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Pay Insult?

HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534





A number of the papers focus on the 1% pay rise the government has recommended for NHS staff in England next year.

An "Insult to NHS heroes" is the Daily Mirror's take on the proposed pay rise. It says the increase would mean just £3.50 per week extra for the most experienced nurses.

The i reports that there is "fury" among NHS staff.

Referring to the weekly round of applause during the first lockdown, the paper quotes a doctor saying: "Is the government saying 'let them eat claps?'"

The Guardian suggests that with a final decision not due until May, ministers are "bound to come under intense pressure" to increase the offer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-56288212
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    TheEdge949TheEdge949 Member Posts: 5,280
    I have to believe that this is not going to be the final outcome. Surely any Government with a modicum of common sense, decency, and self preservation would understand that this is a monumental own goal.

    Or are they looking beyond the summer when perhaps the "front line" NHS workers can once again be marginalised and ignored as the BMW, Merc and Audi driving administrators plunder their six figure salaries for doing f..k all.

    5 - 10 % minimum for front line staff, as for the suits with the clipboards, the assistants and the charge cards, let them eat cr4ps.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534

    I have to believe that this is not going to be the final outcome. Surely any Government with a modicum of common sense, decency, and self preservation would understand that this is a monumental own goal.

    Or are they looking beyond the summer when perhaps the "front line" NHS workers can once again be marginalised and ignored as the BMW, Merc and Audi driving administrators plunder their six figure salaries for doing f..k all.

    5 - 10 % minimum for front line staff, as for the suits with the clipboards, the assistants and the charge cards, let them eat cr4ps.

    Boris fears Carrie's No10 makeover may cost £200,000 as aides are told: 'Don't mention the flat!'

    Boris Johnson told aides of his worries on how to pay for his fiancee's refurbishment. A source said the Cabinet Office had asked Conservative chiefs if party HQ has paid for some of the work.




    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9327627/Boris-Johnson-fears-Carrie-Symonds-No10-makeover-cost-200-000.html


    Boris and Carrie's £12,500 secret pandemic food deliveries: PM and fiancée have dined in style on gourmet takeaways smuggled in from Britain's poshest farm shop owned by Tory donor

    Boris Johnson and Carrie Symonds have had around 30 giant boxes of shopping and up to 100 prepared meals from a luxury organic food store 'smuggled in' to Downing Street via the back door.




    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9328093/Takeaways-Boris-Johnson-Carrie-Symonds-UKs-poshest-farm-shop-12-500.html


    Government settles bullying claim against Priti Patel with 'substantial' payout worth £370,000 for former senior Home Office civil servant Sir Philip Rutnam



    Sir Philip, who quit as the Home Office's permanent secretary after accusing the Home Secretary of a 'vicious and orchestrated briefing campaign' against him, said he was pleased his claim had been settled


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9326449/Government-settles-bullying-claim-against-Priti-Patel-former-civil-servant.html
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    VespaPXVespaPX Member Posts: 12,036
    edited March 2021
    Run the NHS into the ground then claim it needs private finance to bail it out.
    Another step down the privatisation road, and we're well along that road already.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534





    A number of front pages continue to focus on the row over NHS pay, including the Daily Express, which highlights the threat of strike action by nurses in England upset about their proposed 1% wage increase.

    The Daily Mirror has the headline: "Boris' Slap For Carers."

    The Daily Star accuses the prime minister of betraying what it calls the "NHS heroes" who saved his life when he fell ill with Covid last year.

    For the FT Weekend, the growing backlash is "the first test of Mr Johnson's commitment to post-pandemic fiscal discipline".

    It says some Conservatives are worried the government is on the wrong side of public opinion, with one unnamed MP quoted saying: "When I heard the news my heart sank. I was really surprised they weren't more generous."


    The Daily Mail claims to expose what it calls a "cover-up" by the Conservatives following the renovation of Boris Johnson's flat above Downing Street.

    The paper says it has been told that Tory party funds met a large part of the reported £200,000 redecoration bill - before officials, in the Mail's words, "tried to hide the truth".

    It says one or more wealthy donors are thought to have paid an equivalent sum to the Conservatives "apparently in the hope that the party's involvement in the affair would stay hidden", and the Tories now plan to declare the contribution to the Electoral Commission "in an attempt to quell the furore".

    Downing Street insists there has been no wrongdoing.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-56302033
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
    Government accused of 'snatching away NHS pay rise of 2.1%' as union backlash grows

    Deputy chief executive of NHS Providers Saffron Cordery said: "It is very disappointing that the government has said that a 1% pay rise is all that is affordable when they know that the assumption was that the 2021/22 NHS pay rise would be 2.1% - and that this was covered by the NHS revenue settlement announced by Theresa May in June 2018.

    "This settlement was then enshrined in a formal act of parliament, the NHS Funding Act 2020."

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/government-accused-of-snatching-away-nhs-pay-rise-of-2-1-as-union-backlash-grows/ar-BB1eiFES?ocid=msedgntp
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534

    The government's proposed 1% pay offer for NHS workers in England is still making the front pages.

    The Observer reports that ministers are "facing a backlash" from the public, with a survey for the paper suggesting 72% of voters think the increase is too low.

    It says the criticism comes from a "broad range" of people - with a "clear majority" of Conservative voters in favour of a more generous deal.

    Senior Tories have told the paper that Chancellor Rishi Sunak "will be forced to U-turn" - with "many MPs" predicting the offer will be "revisited" when the NHS pay review bodies make their salary recommendations in May.

    "Time to pay up, Boris" is the headline in the Sunday People.

    Highlighting the ongoing strain on the NHS, the Independent says almost six million "hidden" patients could join the queue for treatment in England in the coming months - swelling waiting lists to records not seen for more than a decade.

    The chief executive of the NHS Confederation, Danny Mortimer, tells the website that some patients will have to wait months - or even beyond a year - to be seen.

    The chancellor, he says, has only "done half the job". Having promised to give the NHS whatever it needed at the height of the pandemic, he now needs to invest in tackling the consequences - long waiting lists, long covid and a surge in mental health problems.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-56309738
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
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    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534

    The president of the Royal College of Nursing union, Prof Dame Anne Marie Rafferty, tells the i that a one-off cash bonus for NHS staff could avert a strike over pay.

    The Daily Mirror claims "fury is mounting" over the proposed 1% rise. Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer tells the paper that Boris Johnson's spending priorities are wrong.

    But the Sun says the prime minister has hinted that he will increase the offer. The suggestion is echoed by the Times, saying Boris Johnson has suggested that nurses could be treated "exceptionally".



    The Times's front page reports that contractors linked to the NHS Test and Trace system have been offered advice by civil servants about how to apply for honours, such as MBEs.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-the-papers-56355464
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    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,111
    I have to say I get rather tired of the annual demand for massive pay rises for Doctors and Nurses. No-one else these days is "insulted" by a pay rise. The papers never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Some points to note:-

    1. The average Nurse now earns between £33-35,000 p.a
    2. The average GP? £65,000
    3. The average Consultant? About £100,000
    4. The supposed "1%" conveniently ignores 1 important fact. Most NHS Medical posts have salary bands, so there are automatic pay increases to reward seniority/length of service
    5. There are over 2 million people employed by the NHS. Any pay rise has to be paid by the rest of us. As well as the considerable other benefits, such as the Final Salary Pension Schemes
    6. Supply and Demand is ignored. Due to the previous pay rises, together with being 1 of the few recession-proof careers, record numbers are applying to enter Nursing
    7. No-one is denying that a large majority of frontline staff have done a brilliant job. But keeping people healthy is the job. The Army don't demand pay rises when they are sent to war-it is part of the job

    Over the last year, NHS staff have done a brilliant job. Should they get a 1-off bonus? Yes. Should they get a pay rise? Yes. Should they get a massive pay rise? No.

    Finally, note how it is always the top earners (doctors) and the middle earners (nurses) who demand pay rises.

    Whereas the lower paid-the porters, the carers, seem less of a priority. Even though they have worked just as hard.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
    Essexphil said:

    I have to say I get rather tired of the annual demand for massive pay rises for Doctors and Nurses. No-one else these days is "insulted" by a pay rise. The papers never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Some points to note:-

    1. The average Nurse now earns between £33-35,000 p.a
    2. The average GP? £65,000
    3. The average Consultant? About £100,000
    4. The supposed "1%" conveniently ignores 1 important fact. Most NHS Medical posts have salary bands, so there are automatic pay increases to reward seniority/length of service
    5. There are over 2 million people employed by the NHS. Any pay rise has to be paid by the rest of us. As well as the considerable other benefits, such as the Final Salary Pension Schemes
    6. Supply and Demand is ignored. Due to the previous pay rises, together with being 1 of the few recession-proof careers, record numbers are applying to enter Nursing
    7. No-one is denying that a large majority of frontline staff have done a brilliant job. But keeping people healthy is the job. The Army don't demand pay rises when they are sent to war-it is part of the job

    Over the last year, NHS staff have done a brilliant job. Should they get a 1-off bonus? Yes. Should they get a pay rise? Yes. Should they get a massive pay rise? No.

    Finally, note how it is always the top earners (doctors) and the middle earners (nurses) who demand pay rises.

    Whereas the lower paid-the porters, the carers, seem less of a priority. Even though they have worked just as hard.

    Putting aside whether they deserve it or not.
    I suppose they have every right to be disappointed if they feel they were promised 2.1%, and are now set to receive less than half of that.


    "Tory MPs voted for 2.1%. The government budgeted for 2.1% and it was passed in legislation because the spending plans for the NHS came to the House of Commons and it went through the Commons - every Tory MP voted for 2.1% in January last year.


    How much does a nurse earn?

    The average nurse salary is £25,578 within the UK. Fully qualified nurses can expect to earn at least £22,000 rising to over £28,000 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. A nurse salary rises when new responsibilities are taken on such as ward sister, ward manager or team leader position.


    What is the average salary of a registered nurse?

    An entry-level Registered Nurse (RN) with less than 1 year experience can expect to earn an average total compensation (includes tips, bonus, and overtime pay) of £22,902 based on 190 salaries. An early career Registered Nurse (RN) with 1-4 years of experience earns an average total compensation of £23,767 based on 1,269 salaries.



    The NHS 1% Pay Rise Calculator
    Find out how much your NHS Pay will increase if the 1% pay rise goes ahead.

    The NHS salary for Band 3 with 2 years experience:

    £21,142 per annum
    1% will increase your NHS Salary to:

    £21,353.42 per annum
    That's a pay rise of:

    £4.07 per week

    https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,111
    edited March 2021
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I have to say I get rather tired of the annual demand for massive pay rises for Doctors and Nurses. No-one else these days is "insulted" by a pay rise. The papers never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Some points to note:-

    1. The average Nurse now earns between £33-35,000 p.a
    2. The average GP? £65,000
    3. The average Consultant? About £100,000
    4. The supposed "1%" conveniently ignores 1 important fact. Most NHS Medical posts have salary bands, so there are automatic pay increases to reward seniority/length of service
    5. There are over 2 million people employed by the NHS. Any pay rise has to be paid by the rest of us. As well as the considerable other benefits, such as the Final Salary Pension Schemes
    6. Supply and Demand is ignored. Due to the previous pay rises, together with being 1 of the few recession-proof careers, record numbers are applying to enter Nursing
    7. No-one is denying that a large majority of frontline staff have done a brilliant job. But keeping people healthy is the job. The Army don't demand pay rises when they are sent to war-it is part of the job

    Over the last year, NHS staff have done a brilliant job. Should they get a 1-off bonus? Yes. Should they get a pay rise? Yes. Should they get a massive pay rise? No.

    Finally, note how it is always the top earners (doctors) and the middle earners (nurses) who demand pay rises.

    Whereas the lower paid-the porters, the carers, seem less of a priority. Even though they have worked just as hard.

    Putting aside whether they deserve it or not.
    I suppose they have every right to be disappointed if they feel they were promised 2.1%, and are now set to receive less than half of that.


    "Tory MPs voted for 2.1%. The government budgeted for 2.1% and it was passed in legislation because the spending plans for the NHS came to the House of Commons and it went through the Commons - every Tory MP voted for 2.1% in January last year.


    How much does a nurse earn?

    The average nurse salary is £25,578 within the UK. Fully qualified nurses can expect to earn at least £22,000 rising to over £28,000 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. A nurse salary rises when new responsibilities are taken on such as ward sister, ward manager or team leader position.


    What is the average salary of a registered nurse?

    An entry-level Registered Nurse (RN) with less than 1 year experience can expect to earn an average total compensation (includes tips, bonus, and overtime pay) of £22,902 based on 190 salaries. An early career Registered Nurse (RN) with 1-4 years of experience earns an average total compensation of £23,767 based on 1,269 salaries.



    The NHS 1% Pay Rise Calculator
    Find out how much your NHS Pay will increase if the 1% pay rise goes ahead.

    The NHS salary for Band 3 with 2 years experience:

    £21,142 per annum
    1% will increase your NHS Salary to:

    £21,353.42 per annum
    That's a pay rise of:

    £4.07 per week

    https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
    That is totally misleading.

    You cannot say that an average nurse is Newly Qualified with less than 1 years' service. Because the average Nurse is a lot older, with a lot more experience.
    As the article you quote actually says, the average nurses pay is between £33-35K. And that figure was from the largest Nursing Union (the RCN)

    To start with a simple example, you receive a band uplift of just under 10% for achieving 2 years' service. So that equates to a 6% p.a pay rise if you add the 1%p.a to it. The only people getting just 1% are the people already at the top of the pay band.

    Then there is the simple fact that Nursing is not a 9-5 job. If (as the vast majority do) you work your fair share of nights, Bank Holidays etc, pay for those days is enhanced by 30-60%. Then there is weighting according to where you work.

    Yes, I get that MPs voted for 2.1%. Before the world changed. And budget constraints with them. Which would you prefer? Halving of 1 element of your pay rises, or losing your job, as has happened to pretty much everyone in other industries (such as hospitality)?
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I have to say I get rather tired of the annual demand for massive pay rises for Doctors and Nurses. No-one else these days is "insulted" by a pay rise. The papers never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Some points to note:-

    1. The average Nurse now earns between £33-35,000 p.a
    2. The average GP? £65,000
    3. The average Consultant? About £100,000
    4. The supposed "1%" conveniently ignores 1 important fact. Most NHS Medical posts have salary bands, so there are automatic pay increases to reward seniority/length of service
    5. There are over 2 million people employed by the NHS. Any pay rise has to be paid by the rest of us. As well as the considerable other benefits, such as the Final Salary Pension Schemes
    6. Supply and Demand is ignored. Due to the previous pay rises, together with being 1 of the few recession-proof careers, record numbers are applying to enter Nursing
    7. No-one is denying that a large majority of frontline staff have done a brilliant job. But keeping people healthy is the job. The Army don't demand pay rises when they are sent to war-it is part of the job

    Over the last year, NHS staff have done a brilliant job. Should they get a 1-off bonus? Yes. Should they get a pay rise? Yes. Should they get a massive pay rise? No.

    Finally, note how it is always the top earners (doctors) and the middle earners (nurses) who demand pay rises.

    Whereas the lower paid-the porters, the carers, seem less of a priority. Even though they have worked just as hard.

    Putting aside whether they deserve it or not.
    I suppose they have every right to be disappointed if they feel they were promised 2.1%, and are now set to receive less than half of that.


    "Tory MPs voted for 2.1%. The government budgeted for 2.1% and it was passed in legislation because the spending plans for the NHS came to the House of Commons and it went through the Commons - every Tory MP voted for 2.1% in January last year.


    How much does a nurse earn?

    The average nurse salary is £25,578 within the UK. Fully qualified nurses can expect to earn at least £22,000 rising to over £28,000 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. A nurse salary rises when new responsibilities are taken on such as ward sister, ward manager or team leader position.


    What is the average salary of a registered nurse?

    An entry-level Registered Nurse (RN) with less than 1 year experience can expect to earn an average total compensation (includes tips, bonus, and overtime pay) of £22,902 based on 190 salaries. An early career Registered Nurse (RN) with 1-4 years of experience earns an average total compensation of £23,767 based on 1,269 salaries.



    The NHS 1% Pay Rise Calculator
    Find out how much your NHS Pay will increase if the 1% pay rise goes ahead.

    The NHS salary for Band 3 with 2 years experience:

    £21,142 per annum
    1% will increase your NHS Salary to:

    £21,353.42 per annum
    That's a pay rise of:

    £4.07 per week

    https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
    That is totally misleading.

    You cannot say that an average nurse is Newly Qualified with less than 1 years' service. Because the average Nurse is a lot older, with a lot more experience.
    As the article you quote actually says, the average nurses pay is between £33-35K. And that figure was from the largest Nursing Union (the RCN)

    To start with a simple example, you receive a band uplift of just under 10% for achieving 2 years' service. So that equates to a 6% p.a pay rise if you add the 1%p.a to it. The only people getting just 1% are the people already at the top of the pay band.

    Then there is the simple fact that Nursing is not a 9-5 job. If (as the vast majority do) you work your fair share of nights, Bank Holidays etc, pay for those days is enhanced by 30-60%. Then there is weighting according to where you work.

    Yes, I get that MPs voted for 2.1%. Before the world changed. And budget constraints with them. Which would you prefer? Halving of 1 element of your pay rises, or losing your job, as has happened to pretty much everyone in other industries (such as hospitality)?
    I am not arguing about the nurses average wage.
    I merely included some examples that show that many nurses earn far below the average.
    I still think that anyone that is given less than half the pay rise they were promised is likely to be disappointed.
    You allude to the effects of the pandemic as the reason for the reduction.
    When the part that the front line NHS staff have played must make it thar much more galling.
    The way you big up the nurses pay makes the NHS staff shortages all the more difficult to understand.
    The track and trace investment could have paid for the higher increase for the next 74 years.
  • Options
    EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,111
    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I have to say I get rather tired of the annual demand for massive pay rises for Doctors and Nurses. No-one else these days is "insulted" by a pay rise. The papers never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Some points to note:-

    1. The average Nurse now earns between £33-35,000 p.a
    2. The average GP? £65,000
    3. The average Consultant? About £100,000
    4. The supposed "1%" conveniently ignores 1 important fact. Most NHS Medical posts have salary bands, so there are automatic pay increases to reward seniority/length of service
    5. There are over 2 million people employed by the NHS. Any pay rise has to be paid by the rest of us. As well as the considerable other benefits, such as the Final Salary Pension Schemes
    6. Supply and Demand is ignored. Due to the previous pay rises, together with being 1 of the few recession-proof careers, record numbers are applying to enter Nursing
    7. No-one is denying that a large majority of frontline staff have done a brilliant job. But keeping people healthy is the job. The Army don't demand pay rises when they are sent to war-it is part of the job

    Over the last year, NHS staff have done a brilliant job. Should they get a 1-off bonus? Yes. Should they get a pay rise? Yes. Should they get a massive pay rise? No.

    Finally, note how it is always the top earners (doctors) and the middle earners (nurses) who demand pay rises.

    Whereas the lower paid-the porters, the carers, seem less of a priority. Even though they have worked just as hard.

    Putting aside whether they deserve it or not.
    I suppose they have every right to be disappointed if they feel they were promised 2.1%, and are now set to receive less than half of that.


    "Tory MPs voted for 2.1%. The government budgeted for 2.1% and it was passed in legislation because the spending plans for the NHS came to the House of Commons and it went through the Commons - every Tory MP voted for 2.1% in January last year.


    How much does a nurse earn?

    The average nurse salary is £25,578 within the UK. Fully qualified nurses can expect to earn at least £22,000 rising to over £28,000 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. A nurse salary rises when new responsibilities are taken on such as ward sister, ward manager or team leader position.


    What is the average salary of a registered nurse?

    An entry-level Registered Nurse (RN) with less than 1 year experience can expect to earn an average total compensation (includes tips, bonus, and overtime pay) of £22,902 based on 190 salaries. An early career Registered Nurse (RN) with 1-4 years of experience earns an average total compensation of £23,767 based on 1,269 salaries.



    The NHS 1% Pay Rise Calculator
    Find out how much your NHS Pay will increase if the 1% pay rise goes ahead.

    The NHS salary for Band 3 with 2 years experience:

    £21,142 per annum
    1% will increase your NHS Salary to:

    £21,353.42 per annum
    That's a pay rise of:

    £4.07 per week

    https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
    That is totally misleading.

    You cannot say that an average nurse is Newly Qualified with less than 1 years' service. Because the average Nurse is a lot older, with a lot more experience.
    As the article you quote actually says, the average nurses pay is between £33-35K. And that figure was from the largest Nursing Union (the RCN)

    To start with a simple example, you receive a band uplift of just under 10% for achieving 2 years' service. So that equates to a 6% p.a pay rise if you add the 1%p.a to it. The only people getting just 1% are the people already at the top of the pay band.

    Then there is the simple fact that Nursing is not a 9-5 job. If (as the vast majority do) you work your fair share of nights, Bank Holidays etc, pay for those days is enhanced by 30-60%. Then there is weighting according to where you work.

    Yes, I get that MPs voted for 2.1%. Before the world changed. And budget constraints with them. Which would you prefer? Halving of 1 element of your pay rises, or losing your job, as has happened to pretty much everyone in other industries (such as hospitality)?
    I am not arguing about the nurses average wage.
    I merely included some examples that show that many nurses earn far below the average.
    I still think that anyone that is given less than half the pay rise they were promised is likely to be disappointed.
    You allude to the effects of the pandemic as the reason for the reduction.
    When the part that the front line NHS staff have played must make it thar much more galling.
    The way you big up the nurses pay makes the NHS staff shortages all the more difficult to understand.
    The track and trace investment could have paid for the higher increase for the next 74 years.
    If some people didn't earn less, and some more, it wouldn't be an average.

    Pay rises not on merit-just for being there.
    Bound to be "disappointed"-just not as much as the thousands who lost their jobs.
    We have spent £billions of money due to the pandemic. You think any other people are getting huge pay rises?

    I'm not "bigging up" nurse's pay-I'm saying what it is. It takes years to train Nurses-a degree for starters-so there is a time lag. Fact remains record numbers are now training.

    Track and trace was largely a waste. but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of worthy causes for limited money.

    Soldiers don't demand pay increases for winning wars. And they don't threaten to go on strike.
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I have to say I get rather tired of the annual demand for massive pay rises for Doctors and Nurses. No-one else these days is "insulted" by a pay rise. The papers never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Some points to note:-

    1. The average Nurse now earns between £33-35,000 p.a
    2. The average GP? £65,000
    3. The average Consultant? About £100,000
    4. The supposed "1%" conveniently ignores 1 important fact. Most NHS Medical posts have salary bands, so there are automatic pay increases to reward seniority/length of service
    5. There are over 2 million people employed by the NHS. Any pay rise has to be paid by the rest of us. As well as the considerable other benefits, such as the Final Salary Pension Schemes
    6. Supply and Demand is ignored. Due to the previous pay rises, together with being 1 of the few recession-proof careers, record numbers are applying to enter Nursing
    7. No-one is denying that a large majority of frontline staff have done a brilliant job. But keeping people healthy is the job. The Army don't demand pay rises when they are sent to war-it is part of the job

    Over the last year, NHS staff have done a brilliant job. Should they get a 1-off bonus? Yes. Should they get a pay rise? Yes. Should they get a massive pay rise? No.

    Finally, note how it is always the top earners (doctors) and the middle earners (nurses) who demand pay rises.

    Whereas the lower paid-the porters, the carers, seem less of a priority. Even though they have worked just as hard.

    Putting aside whether they deserve it or not.
    I suppose they have every right to be disappointed if they feel they were promised 2.1%, and are now set to receive less than half of that.


    "Tory MPs voted for 2.1%. The government budgeted for 2.1% and it was passed in legislation because the spending plans for the NHS came to the House of Commons and it went through the Commons - every Tory MP voted for 2.1% in January last year.


    How much does a nurse earn?

    The average nurse salary is £25,578 within the UK. Fully qualified nurses can expect to earn at least £22,000 rising to over £28,000 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. A nurse salary rises when new responsibilities are taken on such as ward sister, ward manager or team leader position.


    What is the average salary of a registered nurse?

    An entry-level Registered Nurse (RN) with less than 1 year experience can expect to earn an average total compensation (includes tips, bonus, and overtime pay) of £22,902 based on 190 salaries. An early career Registered Nurse (RN) with 1-4 years of experience earns an average total compensation of £23,767 based on 1,269 salaries.



    The NHS 1% Pay Rise Calculator
    Find out how much your NHS Pay will increase if the 1% pay rise goes ahead.

    The NHS salary for Band 3 with 2 years experience:

    £21,142 per annum
    1% will increase your NHS Salary to:

    £21,353.42 per annum
    That's a pay rise of:

    £4.07 per week

    https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
    That is totally misleading.

    You cannot say that an average nurse is Newly Qualified with less than 1 years' service. Because the average Nurse is a lot older, with a lot more experience.
    As the article you quote actually says, the average nurses pay is between £33-35K. And that figure was from the largest Nursing Union (the RCN)

    To start with a simple example, you receive a band uplift of just under 10% for achieving 2 years' service. So that equates to a 6% p.a pay rise if you add the 1%p.a to it. The only people getting just 1% are the people already at the top of the pay band.

    Then there is the simple fact that Nursing is not a 9-5 job. If (as the vast majority do) you work your fair share of nights, Bank Holidays etc, pay for those days is enhanced by 30-60%. Then there is weighting according to where you work.

    Yes, I get that MPs voted for 2.1%. Before the world changed. And budget constraints with them. Which would you prefer? Halving of 1 element of your pay rises, or losing your job, as has happened to pretty much everyone in other industries (such as hospitality)?
    I am not arguing about the nurses average wage.
    I merely included some examples that show that many nurses earn far below the average.
    I still think that anyone that is given less than half the pay rise they were promised is likely to be disappointed.
    You allude to the effects of the pandemic as the reason for the reduction.
    When the part that the front line NHS staff have played must make it thar much more galling.
    The way you big up the nurses pay makes the NHS staff shortages all the more difficult to understand.
    The track and trace investment could have paid for the higher increase for the next 74 years.
    If some people didn't earn less, and some more, it wouldn't be an average.

    Pay rises not on merit-just for being there.
    Bound to be "disappointed"-just not as much as the thousands who lost their jobs.
    We have spent £billions of money due to the pandemic. You think any other people are getting huge pay rises?

    I'm not "bigging up" nurse's pay-I'm saying what it is. It takes years to train Nurses-a degree for starters-so there is a time lag. Fact remains record numbers are now training.

    Track and trace was largely a waste. but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of worthy causes for limited money.

    Soldiers don't demand pay increases for winning wars. And they don't threaten to go on strike.
    I am well aware of how averages are calculated, thanks.
    Although I dont think that you should ignore those at the lower end of the pay scale that will suffer the most.
    My thoughts on this are very clear.
    They were promised 2.1%, but may only receive less than half of that.
    Although this government performing another humiliating u-turn would not come as a surprise to many.
    It must seem like a kick in the nuts for so many of them.
    The Thursday night clapping must seem so far away.
    I think we are completely letting down those that many still consider heroes.
    As far as the recruitment is concerned they still appear to be 40,000 short, and have been for many years.
    The record numbers that are currently in training will be at the very bottom of the pay scale.
    There are also record numbers that want to leave the NHS.
    I dont think you can ignore the austerity measures that affected them.
    It is quite silly to alienate these people, as the pandemic is not over, and they have lots of catching up to do.




  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
    edited March 2021
    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    HAYSIE said:

    Essexphil said:

    I have to say I get rather tired of the annual demand for massive pay rises for Doctors and Nurses. No-one else these days is "insulted" by a pay rise. The papers never let the facts get in the way of a good story. Some points to note:-

    1. The average Nurse now earns between £33-35,000 p.a
    2. The average GP? £65,000
    3. The average Consultant? About £100,000
    4. The supposed "1%" conveniently ignores 1 important fact. Most NHS Medical posts have salary bands, so there are automatic pay increases to reward seniority/length of service
    5. There are over 2 million people employed by the NHS. Any pay rise has to be paid by the rest of us. As well as the considerable other benefits, such as the Final Salary Pension Schemes
    6. Supply and Demand is ignored. Due to the previous pay rises, together with being 1 of the few recession-proof careers, record numbers are applying to enter Nursing
    7. No-one is denying that a large majority of frontline staff have done a brilliant job. But keeping people healthy is the job. The Army don't demand pay rises when they are sent to war-it is part of the job

    Over the last year, NHS staff have done a brilliant job. Should they get a 1-off bonus? Yes. Should they get a pay rise? Yes. Should they get a massive pay rise? No.

    Finally, note how it is always the top earners (doctors) and the middle earners (nurses) who demand pay rises.

    Whereas the lower paid-the porters, the carers, seem less of a priority. Even though they have worked just as hard.

    Putting aside whether they deserve it or not.
    I suppose they have every right to be disappointed if they feel they were promised 2.1%, and are now set to receive less than half of that.


    "Tory MPs voted for 2.1%. The government budgeted for 2.1% and it was passed in legislation because the spending plans for the NHS came to the House of Commons and it went through the Commons - every Tory MP voted for 2.1% in January last year.


    How much does a nurse earn?

    The average nurse salary is £25,578 within the UK. Fully qualified nurses can expect to earn at least £22,000 rising to over £28,000 on Band 5 of the NHS Agenda for Change Pay Rates. A nurse salary rises when new responsibilities are taken on such as ward sister, ward manager or team leader position.


    What is the average salary of a registered nurse?

    An entry-level Registered Nurse (RN) with less than 1 year experience can expect to earn an average total compensation (includes tips, bonus, and overtime pay) of £22,902 based on 190 salaries. An early career Registered Nurse (RN) with 1-4 years of experience earns an average total compensation of £23,767 based on 1,269 salaries.



    The NHS 1% Pay Rise Calculator
    Find out how much your NHS Pay will increase if the 1% pay rise goes ahead.

    The NHS salary for Band 3 with 2 years experience:

    £21,142 per annum
    1% will increase your NHS Salary to:

    £21,353.42 per annum
    That's a pay rise of:

    £4.07 per week

    https://www.nurses.co.uk/careers-hub/nursing-pay-guide/
    That is totally misleading.

    You cannot say that an average nurse is Newly Qualified with less than 1 years' service. Because the average Nurse is a lot older, with a lot more experience.
    As the article you quote actually says, the average nurses pay is between £33-35K. And that figure was from the largest Nursing Union (the RCN)

    To start with a simple example, you receive a band uplift of just under 10% for achieving 2 years' service. So that equates to a 6% p.a pay rise if you add the 1%p.a to it. The only people getting just 1% are the people already at the top of the pay band.

    Then there is the simple fact that Nursing is not a 9-5 job. If (as the vast majority do) you work your fair share of nights, Bank Holidays etc, pay for those days is enhanced by 30-60%. Then there is weighting according to where you work.

    Yes, I get that MPs voted for 2.1%. Before the world changed. And budget constraints with them. Which would you prefer? Halving of 1 element of your pay rises, or losing your job, as has happened to pretty much everyone in other industries (such as hospitality)?
    I am not arguing about the nurses average wage.
    I merely included some examples that show that many nurses earn far below the average.
    I still think that anyone that is given less than half the pay rise they were promised is likely to be disappointed.
    You allude to the effects of the pandemic as the reason for the reduction.
    When the part that the front line NHS staff have played must make it thar much more galling.
    The way you big up the nurses pay makes the NHS staff shortages all the more difficult to understand.
    The track and trace investment could have paid for the higher increase for the next 74 years.
    If some people didn't earn less, and some more, it wouldn't be an average.

    Pay rises not on merit-just for being there.
    Bound to be "disappointed"-just not as much as the thousands who lost their jobs.
    We have spent £billions of money due to the pandemic. You think any other people are getting huge pay rises?

    I'm not "bigging up" nurse's pay-I'm saying what it is. It takes years to train Nurses-a degree for starters-so there is a time lag. Fact remains record numbers are now training.

    Track and trace was largely a waste. but there are hundreds, if not thousands, of worthy causes for limited money.

    Soldiers don't demand pay increases for winning wars. And they don't threaten to go on strike.
    This corrects some of your points, and puts others in perspective.

    Boris Johnson Caught Out in Lies About Nurses' Pay


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D65eXaCxBOE
  • Options
    HAYSIEHAYSIE Member Posts: 32,534
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