I was interested to read that for Tikay the poker bug is omnipresent. Is this the same for most regular players on here?
For me it’s totally gone. My poker journey started around 20 years ago. Live poker was where i began and that still holds an interest for me.
Maybe it’s a combination of things that have led me to where i am now. Coronavirus obviously stopped live poker for a period of time. My last live experience was SPT Nottingham in the Autumn before lockdown. I think maybe age makes us a little more responsible as well. Going way back to the beginning my buy ins were far far higher than they are today. I’d play 5 nights a week at Gala Nottingham. Monday was £20 pot limit rebuy. Tuesday was student night and a £10 buy in with 3 rebuys maximum. Wednesday a £30 freeze. Thursday a £50 2 rebuy max buy in and Friday another £20 pot limit unlimited rebuy. It used to add up to a fair amount but i didn’t care Maybe it’s like the golfer who gets the yips as he gets older. I’m thinking about the cost and probably talking decisions accordingly when i’m playing which is obviously never going to end well
There’s also the fact that i’m not as good as i was. Never a star but i used to do ok. Now i still make a little bit but not enough to make it worth it
I got into dyms and in the days of 30% rakeback regardless of amount played plus raketherake bonuses i’d be able to make reasonable side income
I also have more responsibility and don’t feel i can spare the time so much. Certainly not to study.
I never ever thought that i’d fall out of love with poker. I assumed that i’d play forever. I still will play but the urge doesn’t hit me very often
Can you see it changing for yourselves or will poker always be a big part of your lives?
Groggsters response was really good. I think when you play and money won is a bonus your mindset is a lot different than thinking I need to make £x or dont want to play and lose. It moves from fun hobby to more of a part time job/chore.
It doesn't have to be you have got worse but others have got better so you find it hard to make the same money you once did. Also, our hobbys/interests change as we get older. Presumably some of the lure of live was the interaction/banter and if your interests change it might be that you don't enjoy so much of the social side of live games.
I definitely play less than at any point in the past 10-12 years due to in real life stuff. I've realised I can't do much better than breakeven on the tougher sites without doing a lot of work on my game, but I just don't have the time to improve. Nor do I really want to put in the time to improve - I work long hours and don't want to spend my spare time "working" as well. So I'm happy logging into Sky every now and then when I have an evening free.
Do some people in the discord group discuss hands in play? Or how to play against a particular opponent?
Of course hands in play are not discussed, hands will be occasionally asked for feedback from various different people of all capabilities from time to time usually the following day, the link is above for you and anyone else to check out, there's nothing to hide in there, a lot of silly people talking nonsense about all things in life with lots of really good people in there, new members are always welcome to get involved
Do some people in the discord group discuss hands in play? Or how to play against a particular opponent?
Certainly not. And perhaps it's worth noting, if @gregkdy82 is going to insist on making ridiculous claims about what goes on in there, that very little strategy in general is discussed relative to what else is discussed. There are dedicated channels where people can post a hand history and ask for feedback, and that's about it; the rest of it is conversations about things around poker, and various other miscellaneous things like word games, sports, music, food, the occasional meme, and so on.
The Discord server is there for socializing and open to all who are capable of following a small number of rules, not a top secret coaching group.
Do some people in the discord group discuss hands in play? Or how to play against a particular opponent?
Of course hands in play are not discussed, hands will be occasionally asked for feedback from various different people of all capabilities from time to time usually the following day, the link is above for you and anyone else to check out, there's nothing to hide in there, a lot of silly people talking nonsense about all things in life with lots of really good people in there, new members are always welcome to get involved
Thanks for the reply about my first question. I’ll pass on the invite, I play to pass the time and watch tv whist chatting to the good lady, so it’s not something I am interested in, I was curious as to the nature of the “ poker strategy “ chat, and if it is worth me carrying on playing here.
Its amazing you guys can actually express how online poker is treating you quite candidly here and that you all seem to be having quite a negative downswing on poker experiences.
This is not conveyed when speaking to me, however, when in those instances online poker is the bomb and im so far off the mark in thinking things are not what they used to be....
Can't begin to attempt to understand that and will not bother.
You 'seem' like a very unreasonable individual and a good few on the forum have 'give you time' to challenge your thinking. You are continuing to jump into threads talking rubbish and changing the subject. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's maybe necessary.
Will not continue or give you anymore of 'my time' as it's a complete waste of time.
I have no clue on your angle, you have a picture of a Gorilla in your profile pic, you talk nonsense, you are agitating and being antagonistic towards decent seeming people on the forum and you seem to like to have an internet fight and might be quite bored. If the shoe fits go with it and show a little humility.
Going to be somewhat curt now mate - If you believe you have an issue I hope you are working through it. That's about as nice as I can be with you as you are in pain in the backside.
Good bit of variety on where we are all at. I am enjoying online poker at the moment, Live - not played in a Casino for about 6 months or more and in no hurry to. Convenience and don't have the drive to get into casinos or home games right now. It's a whole night and prefer to dip in and out on Sky mostly.
Not tied to the laptop most nights I have time to play as not at the business end of tourneys much these days :P
Are you allowed in any casinos?
Just noticed this waller02, I don't go out the flat as much as I used to. Have not been banned from any casinos, simply do not enjoy them the same nowadays and can be a bit of a hermit when the mood strikes. Casinos cost money and there is drink available at them plus don't have the patience for it now (people and the game itself) in a live environment.
Self banned from home game too, one which a mate runs and emailed him to say I 'may be back in 3 months but no guarantees'. He runs a great game by the way and used to play badminton with him years back.
Do some people in the discord group discuss hands in play? Or how to play against a particular opponent?
Valid concern - but no, and no.
The Discord server is open to anyone who follows the server rules - These rules are currently listed as:
While things like "Don't discuss hands in play" (or 'ghosting') aren't explicitly mentioned, they're obviously covered under the rules of every single Poker site, and don't need to be explicitly included.
There are currently around 150 people in the Discord server, anyone is able to join, and anyone who does join the server can view it in its entirety, including message history. Thus, it would be pretty dumb for someone to break the rules of any Poker site (including Sky Poker) in any of the text channels.
There are voice chat channels, which are mostly used for casual games (e.g. Among Us; Codenames) and Friday/Saturday night banter.
Voice chat is also used occasionally for hand history reviews/discussion. In my experience, information shared about other players in one of those sessions is the same as what would be shared when posting a hand history on the forum (or in a text channel on Discord), where it's relevant to the hand in question (e.g. "Villain is spewy, so I would normally fold this but maybe it's a call now?" or "Villain showed down X in hand 1, how does this affect my decision in hand 2?") - But that's not "how to play against X".
the main reason I stopped is unlike the dyms on here they have gotten harder. Players who used to be pretty pathetic are now better than me. This is what happens if you've only a small player pool and a good percentage of them are in their own private group sharing information and paying for coaching from each other.
I don't think this is accurate - Regardless of where you play, the games as a whole are getting significantly tougher. This hasn't happened in DYMs (including on Sky) because:
1) Very few sites offer these games due to collusion (especially on larger sites with global player pools)
2) Generally speaking, SNGs are less popular than both MTTs and cash; Multi-table SNGs are more popular than single table SNGs; DYMs/DONs are less popular than single table SNGs. The popularity of Sky's DYMs are an exception to the rule.
3) There's a limit to how much someone can win in DYMs - After RB, the best hourly win rates on here in DYMs will be comparable to winning regs at 20-50nl.
Because of #1-3, there's no point in someone making coaching videos or study tools for DYMs (or DONs): - They'd make the games tougher for everyone (including themselves) in a limited player pool, costing themselves money - The limited target audience means they wouldn't be able to make much money to begin with - They wouldn't make enough money to make it worthwhile (time investment; making their own games tougher) - Once the games get tougher, people won't pay £x/month subscription for something to help them win at some tiny ROI when they can just play cash/MTTs.
Suddenly, most DYM training/coaching businesses fall flat on their ar$e - and that's without taking into account that sites are more likely to remove DYMs from their site than any other game variant.
If you compare that to cash/MTTs: - There are larger player pools = bigger target audience = more £££ - More (all) sites offering MTTs/cash, spreading liquidity out (helping others improve impacts your winrate less, as the players you're coaching are responsible for a negligible amount of total liquidity)
tl;dr - DYMs haven't got tougher compared to other formats because it's not in any individual's best interests to help others improve. That isn't the case for MTTs - coaching, staking, training sites, creating software, MTT Twitch streams etc. are all viable sources of income for people which also improve the standard of others in the player pool (to various extents).
MTTs getting tougher has nothing to do with a "private group sharing information and paying for coaching from each other".
Firstly, the Discord isn't private.
As for sharing information and coaching: you're playing on a site that used to have a TV channel where people could send in hand requests for analysis more than a decade ago, and there's literally a whole 2+2 marketplace where people have been buying/selling coaching and staking for the last 14 years - So not only has the horse bolted, but you've only realised because it sh*gged a mare and the filly is in the 2:50 at Cheltenham tomorrow. Bit late to close the barn door...
I watched that interview matt bates done with the baldy lad on twitch a while back where he was giving it 'this guy does my maths for me' 'chickenmelts phoned me about this theory' etc etc. I am very much an every man for himself type of guy so I've no time for this bs. It sickened me that this stuff went on and put me right off playing here. What chance have I got of getting some mtt cash as a non educated £2 dym player when this is what I'm up against? However I have started an account on another site (GG poker) and use it solely for playing mtts this has invigorated me as I too was getting fed up of poker again. Maybe this is something you could consider?
As 'the maths guy' that Matt referred to in this video: I am occasionally (maybe a couple of times a year) sent a hand history involving a close decision, usually where satellite/DYM skills are relevant - e.g. "I think I should've folded this, thoughts?"
It's no different to posting a hand history on the forum, aside from the fact he's asking one person for an opinion, instead of an entire community.
I get asked non-strategy and non-Poker maths things far more often tbh - The most common things are probably cricket stats, and occasional RB/promo questions (e.g. "If I get the maximum tickets in the prize draw, how likely am I to win a prize?" or "I have 28k poker points, is it +EV to punt Russian Roulettes until 30k for the next RB tier?". Obviously the answer to both of those questions is 'Yes because you're Matt f***ing Bates'.)
As for the Chicknmelt/study thing: The vast majority of people taking Poker seriously will be discussing hand histories and strategy with somebody, because it's mutually beneficial - Plugging numbers into a solver or looking through your hand history for hours is much more bearable when you're not doing it on your own. There's also cognitive biases when you're reviewing your own hands or learning strategy, so having other people to discuss those things with prevents you from overlooking your mistakes, or thinking you understand some new strategy concept when you actually don't.
The only difference is that on Sky, there's members of the community discussing things with each other, whereas on other sites it's more likely to be a horse discussing hands with their backer.
Honestly, I'd be more worried about what happens on other sites - you won't know the regs as well in a larger player pool; staking is more common elsewhere and increases the likelihood of dodgy things happening when there's financial gain from doing so (e.g. backers taking over for their horse on a FT, ghosting, note/hole card sharing when on a table together); many countries are more likely to attract cheats than the UK due to socio-economic factors; buying/selling of HUD databases; etc.
If people openly talking about discussing strategy with others puts you off playing on Sky, you're going to have some nasty surprises when you take your money elsewhere.
With regard to the last paragraph i think you may have misjudged things a little There is no real extra advantage for anyone in the discord group. People have been talking about poker and helping one another forever. There are really decent people in there who enjoy poker You could always join the group and potentially benefit from the advice of some really good players?
Hey @jac35 sorry to hear your not enjoying the game anymore.
When I started playing on here 3 years ago that was me coming back from a 3 year break of not playing for pretty similar reasons to which you are considering stopping for. When I started out here I was pretty skeptical about how long I would last. At that time yourself and the player @Mayhem357 were doing well in the dyms making decent profits. Seeing this inspired by the me to stick with it as I thought to myself I can do as good as these guys and after a while I was. I then found this forum started reading tikays results thread and there you were popping up on it left right and centre. I remember seeing you had won the £33 bounty hunter on a Sunday night and being well jealous so it's fair to say you inspired me to start getting back into mtt play too. When I had my best mtt win rather than be jealous you were first to congratulate me. I really appreciated that. You are a good guy jac35. Even though you are as tough an op as there is in the dyms I'm sorry to see you hardly play them anymore. I enjoyed battling it out with you and always enjoyed your responses to my snidey chat box comments ☺
I don't play the mtts here anymore. Partly because I've a different job that l need to get up at 5am for but the main reason I stopped is unlike the dyms on here they have gotten harder. Players who used to be pretty pathetic are now better than me. This is what happens if you've only a small player pool and a good percentage of them are in their own private group sharing information and paying for coaching from each other. I watched that interview matt bates done with the baldy lad on twitch a while back where he was giving it 'this guy does my maths for me' 'chickenmelts phoned me about this theory' etc etc. I am very much an every man for himself type of guy so I've no time for this bs. It sickened me that this stuff went on and put me right off playing here. What chance have I got of getting some mtt cash as a non educated £2 dym player when this is what I'm up against? However I have started an account on another site (GG poker) and use it solely for playing mtts this has invigorated me as I too was getting fed up of poker again. Maybe this is something you could consider?
Thanks for the kind words Greg
With regard to the last paragraph i think you may have misjudged things a little There is no real extra advantage for anyone in the discord group. People have been talking about poker and helping one another forever. There are really decent people in there who enjoy poker You could always join the group and potentially benefit from the advice of some really good players?
Greg
As a few others have said, pretty surprised with what you have said, you seem quite shocked that people that play a game for money would work hard at that game and want to improve and get better. People will talk to people with similar interests/passions about those interests whether it be football or poker or some cracking trains and bridges.
The MTT games have got harder on here as numbers have fallen in MTTs. Numbers aside, games will get harder in a for money game like poker that will always be the case as people want to improve and make money. If you aren't improving then you are going to get worse results. As long as you feel you are getting value for the money you spend on poker that is fine. If you want to make money from poker then thinking you don't have to do any work is a bit delusional. Also, just because people discuss strategy/hands off the tables doesn't mean they can apply strategies correctly in game.
What you are saying about the discord group is way off. As far as I am aware is no more or less coaching in that group than elsewhere. There aren't many players that play for a living/take poker seriously that don't have people they discuss hands and strategy with. In some situations its friends who are both passionate about poker helping each other, in other instances its someone paying for coaching. This has been going on for years and isn't sky exclusive. The forum has a section for discussing hands, I know its not very active now but do you think that is because people have stopped discussing hands or because they do it elsewhere. Loads of the discord chat is non poker related.
Playing on another site wont mean you get away from this. Given DYMs are your primary game I am pretty surprised that the games remain so beatable given they are one of the most simple to learn/study for.
Its amazing you guys can actually express how online poker is treating you quite candidly here and that you all seem to be having quite a negative downswing on poker experiences.
This is not conveyed when speaking to me, however, when in those instances online poker is the bomb and im so far off the mark in thinking things are not what they used to be....
Can't begin to attempt to understand that and will not bother.
You 'seem' like a very unreasonable individual and a good few on the forum have 'give you time' to challenge your thinking. You are continuing to jump into threads talking rubbish and changing the subject. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's maybe necessary.
Will not continue or give you anymore of 'my time' as it's a complete waste of time.
I have no clue on your angle, you have a picture of a Gorilla in your profile pic, you talk nonsense, you are agitating and being antagonistic towards decent seeming people on the forum and you seem to like to have an internet fight and might be quite bored. If the shoe fits go with it and show a little humility.
Going to be somewhat curt now mate - If you believe you have an issue I hope you are working through it. That's about as nice as I can be with you as you are in pain in the backside.
Your a bunch of losing players, given up for 3 years players, rarely play players, on here to discuss other sports players.... i think this is the big underlying problem we have here.
Discuss something you qualified to discuss.... like Gorillas....
Your a bunch of losing players, given up for 3 years players, rarely play players, on here to discuss other sports players.... i think this is the big underlying problem we have here.
Discuss something you qualified to discuss.... like Gorillas....
Comments
It doesn't have to be you have got worse but others have got better so you find it hard to make the same money you once did. Also, our hobbys/interests change as we get older. Presumably some of the lure of live was the interaction/banter and if your interests change it might be that you don't enjoy so much of the social side of live games.
Here is an invite link if anybody, even Greg, wants to pop in and check it out: https://discord.gg/AgduvbyC
Playing lots of tables right now.
Will look tomorrow.
The Discord server is there for socializing and open to all who are capable of following a small number of rules, not a top secret coaching group.
I’ll pass on the invite, I play to pass the time and watch tv whist chatting to the good lady, so it’s not something I am interested in, I was curious as to the nature of the “ poker strategy “ chat, and if it is worth me carrying on playing here.
You 'seem' like a very unreasonable individual and a good few on the forum have 'give you time' to challenge your thinking. You are continuing to jump into threads talking rubbish and changing the subject. Sorry if that sounds harsh but it's maybe necessary.
Will not continue or give you anymore of 'my time' as it's a complete waste of time.
I have no clue on your angle, you have a picture of a Gorilla in your profile pic, you talk nonsense, you are agitating and being antagonistic towards decent seeming people on the forum and you seem to like to have an internet fight and might be quite bored. If the shoe fits go with it and show a little humility.
Going to be somewhat curt now mate - If you believe you have an issue I hope you are working through it. That's about as nice as I can be with you as you are in pain in the backside.
Self banned from home game too, one which a mate runs and emailed him to say I 'may be back in 3 months but no guarantees'. He runs a great game by the way and used to play badminton with him years back.
Hope you are ok mate.
Cammy
The Discord server is open to anyone who follows the server rules - These rules are currently listed as:
While things like "Don't discuss hands in play" (or 'ghosting') aren't explicitly mentioned, they're obviously covered under the rules of every single Poker site, and don't need to be explicitly included.
There are currently around 150 people in the Discord server, anyone is able to join, and anyone who does join the server can view it in its entirety, including message history. Thus, it would be pretty dumb for someone to break the rules of any Poker site (including Sky Poker) in any of the text channels.
There are voice chat channels, which are mostly used for casual games (e.g. Among Us; Codenames) and Friday/Saturday night banter.
Voice chat is also used occasionally for hand history reviews/discussion. In my experience, information shared about other players in one of those sessions is the same as what would be shared when posting a hand history on the forum (or in a text channel on Discord), where it's relevant to the hand in question (e.g. "Villain is spewy, so I would normally fold this but maybe it's a call now?" or "Villain showed down X in hand 1, how does this affect my decision in hand 2?") - But that's not "how to play against X".
I don't think this is accurate - Regardless of where you play, the games as a whole are getting significantly tougher. This hasn't happened in DYMs (including on Sky) because:
1) Very few sites offer these games due to collusion (especially on larger sites with global player pools)
2) Generally speaking, SNGs are less popular than both MTTs and cash; Multi-table SNGs are more popular than single table SNGs; DYMs/DONs are less popular than single table SNGs. The popularity of Sky's DYMs are an exception to the rule.
3) There's a limit to how much someone can win in DYMs - After RB, the best hourly win rates on here in DYMs will be comparable to winning regs at 20-50nl.
Because of #1-3, there's no point in someone making coaching videos or study tools for DYMs (or DONs):
- They'd make the games tougher for everyone (including themselves) in a limited player pool, costing themselves money
- The limited target audience means they wouldn't be able to make much money to begin with
- They wouldn't make enough money to make it worthwhile (time investment; making their own games tougher)
- Once the games get tougher, people won't pay £x/month subscription for something to help them win at some tiny ROI when they can just play cash/MTTs.
Suddenly, most DYM training/coaching businesses fall flat on their ar$e - and that's without taking into account that sites are more likely to remove DYMs from their site than any other game variant.
If you compare that to cash/MTTs:
- There are larger player pools = bigger target audience = more £££
- More (all) sites offering MTTs/cash, spreading liquidity out (helping others improve impacts your winrate less, as the players you're coaching are responsible for a negligible amount of total liquidity)
tl;dr - DYMs haven't got tougher compared to other formats because it's not in any individual's best interests to help others improve. That isn't the case for MTTs - coaching, staking, training sites, creating software, MTT Twitch streams etc. are all viable sources of income for people which also improve the standard of others in the player pool (to various extents).
MTTs getting tougher has nothing to do with a "private group sharing information and paying for coaching from each other".
Firstly, the Discord isn't private.
As for sharing information and coaching: you're playing on a site that used to have a TV channel where people could send in hand requests for analysis more than a decade ago, and there's literally a whole 2+2 marketplace where people have been buying/selling coaching and staking for the last 14 years - So not only has the horse bolted, but you've only realised because it sh*gged a mare and the filly is in the 2:50 at Cheltenham tomorrow. Bit late to close the barn door...
As 'the maths guy' that Matt referred to in this video: I am occasionally (maybe a couple of times a year) sent a hand history involving a close decision, usually where satellite/DYM skills are relevant - e.g. "I think I should've folded this, thoughts?"
It's no different to posting a hand history on the forum, aside from the fact he's asking one person for an opinion, instead of an entire community.
I get asked non-strategy and non-Poker maths things far more often tbh - The most common things are probably cricket stats, and occasional RB/promo questions (e.g. "If I get the maximum tickets in the prize draw, how likely am I to win a prize?" or "I have 28k poker points, is it +EV to punt Russian Roulettes until 30k for the next RB tier?". Obviously the answer to both of those questions is 'Yes because you're Matt f***ing Bates'.)
As for the Chicknmelt/study thing: The vast majority of people taking Poker seriously will be discussing hand histories and strategy with somebody, because it's mutually beneficial - Plugging numbers into a solver or looking through your hand history for hours is much more bearable when you're not doing it on your own. There's also cognitive biases when you're reviewing your own hands or learning strategy, so having other people to discuss those things with prevents you from overlooking your mistakes, or thinking you understand some new strategy concept when you actually don't.
The only difference is that on Sky, there's members of the community discussing things with each other, whereas on other sites it's more likely to be a horse discussing hands with their backer.
Honestly, I'd be more worried about what happens on other sites - you won't know the regs as well in a larger player pool; staking is more common elsewhere and increases the likelihood of dodgy things happening when there's financial gain from doing so (e.g. backers taking over for their horse on a FT, ghosting, note/hole card sharing when on a table together); many countries are more likely to attract cheats than the UK due to socio-economic factors; buying/selling of HUD databases; etc.
If people openly talking about discussing strategy with others puts you off playing on Sky, you're going to have some nasty surprises when you take your money elsewhere.
This - the vast majority of people in the Discord are community regulars who are just there for the banter.
See you in the Discord greg where I can continue the abuse of Raith Rovers...
[edit: spelt where wrong 🤣]
That's what I wanna see. WP Dour Scot Bloke.
Life is tough, let's all try & get along, eh?
Someone mention trains & bridges?
Discuss something you qualified to discuss.... like Gorillas....