Been offline for a while - rollercoaster of a couple of weeks. So only just catching up with this.
As a very big Burnley fan, and one who has a good insight into the club, I couldn't disagree more with most of what has been posted in this thread (save for the question marks around timing ... still scratching my head a little over that).
Dyche's time at the club should have come to an end 18 months ago. We were abysmal last season and only really survived because the three relegated sides truly were shocking. And this season he somehow managed to be even worse. No leadership, no inspiration, had clearly lost the players yet still clung on to his stubborn determination to do what he had always done as "it has always worked before." At the very latest, he should have gone after the Brentford loss.
Under Dyche we won just 4 games in 33, mustered up mainly one shot on target per game, failed to beat Watford, Norwich (twice), Leeds, Newcastle or Brentford and in 3 games against Watford/Norwich, failed to score a single goal. Name me another team in any other league who would put up with that? The style of play he insisted on failed to be ineffective 2 years ago, but he refused (or didn't know how) to change it.
I don't buy the argument that he should be protected from the sack because of his previous success - the price Burnley paid for success under Dyche should never be that they were not entitled to any future success. That's not fair. Leicester are the headline example of that: they sacked Ranieri a few months after delivering the Premier League title, and it was the right thing to do.
The very fact that Mike Jackson has taken the same group of players, tweaked them ever so slightly and got the performances he has showcases more than ever a managerial deficiency. And maybe, just maybe, the squad has more talent in it than the "but they have the lowest budget in the league" brigade would like to admit.
Whatever happens now - relegation or survival - I have no problem with Dyche going. It was the right time. I am excited for the next chapter, whilst also immensely proud of the last one.
Seems strange timing, 2 days before a game. And only 8 games left.
I just hope they don't get the upturn in results that they are obviously banking on.
Completely agree. Dyche deserved better. A lot better.
He has spent 10 years working miracles with naff all money. To use the last 2 transfer windows as an example, there has been a net transfer spend of about £0. Let's use 3 ins and outs to show what I mean.
1. Defence. Sold Gibson to Norwich-a relegation rival. For about £8 mill. Bought Collins from Stoke for £12 mill. Not an upgrade for this season-although true to say Collins has more future potential
2. Midfield. Lost Brady on a free. That happens. Though worth noting Burnley have barely signed anyone of note on a Free. Signed Cornet for £12 mill, who looks decent
3. Attack. Sold Wood. For £27 mill. Again, to a relegation rival (at the time). Bought Weghorst. For less than half the fee. Because he is less than half the player.
Burnley have been operating on a relegation budget for years. Consistently not been in the top 17 for wage bills, transfers, attendance.
The main reason they have stayed up has been the Ginger Mourinho. Who has showed Burnley a lot of loyalty when other clubs made enquiries.
I hope they go down. And don't come back up next season under whichever new Manager they already have lined up.
A few corrections, if I may:
1. Defence. Sold Gibson to Norwich-a relegation rival. For about £8 mill. Bought Collins from Stoke for £12 mill. Not an upgrade for this season-although true to say Collins has more future potential
NB | Gibson was a waste of space and a toxic distraction in the squad. We didn't sell him, he wanted to go. He insisted on going in fact - a few weeks before he was sold, he insisted on training with Boro! Spit his dummy out because he was third choice behind Tarky and Mee. Collins is an upgrade on Gibson in every conceivable way.
3. Midfield. Lost Brady on a free. That happens. Though worth noting Burnley have barely signed anyone of note on a Free. Signed Cornet for £12 mill, who looks decent.
NB | Before we "lost Brady on a free" he had been out injured for pretty much the entire last 18 months of his contract. When he did make the odd appearance, he was shockingly bad. I don't really understand the point you are making here, but I do concede that our investment in midfield has been bad. Still, probably no issue here given that Dyche doesn't play with a midfield...
3. Attack. Sold Wood. For £27 mill. Again, to a relegation rival (at the time). Bought Weghorst. For less than half the fee. Because he is less than half the player.
NB | This is the one I have the most issue with. We did not "sell Wood". Wood had a release clause built into his contract which was set at a painfully low £25m (the fault of our previous chairman perhaps, but probably player power in contract negotiations). Newcastle met the release clause with the express intention of crippling a [then] relegation rival and they will not play him next year. We did not "sell him", we did not want to lose him, but he wanted to jump ship (interestingly, citing boredom of the manager and the club).
I cannot begin to explain to you how much better a player Weghorst is than Chris Wood.
"The main reason they have stayed up has been the Ginger Mourinho. Who has showed Burnley a lot of loyalty when other clubs made enquiries."
NB | Erm, what? In the 10 years Dyche stayed at Burnley not a single other club came in and made an offer for his services. The only two that came close were Leicester and Everton. We were told by the local press at the time that Dyche had confirmed to the Board that if either came to speak to him and offer him a job, he would take it and would be off. Sure, real loyal. In the absence of an approach from a single club, Dyche didn't get a chance to demonstrate loyalty. The club, on the other hand, showed loyalty to him by sticking with him through relegation and two painfully poor Premier League seasons.
It would appear the board at Burnley got this right judging by results but it's a fickle thing.
I only wish that our board had stuck with the manager but no some of the fans wanted attractive football despite the examples of Charlton and Leeds who thought they were established Premier teams.
So fan power won the manager was sacked and a new face brought in and yes a new style of attacking football ensued encapsulated by stunning wins against both Manchester teams when Bojan, Arnautovic and Shakiri ripped them apart.
Then the new manager panicked, realised that we were way out of our depth, changed stuff around, pushed the control column forward and we entered a nosedive almost into League 1.
Relegation was NOT the biggest problem. It was losing our identity, the loudest fans, the place nobody wanted to visit, the bear pit, coldest ground, all gone for a sanitised experience where visiting teams loved it and usually left with the points.
Yes under Pulis we were never going to win any prizes, more importantly we were never going to be relegated. Not because we were better but he made us horrible to play against and for some including me that was fine. Hovering around 12th place and giving the occasional bl00dy nose to the big boys was fine by me.
Now, as fans we have no identity, no passion, no real prospect of promotion back to the promised land and little prospects of success.
Yes its true that our board has probably looked after the fans better than any other club.
Tickets now are the same as they were in 2008, prices NEVER rose during our 10 years in the Prem and away travel is free to games. BUT I would rather be paying £40 for home games and paying for away travel to Spurs etc than £27 and free travel to watch us play Rotherham etc.
Burnley board got this right it seems, the next appointment is the most important one in your history, I hope they get it right. The Premier League needs its Burnleys, Stokes and Brentfords if only to keep it real.
It would appear the board at Burnley got this right judging by results but it's a fickle thing.
I only wish that our board had stuck with the manager but no some of the fans wanted attractive football despite the examples of Charlton and Leeds who thought they were established Premier teams.
So fan power won the manager was sacked and a new face brought in and yes a new style of attacking football ensued encapsulated by stunning wins against both Manchester teams when Bojan, Arnautovic and Shakiri ripped them apart.
Then the new manager panicked, realised that we were way out of our depth, changed stuff around, pushed the control column forward and we entered a nosedive almost into League 1.
Relegation was NOT the biggest problem. It was losing our identity, the loudest fans, the place nobody wanted to visit, the bear pit, coldest ground, all gone for a sanitised experience where visiting teams loved it and usually left with the points.
Yes under Pulis we were never going to win any prizes, more importantly we were never going to be relegated. Not because we were better but he made us horrible to play against and for some including me that was fine. Hovering around 12th place and giving the occasional bl00dy nose to the big boys was fine by me.
Now, as fans we have no identity, no passion, no real prospect of promotion back to the promised land and little prospects of success.
Yes its true that our board has probably looked after the fans better than any other club.
Tickets now are the same as they were in 2008, prices NEVER rose during our 10 years in the Prem and away travel is free to games. BUT I would rather be paying £40 for home games and paying for away travel to Spurs etc than £27 and free travel to watch us play Rotherham etc.
Burnley board got this right it seems, the next appointment is the most important one in your history, I hope they get it right. The Premier League needs its Burnleys, Stokes and Brentfords if only to keep it real.
Sorry mate have to disagree with the Pulis bit after we beat liverpool on boxing day he shat himself and resorted to the turgid boring shite because he thought we were safe winning 3 or 4 of the last 18 games which he was happy about but the fans and the board knew it was going to get worse cuz teams had sussed us out and we were on the slippery slope to relegation the next season , it was the right time to be rid of Pulis at the time imho and i think it was the right time for Burnley to sack Dyche , they've given themselves a fighting chance now he's gone Managers go stale , get comfortable then it go's wrong and find themselves in the shite then it's to late abit like us with Hughes when he should have been sacked after the last game when arsenal hammered us and no one stayed behind for the lap of honour , he should have been sacked straight after the match instead they let him sleepwalk us to relegation , well he would have if he stayed but the crazy Lambert decision cemented that relegation anyway Good luck to Burnley i hope they stay up
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Who do you like out of this list? Could not capture more of the outsiders so missing a few. Big Sam 7/4
As a very big Burnley fan, and one who has a good insight into the club, I couldn't disagree more with most of what has been posted in this thread (save for the question marks around timing ... still scratching my head a little over that).
Dyche's time at the club should have come to an end 18 months ago. We were abysmal last season and only really survived because the three relegated sides truly were shocking. And this season he somehow managed to be even worse. No leadership, no inspiration, had clearly lost the players yet still clung on to his stubborn determination to do what he had always done as "it has always worked before." At the very latest, he should have gone after the Brentford loss.
Under Dyche we won just 4 games in 33, mustered up mainly one shot on target per game, failed to beat Watford, Norwich (twice), Leeds, Newcastle or Brentford and in 3 games against Watford/Norwich, failed to score a single goal. Name me another team in any other league who would put up with that? The style of play he insisted on failed to be ineffective 2 years ago, but he refused (or didn't know how) to change it.
I don't buy the argument that he should be protected from the sack because of his previous success - the price Burnley paid for success under Dyche should never be that they were not entitled to any future success. That's not fair. Leicester are the headline example of that: they sacked Ranieri a few months after delivering the Premier League title, and it was the right thing to do.
The very fact that Mike Jackson has taken the same group of players, tweaked them ever so slightly and got the performances he has showcases more than ever a managerial deficiency. And maybe, just maybe, the squad has more talent in it than the "but they have the lowest budget in the league" brigade would like to admit.
Whatever happens now - relegation or survival - I have no problem with Dyche going. It was the right time. I am excited for the next chapter, whilst also immensely proud of the last one.
UTC
1. Defence. Sold Gibson to Norwich-a relegation rival. For about £8 mill. Bought Collins from Stoke for £12 mill. Not an upgrade for this season-although true to say Collins has more future potential
NB | Gibson was a waste of space and a toxic distraction in the squad. We didn't sell him, he wanted to go. He insisted on going in fact - a few weeks before he was sold, he insisted on training with Boro! Spit his dummy out because he was third choice behind Tarky and Mee. Collins is an upgrade on Gibson in every conceivable way.
3. Midfield. Lost Brady on a free. That happens. Though worth noting Burnley have barely signed anyone of note on a Free. Signed Cornet for £12 mill, who looks decent.
NB | Before we "lost Brady on a free" he had been out injured for pretty much the entire last 18 months of his contract. When he did make the odd appearance, he was shockingly bad. I don't really understand the point you are making here, but I do concede that our investment in midfield has been bad. Still, probably no issue here given that Dyche doesn't play with a midfield...
3. Attack. Sold Wood. For £27 mill. Again, to a relegation rival (at the time). Bought Weghorst. For less than half the fee. Because he is less than half the player.
NB | This is the one I have the most issue with. We did not "sell Wood". Wood had a release clause built into his contract which was set at a painfully low £25m (the fault of our previous chairman perhaps, but probably player power in contract negotiations). Newcastle met the release clause with the express intention of crippling a [then] relegation rival and they will not play him next year. We did not "sell him", we did not want to lose him, but he wanted to jump ship (interestingly, citing boredom of the manager and the club).
I cannot begin to explain to you how much better a player Weghorst is than Chris Wood.
"The main reason they have stayed up has been the Ginger Mourinho. Who has showed Burnley a lot of loyalty when other clubs made enquiries."
NB | Erm, what? In the 10 years Dyche stayed at Burnley not a single other club came in and made an offer for his services. The only two that came close were Leicester and Everton. We were told by the local press at the time that Dyche had confirmed to the Board that if either came to speak to him and offer him a job, he would take it and would be off. Sure, real loyal. In the absence of an approach from a single club, Dyche didn't get a chance to demonstrate loyalty. The club, on the other hand, showed loyalty to him by sticking with him through relegation and two painfully poor Premier League seasons.
I only wish that our board had stuck with the manager but no some of the fans wanted attractive football despite the examples of Charlton and Leeds who thought they were established Premier teams.
So fan power won the manager was sacked and a new face brought in and yes a new style of attacking football ensued encapsulated by stunning wins against both Manchester teams when Bojan, Arnautovic and Shakiri ripped them apart.
Then the new manager panicked, realised that we were way out of our depth, changed stuff around, pushed the control column forward and we entered a nosedive almost into League 1.
Relegation was NOT the biggest problem. It was losing our identity, the loudest fans, the place nobody wanted to visit, the bear pit, coldest ground, all gone for a sanitised experience where visiting teams loved it and usually left with the points.
Yes under Pulis we were never going to win any prizes, more importantly we were never going to be relegated. Not because we were better but he made us horrible to play against and for some including me that was fine. Hovering around 12th place and giving the occasional bl00dy nose to the big boys was fine by me.
Now, as fans we have no identity, no passion, no real prospect of promotion back to the promised land and little prospects of success.
Yes its true that our board has probably looked after the fans better than any other club.
Tickets now are the same as they were in 2008, prices NEVER rose during our 10 years in the Prem and away travel is free to games. BUT I would rather be paying £40 for home games and paying for away travel to Spurs etc than £27 and free travel to watch us play Rotherham etc.
Burnley board got this right it seems, the next appointment is the most important one in your history, I hope they get it right. The Premier League needs its Burnleys, Stokes and Brentfords if only to keep it real.
Managers go stale , get comfortable then it go's wrong and find themselves in the shite then it's to late abit like us with Hughes when he should have been sacked after the last game when arsenal hammered us and no one stayed behind for the lap of honour , he should have been sacked straight after the match instead they let him sleepwalk us to relegation , well he would have if he stayed but the crazy Lambert decision cemented that relegation anyway
Good luck to Burnley i hope they stay up