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The Death of SNGs
darsh11
Member Posts: 56
in Poker Chat
Hope I'm not posting out of turn here - I'm not an active member of the forum so this may have been done already.
I have really enjoyed playing on Sky over the years but now that I've started to put volume in my faith has started to waver.
A few months ago we had serious technical issues and for whatever reason sky continued to allow games to reg without announcing it.
When I contacted them they advised that technical issues would be avoided by using the client. However the client crashes 1-2 times per day and you'll miss a few hands by the time you can load the tables.
We seem to be paying a premium rake to play here but for whatever reason they couldn't compensate players properly for the technical problems.
What I really want to talk about is the fact that we've lost a lot of players over the last few months (on SNGS anyway) and since they are active elsewhere I don't see why they would return.
DYMs are dead most of the day (turbos aside due to promo) and 6-max doesn't run either.
If we're lucky enough for the games to reg, it's predominantly the same small pool of players playing them.
I believe the combination of unreliable software, high rake, and diminishing player pool is driving the few players we have away and also reducing the tournament guarantees. (Many SNG players play MTT too.)
Is there an argument for reducing the rake on SNGs to encourage people to start playing them again?
Ultimately if it's not possible to play SNGs here, the few players we have left may look elsewhere.
I apologise if this is out of line - the intention of the post is simply to start a discussion about the future of SNGs.
I have really enjoyed playing on Sky over the years but now that I've started to put volume in my faith has started to waver.
A few months ago we had serious technical issues and for whatever reason sky continued to allow games to reg without announcing it.
When I contacted them they advised that technical issues would be avoided by using the client. However the client crashes 1-2 times per day and you'll miss a few hands by the time you can load the tables.
We seem to be paying a premium rake to play here but for whatever reason they couldn't compensate players properly for the technical problems.
What I really want to talk about is the fact that we've lost a lot of players over the last few months (on SNGS anyway) and since they are active elsewhere I don't see why they would return.
DYMs are dead most of the day (turbos aside due to promo) and 6-max doesn't run either.
If we're lucky enough for the games to reg, it's predominantly the same small pool of players playing them.
I believe the combination of unreliable software, high rake, and diminishing player pool is driving the few players we have away and also reducing the tournament guarantees. (Many SNG players play MTT too.)
Is there an argument for reducing the rake on SNGs to encourage people to start playing them again?
Ultimately if it's not possible to play SNGs here, the few players we have left may look elsewhere.
I apologise if this is out of line - the intention of the post is simply to start a discussion about the future of SNGs.
Comments
I actually played mostly sng before coming to Sky usually on either Stars or Party because I could always find enough action to 4 table $2 - $5 sng and also preferred that they were full ring 9 max and sometimes even 10 max.
Since coming to Sky, a site I really like, despite the bugs, I usually play mtt deeps and freezeouts. I will play the occasional bounty hunter but they're not my game and also the odd DYM.
Your post , for me, certainly isn't out of line. I think it's very valid.
My own opinion is that sng on Sky are pretty much dead with the exception of turbo dym and if you want regular 6 max you may need to look elsewhere.
I started playing here about 20 months ago with a modest deposit and started off playing the lowest of stakes in dyms and have moved up carefully to the point i am comfortable now playing up to £30. The problem is no normal speed dyms above £5.50 buy in run in the daytime or late at night. You might get a few in the evening but no where near enough for anyone who considers themselves a grinder.
I don't much like the hyper turbo dyms so what am I to do? Accept I can't progress any further and keep filling my screen with £3 and £5 games forevermore? Or go to another site where I can keep trying to improve my rate of profit in the games i like to play? Should be a fairly straightforward decision but i do like it here and have had a good bit of luck in mtts which keeps me playing here for now.
A lot of the other smaller sites run weekly sng leaderboards or other regular sng promotions. Like i've moaned about before it seems those running things at sky poker are more interested incentivising stupid omaha mtts and 50p nightly micro leagues rather than £20 sngs. The rake is more than double than what it is on the big sites despite the software here being so bad compared to the others.
Something needs to be done asap
It just appears even more stark at present as they had a bump during lockdown and now that’s over and the weather is good, numbers look worse than ever
I think Sky can go either way
Drop regulars altogether and just host the speed dyms
Or drop rake on regulars to an amount comparable with other sites
As a regular dym player on here i’d obviously prefer the latter but i fear the former
Nothing stopping you or anyone else promoting a SnG based forum competition or challenge and asking for help with an added prize or two.
I'm having a dabble back with DYMs only because of the Premiership promo. My preferred game is 6max SnGs but I have long since realised I have to sacrifice the availability of those to play on a site where I prefer to play and try and adapt my game accordingly.
IMO Turbo rake should be lower .
+1
....and the rake on regular DYM's .......PLEASEEven MTTs are down - I think there is a relationship between the two - with SNGs sometimes being a gateway into playing tourneys.
I know we had the DYM streak week but I remember joining the site a few years ago and there were more regular promos to encourage recreational players to play DYMs. I joined some years ago with no poker experience and played more games whenever there was a happy hour which seemed to be relatively frequent.
DYM Streak Week / Premiership is great but as a community we would be better off attracting the next batch of players rather than encourage the remaining players to put in more volume.
I really hope they don't exacerbate the problem my abolishing regular DYMs and introducing more hyper formats.
While I agree spin and go's are shite if you look at lobby on party or stars there are thousands of other sng a lot of which still seem really busy. There is definitely a higher % of the player pool playing sng on these sites than there is on sky.
Maybe even if you just came up with a constructive idea for a DYM promo or forum comp others might take it up.
FWIW I don't understand why players should set up their own competitions to encourage gameplay.
If the rake is 10% I think it's absurd that loyal regs should fund/organise promos if they want to see games running.
I respect the effort the micro guys have made but it seems like a bit of fun amongst existing players so I'm sceptical this measure would attract/retain our player pool.
If the mid-stakes die like the higher stakes - eventually the low stakes and micros will follow. Players inevitably strive to move up stakes - not down.
The most constructive ideas I have are rake reduction / weekly happy hour.
Frankly speaking, I'd welcome anything that attracts the next wave of poker players rather than getting the sharks/grinders playing round the clock for a few weeks.
@darsh11
"fund promos"?
Huh?
This whole thing is being twisted out of recognition.
Free to Enter Forum Comps are just intended as a bit of fun, a way of engaging with the Community. They have not been shown to increase traffic, they are just part of "Community", which is something Sky Poker do way better than any other poker site. If you don't like them, fine, don't get involved, but to suggest players are "funding" them is wrong. The Business give me a budget, & I give it away in a way that helps players - especially those with a limited budget - enjoy their poker & maybe add a little bite at no cost to them.
I'm not sure on what basis Sky Poker can be criticised for that or on what basis "loyal regs are funding them".
In the case of the PLO8 one, PLO8 is a small community and it helps to have a focus to keep/grow the player pool.
The sorts of competitions set up by forum members are generally by recs for recs and it is all part of the community that I think we are so blessed to have available.
The fact that @Tikay10 has a small monthly budget to help these comps out is a good thing and that budget is a drop in the ocean compared to the main promotions run by Skypoker.
I don't know anything about the promo and if they are just for fun - that's great.
I have no idea how they are funded/organised - I just read the previous comments and understood they were organised by the players themselves - which as suggested I don't think is the right way to solve this issue.
I think it's great Sky are doing something to encourage the micros - eventually some of the players will move up - I'm not pointing fingers - I just understood from Phantoms first post that it wasn't a Sky Promo so that seemed quite odd.
The purpose of this thread is simply to see if something, anything, can be done to reverse the decline of SNGs.
Don't get me wrong. I think it's great and ultimately everyone benefits. The micro players are so important and quite rightly effort is put in.
I must have misunderstood your original post so I apologise - I understood that it was a non-sky initiative.
When I started playing poker in 2013/14 I played a lot of the smaller stakes tournaments / freerolls etc and the more Sky does in this respect, the better.
I think Greg's original point is a fair one. An effort has been made for the PLO/Micro community (great!) but less so for the regular sngs (not so great!).
Don't mean to moan but just as a reference. It's the same 2/3 players trying to get the games going.
Managed to get the £16.50 to run but we eventually gave up on the £22.