It’s dawning on Conservative MPs the vaccine is not the all-conquering ‘cavalry’ Boris Johnson promised
What goes around comes around. If the vaccination campaign hits real trouble, it will not be easy for ministers who have taken ownership of it to point the finger of blame elsewhere.
Chris Whitty placed on 'resignation watch' as he and SAGE were livid with Boris Johnson
A senior source on the SAGE committee told The Times: "I don't have sympathy for the Government making the same mistake twice.
"We told them quite clearly what they need to do for it to work. They don't do that... It's been wishful thinking all the way through. I think that probably characterises Boris Johnson, frankly."
Revealed: Vaccine passports will be a short-term 'bridge to freedom' before full herd immunity by this autumn (as 63% of voters back their use)
Ministers are planning to use vaccine passports as a short-term 'bridge to freedom' before full herd immunity is achieved in the autumn, The Mail on Sunday understands. Under the plans, all Covid-related restrictions would be relaxed as planned under Boris Johnson's roadmap on June 21 - but with the passports allowing the return of mass public gatherings in the summer. This would include the return of capacity crowds for the start of the Premier League season in August. The use of the passports is likely to be restricted to public gatherings such as sporting events or theatre productions, as the logisitics of using them for pubs and restaurants are proving to be formidable. An exclusive Mail on Sunday poll (left) has found the use of the vaccine passport documents was backed by 63 per cent of respondents, with 25 per cent opposed.
The argument in favour of them is so full of contradictions. Either vaccines are as effective as the data suggests, in which case we're already at/very close to herd immunity and people who have received their jabs are well protected from serious illness. Or they're not particularly effective, in which case, proof that you've had one is meaningless.
There's also the fact that Covid is a seasonal virus that largely disappears in the summer. Deaths were down to about 10 a day last summer, long before we had a vaccine. So why do we need a bridge during the summer.
It's difficult to escape the conclusion that this is an opportunistic power grab.
The argument in favour of them is so full of contradictions. Either vaccines are as effective as the data suggests, in which case we're already at/very close to herd immunity and people who have received their jabs are well protected from serious illness. Or they're not particularly effective, in which case, proof that you've had one is meaningless.
There's also the fact that Covid is a seasonal virus that largely disappears in the summer. Deaths were down to about 10 a day last summer, long before we had a vaccine. So why do we need a bridge during the summer.
It's difficult to escape the conclusion that this is an opportunistic power grab.
3 interesting and thought-provoking paragraphs there.
Vaccines are as effective as the data suggests. Which is considerable, but not total. People are well protected from serious illness. What we do not know, and are not being told, is how long for. We are told "roughly 6 months"-but that is not sufficiently precise. And how long before the protection starts dropping significantly? 3 months? 4 months? 5months? Which vaccine is better at 5 months? Or 8 months? Because no-one is going to convince me that this is not being worked out in detail. Herd immunity, like vaccines, is part of the answer. But not the whole answer.
Covid has, so far at least, largely disappeared during the Summer. We don't need a bridge during the Summer. What we do need to do is to give the 3 non-priority groups stuff during the Summer, before Priority groups may need a booster jab, before any 3rd wave etc. Before a new Variant. Proof that a significant 3rd wave is extremely unlikely to happen before August in the UK is the commitment to provide resources to low-risk groups until then. Although you will note no similar timed commitments for any 2nd jab. Regrettably, the EU does not have that luxury, due to the current levels of infection.
"Opportunistic power grab"? Big Pharma always follows the money. This is all about where the profits lie-which is where the boosters are. Because "at cost" is only temporary. I see a Company which no other Company can currently compete with on price. And lots of information presented to show why the World really needs to give massive Companies many £billions more than the cheapest one. I see opposition politicians throughout the EU seeking to use the crisis to their advantage. But that, like vaccines etc is far from the whole answer-this is not primarily a power grab.
I should have added that my belief is that the jabs are effective.
My ‘power grab’ comment was referring to the opportunistic increase of state power. I can’t see any justification for domestic passports on health grounds. Aside from the reasons we’ve mentioned, it will also be the case that we’ll spend the vast majority of the time mixing with people who have potentially not been vaccinated anyway; meeting friends and family, going to the shop, taking public transport etc. So why are they being brought in? Here are a few possible reasons that I can think of:
1) As an incentive for younger people to get vaccinated. (Seems unlikely because most young people seem happy to have one)
2) The government are worried that many people will be too scared to resume normal life without them. (There must be simpler ways to do this. Tone down the messaging for a start)
3) We’re just blindly copying what Israel have done. (Definitely a possibility. Blindly copying others seems to be the story of the pandemic. However, a cursory glance at Israel reveals that ‘Green Passes’ are already largely redundant)
4) The Test &Trace app was an embarrassingly expensive white elephant, so it’s being repurposed in the hope of saving face. (Maybe)
5) There are a lot of people in government, Whitehall, SAGE, think tanks (e.g. Tony Blair’s) etc. who quite like the idea of biosecurity ID cards and have seen an opportunity to bring them in. (🤔)
Unsurprisingly, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Companies do not get to have turnover in the 10s of $Billions without knowing how to do business.
The last article is misleading. It's not Biden's inner circle that has close ties to Vaccine Makers-every US Government in living memory has. It's not a left/right or Rep/Dem thing. It's an every single 1 of them thing.
Unsurprisingly, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Companies do not get to have turnover in the 10s of $Billions without knowing how to do business.
The last article is misleading. It's not Biden's inner circle that has close ties to Vaccine Makers-every US Government in living memory has. It's not a left/right or Rep/Dem thing. It's an every single 1 of them thing.
Do you think that there are too many unknowns? Can you predict the make up of say an average pub full of customers? Could you predict the risk involved? The risk obviously increases when people gather inside. There are so many categories of people involved. Without vaccine passports during the next few months, the customers and staff, in a pub may include,
Those that have refused a vaccine. Those that arent being vaccinated. Those that have recently received one vaccination, and are not fully protected. Those that have been vaccinated once, 5 or 6 months before, and are reaching the end of their protection.
I dont understand the risk involved, particularly for the most at risk people.
I also read an article recently in The Express. The article quoted efficacy rates for the various vaccines. Just taking the AZ, the article quotes the efficacy of one dose at 64%. Two doses at 70%. Yet tests show that half a dose, followed by a full dose increases the efficacy to around 90%.
So are they doing this? This is not clear. I have received one dose of the AZ. At least I think I have. Or was it half a dose?
Unsurprisingly, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Companies do not get to have turnover in the 10s of $Billions without knowing how to do business.
The last article is misleading. It's not Biden's inner circle that has close ties to Vaccine Makers-every US Government in living memory has. It's not a left/right or Rep/Dem thing. It's an every single 1 of them thing.
Do you think that there are too many unknowns? Can you predict the make up of say an average pub full of customers? Could you predict the risk involved? The risk obviously increases when people gather inside. There are so many categories of people involved. Without vaccine passports during the next few months, the customers and staff, in a pub may include,
Those that have refused a vaccine. Those that arent being vaccinated. Those that have recently received one vaccination, and are not fully protected. Those that have been vaccinated once, 5 or 6 months before, and are reaching the end of their protection.
I dont understand the risk involved, particularly for the most at risk people.
I also read an article recently in The Express. The article quoted efficacy rates for the various vaccines. Just taking the AZ, the article quotes the efficacy of one dose at 64%. Two doses at 70%. Yet tests show that half a dose, followed by a full dose increases the efficacy to around 90%.
So are they doing this? This is not clear. I have received one dose of the AZ. At least I think I have. Or was it half a dose?
Older drinkers risk discrimination says charity, after pub refuses to serve man without smartphone
Older drinkers are at risk of discrimination in pubs because they do not have smartphones to order food and drinks on an app, a charity has warned.
Pubs and restaurants reopened on Monday this week after months of lockdown, and many have turned to smartphone apps to allow customers to order without leaving their tables or speaking to staff.
But some venues have made ordering via app mandatory, and have refused to serve customers who do not have a smartphone.
The argument in favour of them is so full of contradictions. Either vaccines are as effective as the data suggests, in which case we're already at/very close to herd immunity and people who have received their jabs are well protected from serious illness. Or they're not particularly effective, in which case, proof that you've had one is meaningless.
There's also the fact that Covid is a seasonal virus that largely disappears in the summer. Deaths were down to about 10 a day last summer, long before we had a vaccine. So why do we need a bridge during the summer.
It's difficult to escape the conclusion that this is an opportunistic power grab.
3 interesting and thought-provoking paragraphs there.
Vaccines are as effective as the data suggests. Which is considerable, but not total. People are well protected from serious illness. What we do not know, and are not being told, is how long for. We are told "roughly 6 months"-but that is not sufficiently precise. And how long before the protection starts dropping significantly? 3 months? 4 months? 5months? Which vaccine is better at 5 months? Or 8 months? Because no-one is going to convince me that this is not being worked out in detail. Herd immunity, like vaccines, is part of the answer. But not the whole answer.
Covid has, so far at least, largely disappeared during the Summer. We don't need a bridge during the Summer. What we do need to do is to give the 3 non-priority groups stuff during the Summer, before Priority groups may need a booster jab, before any 3rd wave etc. Before a new Variant. Proof that a significant 3rd wave is extremely unlikely to happen before August in the UK is the commitment to provide resources to low-risk groups until then. Although you will note no similar timed commitments for any 2nd jab. Regrettably, the EU does not have that luxury, due to the current levels of infection.
"Opportunistic power grab"? Big Pharma always follows the money. This is all about where the profits lie-which is where the boosters are. Because "at cost" is only temporary. I see a Company which no other Company can currently compete with on price. And lots of information presented to show why the World really needs to give massive Companies many £billions more than the cheapest one. I see opposition politicians throughout the EU seeking to use the crisis to their advantage. But that, like vaccines etc is far from the whole answer-this is not primarily a power grab.
Science has proved Boris Johnson wrong – vaccines are reducing deaths and cases
Boris Johnson raised eyebrows on Tuesday when he suggested that the reduction in Covid infections, hospital admissions and deaths had not been achieved by the vaccination programme, with the lockdown doing "the bulk of the work".
Thankfully, less than 24 hours later, science had proved the Prime Minister wrong.
Really strange noises coming from Johnson about the vaccines. It might be him trying to nudge people into acting more cautiously, but it seems reckless to potentially undermine the vaccines like this.
I also wonder if he has half an eye on the future enquiry, when questions about the efficacy of lockdowns and the enormous damage they do will be raised.
Comments
What goes around comes around. If the vaccination campaign hits real trouble, it will not be easy for ministers who have taken ownership of it to point the finger of blame elsewhere.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/it-s-dawning-on-conservative-mps-the-vaccine-is-not-the-all-conquering-cavalry-boris-johnson-promised/ar-BB1fosQk?ocid=msedgntp
A senior source on the SAGE committee told The Times: "I don't have sympathy for the Government making the same mistake twice.
"We told them quite clearly what they need to do for it to work. They don't do that... It's been wishful thinking all the way through. I think that probably characterises Boris Johnson, frankly."
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/chris-whitty-placed-on-resignation-watch-as-he-and-sage-were-livid-with-boris-johnson/ar-BB1fqcNP?ocid=msedgntp
Ministers are planning to use vaccine passports as a short-term 'bridge to freedom' before full herd immunity is achieved in the autumn, The Mail on Sunday understands. Under the plans, all Covid-related restrictions would be relaxed as planned under Boris Johnson's roadmap on June 21 - but with the passports allowing the return of mass public gatherings in the summer. This would include the return of capacity crowds for the start of the Premier League season in August. The use of the passports is likely to be restricted to public gatherings such as sporting events or theatre productions, as the logisitics of using them for pubs and restaurants are proving to be formidable. An exclusive Mail on Sunday poll (left) has found the use of the vaccine passport documents was backed by 63 per cent of respondents, with 25 per cent opposed.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9457611/Vaccine-passports-short-term-bridge-freedom-herd-immunity-autumn.html
Whatever it is.
There's also the fact that Covid is a seasonal virus that largely disappears in the summer. Deaths were down to about 10 a day last summer, long before we had a vaccine. So why do we need a bridge during the summer.
It's difficult to escape the conclusion that this is an opportunistic power grab.
The lateral flow tests have always been less sensitive.
Vaccines are as effective as the data suggests. Which is considerable, but not total. People are well protected from serious illness. What we do not know, and are not being told, is how long for. We are told "roughly 6 months"-but that is not sufficiently precise. And how long before the protection starts dropping significantly? 3 months? 4 months? 5months? Which vaccine is better at 5 months? Or 8 months? Because no-one is going to convince me that this is not being worked out in detail. Herd immunity, like vaccines, is part of the answer. But not the whole answer.
Covid has, so far at least, largely disappeared during the Summer. We don't need a bridge during the Summer. What we do need to do is to give the 3 non-priority groups stuff during the Summer, before Priority groups may need a booster jab, before any 3rd wave etc. Before a new Variant. Proof that a significant 3rd wave is extremely unlikely to happen before August in the UK is the commitment to provide resources to low-risk groups until then. Although you will note no similar timed commitments for any 2nd jab. Regrettably, the EU does not have that luxury, due to the current levels of infection.
"Opportunistic power grab"? Big Pharma always follows the money. This is all about where the profits lie-which is where the boosters are. Because "at cost" is only temporary. I see a Company which no other Company can currently compete with on price. And lots of information presented to show why the World really needs to give massive Companies many £billions more than the cheapest one.
I see opposition politicians throughout the EU seeking to use the crisis to their advantage.
But that, like vaccines etc is far from the whole answer-this is not primarily a power grab.
My ‘power grab’ comment was referring to the opportunistic increase of state power. I can’t see any justification for domestic passports on health grounds. Aside from the reasons we’ve mentioned, it will also be the case that we’ll spend the vast majority of the time mixing with people who have potentially not been vaccinated anyway; meeting friends and family, going to the shop, taking public transport etc. So why are they being brought in? Here are a few possible reasons that I can think of:
1) As an incentive for younger people to get vaccinated. (Seems unlikely because most young people seem happy to have one)
2) The government are worried that many people will be too scared to resume normal life without them. (There must be simpler ways to do this. Tone down the messaging for a start)
3) We’re just blindly copying what Israel have done. (Definitely a possibility. Blindly copying others seems to be the story of the pandemic. However, a cursory glance at Israel reveals that ‘Green Passes’ are already largely redundant)
4) The Test &Trace app was an embarrassingly expensive white elephant, so it’s being repurposed in the hope of saving face. (Maybe)
5) There are a lot of people in government, Whitehall, SAGE, think tanks (e.g. Tony Blair’s) etc. who quite like the idea of biosecurity ID cards and have seen an opportunity to bring them in. (🤔)
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9458673/Only-St-Vincent-residents-whove-Covid-jabs-evacuated-cruise-ships-PM-announces.html
Financial Times, April 24, 2016
https://www.ft.com/content/93374f4a-e538-11e5-a09b-1f8b0d268c39
Goldman Sachs asks in biotech research report: 'Is curing patients a sustainable business model?'
2018-04-11, CNBC News
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/goldman-asks-is-curing-patients-a-sustainable...
Pfizer CEO Sold Millions In Stock After Coronavirus Vaccine News, Raising Questions
CBS News, November 11, 2020
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/11/933957580/pfizer-ceo-sold-millions-in-stock...
Moderna executives hiked their stock sales after announcing positive vaccine trial
CBS News, July 21, 2020
https://www.wsj.com/articles/people-harmed-by-coronavirus-vaccines...
Biden's Inner Circle Maintains Close Ties to Vaccine Makers, Disclosures Reveal
2021-03-24, The Intercept
https://theintercept.com/2021/03/24/covid-vaccine-stocks-biden-conflict/
The last article is misleading. It's not Biden's inner circle that has close ties to Vaccine Makers-every US Government in living memory has. It's not a left/right or Rep/Dem thing. It's an every single 1 of them thing.
Can you predict the make up of say an average pub full of customers?
Could you predict the risk involved?
The risk obviously increases when people gather inside.
There are so many categories of people involved.
Without vaccine passports during the next few months, the customers and staff, in a pub may include,
Those that have refused a vaccine.
Those that arent being vaccinated.
Those that have recently received one vaccination, and are not fully protected.
Those that have been vaccinated once, 5 or 6 months before, and are reaching the end of their protection.
I dont understand the risk involved, particularly for the most at risk people.
I also read an article recently in The Express.
The article quoted efficacy rates for the various vaccines.
Just taking the AZ, the article quotes the efficacy of one dose at 64%.
Two doses at 70%.
Yet tests show that half a dose, followed by a full dose increases the efficacy to around 90%.
So are they doing this?
This is not clear.
I have received one dose of the AZ.
At least I think I have.
Or was it half a dose?
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1393104/Which-is-the-most-effective-Covid-vaccine-evg
Older drinkers are at risk of discrimination in pubs because they do not have smartphones to order food and drinks on an app, a charity has warned.
Pubs and restaurants reopened on Monday this week after months of lockdown, and many have turned to smartphone apps to allow customers to order without leaving their tables or speaking to staff.
But some venues have made ordering via app mandatory, and have refused to serve customers who do not have a smartphone.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/older-drinkers-risk-discrimination-says-164849785.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplink
Boris Johnson raised eyebrows on Tuesday when he suggested that the reduction in Covid infections, hospital admissions and deaths had not been achieved by the vaccination programme, with the lockdown doing "the bulk of the work".
Thankfully, less than 24 hours later, science had proved the Prime Minister wrong.
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/science-proves-boris-johnson-wrong-171126838.html
I also wonder if he has half an eye on the future enquiry, when questions about the efficacy of lockdowns and the enormous damage they do will be raised.