one sided argument, much of which was incorrect.
    Did you list one advantage of being cashless?
    Heres a couple off the top of my head.
    All the millions of people that have paid cash deposits to thousands of companies, that have gone bankrupt before supplying the goods, but would have had their deposit refunded in full had they used a credit card.
    All the old people that have had their cash robbed from under the mattress.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    VespaPX said:

    A demise of paper money would enable governments to exercise a full control over the banking system, including tracking and recording all transactions.

    Data protection?


    If this might be useful in the fight against criminality, it will also impinge on consumer rights to privacy.

    How would drug dealers operate?


    Furthermore, no one would be immune in case of a system failure,

    Nobody would be immune from a system failure today

    and a stolen or broken smartphone would immediately leave the victim without a payment tool.

    Boll ocks, you would still have your card.
    How long would it take to replace a phone?



    Last but not least, the millions of unbanked would be left behind without any resource.

    ?


    According to specialists, a shift to cashless might even create a second-class citizenry and thus deepen the gap between rich and poor.

    So much bull sh1t. I can remember the same idiotic nonsense when employers stopped paying cash, and started paying direct into bank accounts.
    Some people couldn't open bank accounts, then along came the building society accounts that anyone can open.


  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    edited July 18
    VespaPX said:

    How would "anonymous" Bitcoin type transactions fit into this?

    Bitcoin is not cash.

    There was a fella from Newport that accidentally threw his hard drive away, and lost all his bitcoin, which would now apparently be worth $108 million.

    I bet he wishes it was in a bank account, and he could still get his hands on it.
  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 6,081
    edited July 18
    @HAYSIE
    No swearing please :-)

    Cons of a Cashless Society

    Privacy: Privacy will be a thing of the past in a cashless society. This is because the government will have a way to track each and every transaction belonging to every individual. Thus government will have the resources to snoop in and check what a person is buying or where they are travelling. People are skeptical that a cashless society might be a huge infringement on the privacy of people and may end up severely compromising their freedom.

    Deposit Insurance: Also, cashless societies will force people to deposit their money in banks. At the present moment, bank deposits are insured up to $100,000 per account. In case of a cashless society this limit will have to be raised since keeping money in the bank would no longer be a choice. The government would therefore have to take accountability for actions of private parties i.e. banks which would drastically increase the taxpayer’s liability.

    Negative Interest Rates: Many believe that cashless societies are just a prelude to the era of negative interest rates that await us. People are likely to pull money out of banks if negative interest rates were to come into effect. However, if the option of cash is eliminated, people would have no alternate asset to hold their money in. Therefore, cashless societies may possibly have ulterior motives too.

    Government Restraint: Lastly, government spending now is restrained by the threat that people will not contribute to taxes if they are unreasonable. In a cashless world, the government does not have to ask for money. Rather, it would simply take its share. Therefore, a cashless society would blow the lid off any sort of restraint in government spending. The resultant hole in the taxpayer’s pockets will be massive.

    https://www.managementstudyguide.com/living-in-a-cashless-society.htm
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    VespaPX said:

    @HAYSIE
    No swearing please :-)

    Cons of a Cashless Society

    Privacy: Privacy will be a thing of the past in a cashless society. This is because the government will have a way to track each and every transaction belonging to every individual. Thus government will have the resources to snoop in and check what a person is buying or where they are travelling. People are skeptical that a cashless society might be a huge infringement on the privacy of people and may end up severely compromising their freedom.

    Most normal people rarely use cash now.
    Why cant the Government do this now.
    If the Government wanted to do this, why do they have to wait until we are cashless?


    Deposit Insurance: Also, cashless societies will force people to deposit their money in banks. At the present moment, bank deposits are insured up to $100,000 per account. In case of a cashless society this limit will have to be raised since keeping money in the bank would no longer be a choice. The government would therefore have to take accountability for actions of private parties i.e. banks which would drastically increase the taxpayer’s liability.

    Nonsense.
    How many people do you know that have over 100k in the bank.
    Why wouldn't you just deposit 100k in any number of different banks.
    How many people do you know with multiples of 100k.
    It is ludicrous that your argument has gone from tucking the odd £20 cash away, and birthday card money, to protecting millionaires.


    Negative Interest Rates: Many believe that cashless societies are just a prelude to the era of negative interest rates that await us. People are likely to pull money out of banks if negative interest rates were to come into effect. However, if the option of cash is eliminated, people would have no alternate asset to hold their money in. Therefore, cashless societies may possibly have ulterior motives too.

    We are almost there anyway and we still have cash.
    I can remember 15.5% interest on mortgages.
    I know which I would prefer.

    I have to pay HMRC an extra £2 before the end of January, in respect of the £7 interest I received on an account that I have around £5k in. Whoopee.

    Government Restraint: Lastly, government spending now is restrained by the threat that people will not contribute to taxes if they are unreasonable. In a cashless world, the government does not have to ask for money. Rather, it would simply take its share. Therefore, a cashless society would blow the lid off any sort of restraint in government spending. The resultant hole in the taxpayer’s pockets will be massive.

    Really?
    The overwhelming majority currently get paid into their bank accounts, as do many pensioners.
    In fact the last company I worked for insisted on a bank account, and wouldn't take you on without one.
    There doesn't seem to be any restraint om Government spending at the moment, yet I haven't noticed them dipping into my bank account.
    I dont think we would need to go cashless for the Government to implement all of the above if they were so inclined.
    Although they would be a huge outcry, cashless or not.
    I just think it is a ridiculous argument.


    https://www.managementstudyguide.com/living-in-a-cashless-society.htm

  • VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 6,081
    I had spent an hour in the bank with my dad, as he had to transfer some money. I couldn't resist myself & asked...
    ''Dad, why don't we activate your internet banking?''
    ''Why would I do that?'' He asked...
    ''Well, then you wont have to spend an hour here for things like transfer.
    You can even do your shopping online. Everything will be so easy!''
    I was so excited about initiating him into the world of Net banking.
    He asked ''If I do that, I wont have to step out of the house?
    ''Yes, yes''! I said. I told him how even grocery can be delivered at door now and how amazon delivers everything!
    His answer left me tongue-tied.
    He said ''Since I entered this bank today, I have met four of my friends, I have chatted a while with the staff who know me very well by now.
    You know I am alone...this is the company that I need. I like to get ready and come to the bank. I have enough time, it is the physical touch that I crave.
    Two years back I got sick, The store owner from whom I buy fruits, came to see me and sat by my bedside and cried.
    When your Mom fell down few days back while on her morning walk. Our local grocer saw her and immediately got his car to rush her home as he knows where I live.
    Would I have that 'human' touch if everything became online?
    Why would I want everything delivered to me and force me to interact with just my computer?
    I like to know the person that I'm dealing with and not just the 'seller'. It creates bonds of Relationships.
    Does Amazon deliver all this as well?'''
    Technology isn't life..
    Spend time with people .. Not with devices.
    Writer: Unknown
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    VespaPX said:

    I had spent an hour in the bank with my dad, as he had to transfer some money. I couldn't resist myself & asked...
    ''Dad, why don't we activate your internet banking?''
    ''Why would I do that?'' He asked...
    ''Well, then you wont have to spend an hour here for things like transfer.
    You can even do your shopping online. Everything will be so easy!''
    I was so excited about initiating him into the world of Net banking.
    He asked ''If I do that, I wont have to step out of the house?
    ''Yes, yes''! I said. I told him how even grocery can be delivered at door now and how amazon delivers everything!
    His answer left me tongue-tied.
    He said ''Since I entered this bank today, I have met four of my friends, I have chatted a while with the staff who know me very well by now.
    You know I am alone...this is the company that I need. I like to get ready and come to the bank. I have enough time, it is the physical touch that I crave.
    Two years back I got sick, The store owner from whom I buy fruits, came to see me and sat by my bedside and cried.
    When your Mom fell down few days back while on her morning walk. Our local grocer saw her and immediately got his car to rush her home as he knows where I live.
    Would I have that 'human' touch if everything became online?
    Why would I want everything delivered to me and force me to interact with just my computer?
    I like to know the person that I'm dealing with and not just the 'seller'. It creates bonds of Relationships.
    Does Amazon deliver all this as well?'''
    Technology isn't life..
    Spend time with people .. Not with devices.
    Writer: Unknown

    I am unmoved.
    It is just silly to suggest that being cashless means everyone has to stay in, or just shop on the internet.
    For most people life wont change at all.
    They will shop in exactly the same way, but use a card instead of cash.
    You are really struggling to make a case.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 2,004
    A cashless society would have to include the whole of the worlds population.
    Bear in mind, some folks, kids too, are walking miles just to get water.
    Townships in SA, which are densely populated, have their electric cut off without warning.
    It’s highly likely that folks in other countries have the same problem, which to my eye, makes it as likely to happen as seeing me sailing down the Thames on a slice of toast.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    chilling said:

    A cashless society would have to include the whole of the worlds population.
    Bear in mind, some folks, kids too, are walking miles just to get water.
    Townships in SA, which are densely populated, have their electric cut off without warning.
    It’s highly likely that folks in other countries have the same problem, which to my eye, makes it as likely to happen as seeing me sailing down the Thames on a slice of toast.

    The Top 3 Cashless Countries
    A cashless society is defined as one that doesn’t use cash in monetary transactions. These societies favor alternative means of payment, such as credit cards, contactless payments, or cryptocurrencies.
    As of yet, there are no truly cashless societies. But countries around the world are embracing cashless payment systems. It’s hard to predict an exact date as to when this transition could happen, but some experts speculate that it could be as early as 2022.
    Listed below are the top three countries that are embracing cashless payments.
    1. Sweden
    Of all the companies moving closer to becoming cashless, most people agree that Sweden is the closest. 85% of the country has access to online banking and only 2% of the country’s transactions consist of cash.
    There are a number of reasons for this cashless trend. Sweden has access to a popular payment app called Swish, which more than 50% of the country uses. But the biggest catalyst by far is that most Swedish retailers don’t access cash payments.
    It’s not uncommon to see stores announcing that they don’t accept cash payments. In fact, in Sweden, only 20% of all in-store transactions are made in cash.
    2. China
    China also has a vast cashless market, which is mostly dominated by Tencent’s WeChat Pay or Alipay, which is owned by Alibaba. But unlike many other countries, China hasn’t embraced credit card payments. Instead, most Chinese consumers make payments by scanning QR codes on their phones.
    Most merchants request payment via QR codes and it’s not uncommon to see QR codes located all throughout China. And this trend is starting to spread to other countries that have a lot of Chinese travelers.
    3. United Kingdom
    In the U.K., credit cards, online payments, and contactless payments have largely replaced cash payments. Cash is no longer accepted on public transport in the U.K. and the number of available ATMs is dwindling.
    Additionally, the U.K. is currently leading the world in the adoption of contactless payments. Nearly half of all in-store transactions are contactless payments. Mastercard found that there has been a 97% increase in contactless payments across all of Europe.

    https://www.corecashless.com/the-worlds-top-3-cashless-countries/
  • kapowblamzkapowblamz Member Posts: 1,119
    chilling said:

    as likely to happen as seeing me sailing down the Thames on a slice of toast.

    Here's Phil Hellmuth



  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 2,004
    edited July 31
    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    A cashless society would have to include the whole of the worlds population.
    Bear in mind, some folks, kids too, are walking miles just to get water.
    Townships in SA, which are densely populated, have their electric cut off without warning.
    It’s highly likely that folks in other countries have the same problem, which to my eye, makes it as likely to happen as seeing me sailing down the Thames on a slice of toast.

    The Top 3 Cashless Countries
    A cashless society is defined as one that doesn’t use cash in monetary transactions. These societies favor alternative means of payment, such as credit cards, contactless payments, or cryptocurrencies.
    As of yet, there are no truly cashless societies. But countries around the world are embracing cashless payment systems. It’s hard to predict an exact date as to when this transition could happen, but some experts speculate that it could be as early as 2022.
    Listed below are the top three countries that are embracing cashless payments.
    1. Sweden
    Of all the companies moving closer to becoming cashless, most people agree that Sweden is the closest. 85% of the country has access to online banking and only 2% of the country’s transactions consist of cash.
    There are a number of reasons for this cashless trend. Sweden has access to a popular payment app called Swish, which more than 50% of the country uses. But the biggest catalyst by far is that most Swedish retailers don’t access cash payments.
    It’s not uncommon to see stores announcing that they don’t accept cash payments. In fact, in Sweden, only 20% of all in-store transactions are made in cash.
    2. China
    China also has a vast cashless market, which is mostly dominated by Tencent’s WeChat Pay or Alipay, which is owned by Alibaba. But unlike many other countries, China hasn’t embraced credit card payments. Instead, most Chinese consumers make payments by scanning QR codes on their phones.
    Most merchants request payment via QR codes and it’s not uncommon to see QR codes located all throughout China. And this trend is starting to spread to other countries that have a lot of Chinese travelers.
    3. United Kingdom
    In the U.K., credit cards, online payments, and contactless payments have largely replaced cash payments. Cash is no longer accepted on public transport in the U.K. and the number of available ATMs is dwindling.
    Additionally, the U.K. is currently leading the world in the adoption of contactless payments. Nearly half of all in-store transactions are contactless payments. Mastercard found that there has been a 97% increase in contactless payments across all of Europe.

    https://www.corecashless.com/the-worlds-top-3-cashless-countries/
    The whole world? About another 200 countries to add on.
  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 2,004

    chilling said:

    as likely to happen as seeing me sailing down the Thames on a slice of toast.

    Here's Phil Hellmuth



    That could make a rather good caption contest pic.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    chilling said:

    HAYSIE said:

    chilling said:

    A cashless society would have to include the whole of the worlds population.
    Bear in mind, some folks, kids too, are walking miles just to get water.
    Townships in SA, which are densely populated, have their electric cut off without warning.
    It’s highly likely that folks in other countries have the same problem, which to my eye, makes it as likely to happen as seeing me sailing down the Thames on a slice of toast.

    The Top 3 Cashless Countries
    A cashless society is defined as one that doesn’t use cash in monetary transactions. These societies favor alternative means of payment, such as credit cards, contactless payments, or cryptocurrencies.
    As of yet, there are no truly cashless societies. But countries around the world are embracing cashless payment systems. It’s hard to predict an exact date as to when this transition could happen, but some experts speculate that it could be as early as 2022.
    Listed below are the top three countries that are embracing cashless payments.
    1. Sweden
    Of all the companies moving closer to becoming cashless, most people agree that Sweden is the closest. 85% of the country has access to online banking and only 2% of the country’s transactions consist of cash.
    There are a number of reasons for this cashless trend. Sweden has access to a popular payment app called Swish, which more than 50% of the country uses. But the biggest catalyst by far is that most Swedish retailers don’t access cash payments.
    It’s not uncommon to see stores announcing that they don’t accept cash payments. In fact, in Sweden, only 20% of all in-store transactions are made in cash.
    2. China
    China also has a vast cashless market, which is mostly dominated by Tencent’s WeChat Pay or Alipay, which is owned by Alibaba. But unlike many other countries, China hasn’t embraced credit card payments. Instead, most Chinese consumers make payments by scanning QR codes on their phones.
    Most merchants request payment via QR codes and it’s not uncommon to see QR codes located all throughout China. And this trend is starting to spread to other countries that have a lot of Chinese travelers.
    3. United Kingdom
    In the U.K., credit cards, online payments, and contactless payments have largely replaced cash payments. Cash is no longer accepted on public transport in the U.K. and the number of available ATMs is dwindling.
    Additionally, the U.K. is currently leading the world in the adoption of contactless payments. Nearly half of all in-store transactions are contactless payments. Mastercard found that there has been a 97% increase in contactless payments across all of Europe.

    https://www.corecashless.com/the-worlds-top-3-cashless-countries/
    The whole world? About another 200 countries to add on.
    And more than 70% of all Americans still use cash for at least some of their purchases. However, as cashless infrastructure continues to grow and with the increase of the gig-economy, the trend towards cashless payments in the U.S. continues to lean towards a cashless society. Although the U.S. is currently behind Europe and Asia when it comes to cashless transactions, advances in FinTech (financial technologies) and the preference for mobile payments by Millennials and GenX’ers is leading to ever-increasing adoption of cashless payments by merchants and retailers which are in line with global trends. Though it’s hard to see and feel the cashless effects today, in the next five years paying with cash will be as cumbersome as writing a check is today.
  • HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 12,626
    chilling said:

    A cashless society would have to include the whole of the worlds population.
    Bear in mind, some folks, kids too, are walking miles just to get water.
    Townships in SA, which are densely populated, have their electric cut off without warning.
    It’s highly likely that folks in other countries have the same problem, which to my eye, makes it as likely to happen as seeing me sailing down the Thames on a slice of toast.

    When Did The Trend To Go Cashless Begin?
    During the 1990’s, the growing popularity of electronic banking made the use of non-cash transactions and settlements popular among the residents of some of the most technologically advanced nations of the world. Digital payment methods became well established in countries across the world by the 2010’s. Online tools like Paypal, NFC payments by smartphone or electronic cards, digital wallet systems operated by Apple, electronic banking and bill payment systems helped people make cashless transactions online. Some countries even started to set limits on transaction values that can be used for non-electronic payments to encourage cashless transactions.

    Potential Benefits Of A Cashless Society
    Cashless economies would be helpful to the global economy. Since cash is the primary mode of transactions in money laundering and terrorism financing,
    a cashless society would discourage such laundering and terrorism. Central governments would also benefit from such cashless transactions as it would allow central control of money supply. It would be easier for government to monitor income tax paid by individuals and proper payment of tax would strengthen the nation’s economy. Cashless transactions would be helpful in the context of negative global inflation and quantitative easing. Going cashless would also reduce the levels of corruption prevalent in the country.


    The most cashless societies of the world have been enlisted below. This data comes from a study done by Forex Bonuses. The scoring takes into consideration things like the amount of cards (debit and credit) per member of the population, the growth in the popularity of cashless payment, and the overall awareness of mobile payment technology. Coming out on top is Canada, where an estimated of 57% of transactions are cashless, making it the dominant way of paying. Next on the list are Sweden and the United Kingdom, where the majority of payments are cashless. France, the United States, and China are not far behind when it comes to cashless payment.

  • chillingchilling Member Posts: 2,004
    A developed country would find it fairly easy to go cashless, but for those countries still lagging behind in technology and most other things there’s surely a problem.
    I don’t think you can always look at everything through your own eyes.
    A card would have to go alongside a device to get online.
    About 40% of the worlds population have no mobile phone, obviously that percentage will include babies and minors.
    A card on its own seems pointless, as the holder needs to know what’s on it.
    As millions around the world spend all their time trying to feed themselves,the notion seems rather a long way off.
    Although, Mr Musk has plans with his satellites.
    So for the time being, my sailing adventure is on hold.
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