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Dodgy?

DarntootinDarntootin Member Posts: 1,496
DYM - Is this an acceptable fold or basically chip dumping?
PlayerActionCardsAmountPotBalance
WhizzewkySmall blind300.00300.00525.00
bugalus1Big blind600.00900.006577.50
Your hole cards
  • K
  • Q
  • 8
  • J
eon1961Fold
DarntootinFold
WhizzewkyAll-in525.001425.000.00
bugalus1Fold
WhizzewkyMuck
WhizzewkyWin1200.001200.00
WhizzewkyReturn225.000.001425.00
«1

Comments

  • K0BAYASHlK0BAYASHl Member Posts: 1,828
    Report it to CC and they will see if this thing happens frequently between them. Its sometimes easy to click fold by accident or even auto pilot fold and not realise your priced in to call any 2 lol.
  • Jac35Jac35 Member Posts: 5,734
    edited November 4
    There’s nothing to see here

    @Whizzewky has played nearly 200k games on Sky
    The chances of him suddenly beginning to collude with someone are around 0 in a Million

    Any number of reasons why bugalus1 may have folded.

    If you’re going to put names of players in a thread that you title “Dodgy?” then I think you should be gathering much more evidence first
  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 2,147
    Yea @Whizzewky is a good guy, no collussion. Other chips stacks would help but why would bugalus put any more chips in, he's 99.9% to cash with his stack as it is. (IMO obv)
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 82,896
    Enut said:

    Yea @Whizzewky is a good guy, no collussion. Other chips stacks would help but why would bugalus put any more chips in, he's 99.9% to cash with his stack as it is. (IMO obv)

    @Enut

    Yup, Buggy has probably shut down & just wants to sit out until he cashes. There's an argument to suggest it's a very disciplined fold in a DYM.

    PS - Agree, Whizzy is as straight as a die.
  • edrichedrich Member Posts: 972
    You really do need a few more suspicious plays before you can even start to suspect any collusion. As already said, there are many reasons for seemingly strange online actions.

    If players are colluding you will notice multiple strange plays between them. It's quite easy to spot in DYM games, and is also very rare on Sky. In the few instances I've seen it, Sky have always dealt with it pretty promptly.

    I think that posting this on the forum with players names visible is wrong. As is challenging players in the chat box, which I see quite often. If you are suspicious, just report it to CC and let them have a look.

    I agree with the others that you are barking up the wrong tree with @Whizzewky , one of the good guys.



  • DarntootinDarntootin Member Posts: 1,496
    First of all I have at no point mentioned collusion. The question was, "Is this an acceptable fold or basically chip dumping?" Chip dumping can be for a variety of reasons other than direct collusion. Friendship, a grudge, incompetence, just being a ****, etc. So the defence of Whizz by those above is baffling as he has played no part in the question I posed and quite unnecessary.

    "Any number of reasons why bugalus1 may have folded."

    "...why would bugalus put any more chips in, he's 99.9% to cash with his stack as it is."

    "Buggy has probably shut down & just wants to sit out until he cashes. There's an argument to suggest it's a very disciplined fold in a DYM."

    So from the answers quoted above it seems that I am to conclude that it is acceptable for a player with more than half the chips in play to fold their big blind of 600 chips for an additional 225?

    lol

  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 82,896
    edited November 5
    You can never make a judgement based on a single play, for which there may be a variety of valid reasons.

    If someone does that sort of thing repeatedly, then yes, but never a one-off, there are too many possibly innocent reasons.

    It's so easy to be on auto-pilot when 5 or 6 tabling & make a silly mistake because you have put that table "at the back" as it's virtually a lock.

    And many of us know Whizzy going back 10 or 12 years here, he has a rock solid reputation. I don't know bugulas well, though I know he's been here a long time & has a clean rep.

    So I don't think any conclusions should be drawn from what I agree looks a very odd play on the face of it.
  • DarntootinDarntootin Member Posts: 1,496
    "...many of us know Whizzy going back 10 or 12 years here, he has a rock solid reputation."

    Let me say again that this is not about Whizz. As you know the PLO8 player pool on the site is small. Tiny. Miniscule. I have played hundreds of games with both Whizz and Buggerlugs. There is no inference of collusion between the two players but that in itself does not exclude the possibility of chip dumping for other reasons. It's also true that it may be a completely innocent error. But the fact remains that it stinks and is very disappointing. Still, worse things happen at sea and we move on.
  • MattBatesMattBates Member Posts: 3,766
    It is about whizz because you posted their name. You could of renamed them player A. It is easy to make mistakes when playing online poker, no one is perfect.
    The opening post said basically chip dumping which isn't a good accusation to be throwing around.
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 82,896

    "There is no inference of collusion between the two players but that in itself does not exclude the possibility of chip dumping for other reasons"


    In a DYM chip dumping is no different to collusion.

    As one who has been on the receiving end of posts like this, trust me, it's not nice.

    But yes, let's leave it at that & move on.
  • DarntootinDarntootin Member Posts: 1,496
    MattBates said:

    It is about whizz because you posted their name. You could of renamed them player A. It is easy to make mistakes when playing online poker, no one is perfect.
    The opening post said basically chip dumping which isn't a good accusation to be throwing around.

    The question was about the fold. Whizz didn't make the fold. The post is not about what Whizz has done in any way.
  • DarntootinDarntootin Member Posts: 1,496
    "In a DYM chip dumping is no different to collusion."

    It takes two or more players to be involved in collusion. Chip dumping can be performed by one player without the consent of another.
  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 2,147
    Can you post the whole hand so we can see the chip stacks of the other players?

    Maybe bugalus was concentrating on other tables as he had this one sewn up.

    Maybe he timed out because he was making a cup of tea.

    Maybe he miss clicked.

    Maybe his cat jumped on the keyboard and acted for him.

    Maybe he miss read the bet size.

    Maybe he didn't want to risk giving another 225 chips to a good player.

    Maybe he folded 2222

    Interesting technical point about chip dumping as you're accusing a guy of chip dumping who didn't put a single voluntary chip in the pot.
  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 82,896
    edited November 5
    @Darntootin

    Yes, I take your point that the thread is about Buggy, not Whizz.

    Buggy has played over 6,000 SNG's here, mostly PLO8 I would think, in what you rightly say is a very small player base. If he was up to no good I'm sure it would have been spotted by many of us a long time ago.

    In my view, it's almost certainly a case of a misclick fold due to not concentrating, multi tabling or whatever. Deliberately folding in such a very obvious spot as this is surely not something anyone would try to do as it's so obvious.

    To my mind it's 100/1 that anything iffy was going off.

    PS - The 1.45 Sedgefield this afternoon was won by a 100/1 shot. ;)
  • eon1961eon1961 Member Posts: 921
    edited November 5
    If I had a hand like 9997 I would always fold, why give away another 225 chips. A hand like Q953 I would call with reluctantly. It's just about the %.
  • DarntootinDarntootin Member Posts: 1,496
    Enut said:

    Can you post the whole hand so we can see the chip stacks of the other players?

    Maybe bugalus was concentrating on other tables as he had this one sewn up.

    Maybe he timed out because he was making a cup of tea.

    Maybe he miss clicked.

    Maybe his cat jumped on the keyboard and acted for him.

    Maybe he miss read the bet size.

    Maybe he didn't want to risk giving another 225 chips to a good player.

    Maybe he folded 2222

    Interesting technical point about chip dumping as you're accusing a guy of chip dumping who didn't put a single voluntary chip in the pot.

    No. This is how the hand displayed when copied from hand history. It has not been edited by me. From memory the two stacks were fairly evenly split with the remaining chips, maybe a couple of hundred in it. Not sure it's relevant though?

    Maybe?

    No.

    Maybe?

    Maybe?

    Maybe?

    lol

    Maybe? Is it a fold in the circumstances though? Maybe?

    I haven't accused anybody of anything. I've merely asked a question.

  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 2,147
    It might be relevant if one of the other stacks was tiny.

    For what it's worth I have certainly seen stranger folds, there are definitely players who, if they have a big stack and are virtually certain to cash, will fold everything. These are probably players who are multi tabling and will assume that they can ignore that table and not play a hand. They are probably right in most cases but it does lead to folds when only a few more chips are involved, like this case.



  • DarntootinDarntootin Member Posts: 1,496
    eon1961 said:

    If I had a hand like 9997 I would always fold, why give away another 225 chips. A hand like Q953 I would call with reluctantly. It's just about the %.

    Under the circumstances, if this was a live game then I make the call without looking at my cards. Surely 225 chips as a percentage of the big blinds monster stack is a trivial irrelevance here?
  • chappo100chappo100 Member Posts: 98
    interesting to know if 2222 should flick it in or not probs pretty close lol. Suprised if I play a poker session and don't get one or two folds in spots where I should have no fold equity, probs can factor in a good % of missclicks/not paying attention to nitty noobness :D
  • EnutEnut Member Posts: 2,147
    eon1961 said:

    If I had a hand like 9997 I would always fold, why give away another 225 chips. A hand like Q953 I would call with reluctantly. It's just about the %.

    9997 v 2222 is 100%, that's why you always beat me up if you have 9997 I'll have 2222! :):):)
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