Here’s an idea People who rent their second homes could be forced to produce their mortgage statements for that home, then can only charge rent at the addiction of the current banks saving interest rates.
That would prove how thoughtful they are 😏
That would never work either.
I think you have a simplistic view of renting out property. This makes me wonder why you wouldnt have done it yourself.
I have known a couple of people that rent out property, and its not all plain sailing.
I haven’t done it myself because I’m not keen on the whole “ Landlord” idea, plus I could never have afforded it 😊
It is very easy to dismiss something that you cant afford anyway. It doesnt really matter whether or not you like the whole landlord idea if you couldnt afford to do it. I am not that keen on super yachts.
Simplistic ideas are always the best ones. They only get scuppered by red tape and greed.
I think you mean simple, rather than simplistic. Whereas I meant simplistic. I am not sure where red tape, and greed figures in renting houses? There will be a going rate in any particular area. If you tried to charge over the odds you probably wouldnt find any clients, or if you did they would probably look to move as soon as they realised. The priority of any business is to make a profit, to avoid going out of business It is very easy to criticise a business that you know little about. Particularly if you are unaware of the costs involved, and the things that might go wrong.
The simplistic view of the selling off of council houses is- they are never given to / bought by people who need them most ( After the initial purchase)
I am not sure what you mean here. They could initially only be bought by existing tenants. If they were resold anyone could buy them.
My sister was in a private rental until recently. She was paying £880 per month. It was a 4 bed detached in one of the nicest areas of Swansea. She could probably have paid less than half the price elsewhere. So she couldnt really moan about it. I dont think that whether the owners had a mortgage or not, or how much profit they made, was relevant. She needed a house to rent, and that was the one she wanted.
You are incorrect in the “ Anyone could buy them “ I think you meant anyone who could afford the inflated price could buy them.
I was probably incorrect in my “Couldn’t afford to” also., of course I could sell my ( vastly overpriced) house down south Purchase a 5 bed house up North, split it into 5 “ self contained flats” charge the ( vastly overpriced) “going rate” and live off the profits. My not keen on the Landlord bit still stands though..
I dont think the prices were inflated. A house on a council estate would usually be cheaper than a similar house on a private estate.
I think you may be pulling my leg ( or trying to wind me up 😊) I’m pretty sure you know what I mean, the fact that the ex council tenants bought their house for a fraction of the “market value”, then after a certain period could sell it at full market value, thus pricing out the potential hopeful council tenants out of buying it 😊
Would you change your mind if,
I am plucking these figures out of thin air, but they could be adjusted. Lets say a 5 year qualifying period to qualify for the right to buy. A Housing Association builds a house at a cost of £100,000. Day one its worth £150,000. 5years later is worth £200,000. The discount is 25%, after renting for 5 years. So the renter can buy for £150,000. No deposit required, the equity covers it. The Housing Association is forced to construct another house to replace the one that was sold. Say the rental was £500 per month. The rental contract could compel the renter to be responsible for minor maintenance to minimise the HA costs. The HA would benefit from £30k in rent, plus 50k profit from the sale. The government could also put limited funding into HAs to ensure their housing stock was increased on an annual basis.
This would mean that many more people would be able to access home ownership. The lack of the need for a deposit overcomes a huge stumbling block. No downsides? Would you change your mind?
The two things I agree with are that tenants should be responsible for minor maintenance, and housing stock to rent increasing.
‘Back in the day’ Endowment Mortgages,
I had a couple of them. They were a thing. Some people benefitted from them. Maybe much better before the crash, than after.
and Double Glazing were the road to ruin for many people.
Nonsense. There are many benefits of double glazing.
I recall a programme ( Matt Alrite rogue traders or the like) where firms selling double glazing had sales pitches with the wonderful “ We have discounts available in your area” bull…… The salesmen were in the houses for (sometimes) up to 6 or 7 hours telling the customer that the deal was only available on that day.
So you think that one TV programme proves your case? While ignoring the multi-millions of people that are perfectly happy with their double glazing. Most of whom dont miss the draughts, or painting their windows every couple of years. In every industry there are companies that are reputable, and those that arent. Should we say all poker sites must be bad, because one or two, have ripped their customers off. People often amazed me with stories about choosing the fella down the road with an L reg transit van to do the work, as they were a third of the price of the others. They were then surprised when they took a deposit, and didnt turn up to do the work. I wouldnt have been surprised. Or they wouldnt come back if something went wrong. Or they went bankrupt, and refused to honour the guarantee. Many people were the architects of their own downfall in respect of double glazing. Although the were a number of dodgy companies involved.
It’s akin to someone sitting down in an office and saying “ Ok, the government have pulled the wool over these peoples eyes, how can we make more money out of the suckers”
I’m not debating the benefits of double glazing, it’s a no brainier v the alternative.
What I am saying is that during the times of ‘right to buy’ there were COUNTLESS firms exploiting the ‘clients’ , and not just Joe Bloggs with his L plate transit van.
Although one could argue plastic windows aren’t the best way forward for this particular practice, what is the time limit on reduction of ‘whiteness’ in the windows? What do you do with the plastic windows replaced? Are any guarantees in place with regards to replacing the plastic windows if they do deteriorate before the time stated? Who does the work, is it free? As far as I recall, the installers were self employed, does the company reimburse them for replacing Dodgy windows? How many Plastic window installers/ manufacturers are still around today from the 90’s ?
The rise and fall of endowment mortgages has been a feature of one of the most notorious mis-selling scandals in the last few decades. The industry grew as a result of tax breaks, and hit its peak towards the end of the 1980s when it became the fashionable home loan for those getting on the property ladder. The estimated peak was more than a million policies sold in a single year. The extent of the subsequent decline is clear from the fact that only 27 sales of this product were completed in 2011-12, according to the City watchdog, the Financial Services Authority (FSA)
My first mortgage was a pension mortgage. I switched to an endowment. Endowments appealed because as you were only paying the interest, plus the endowment premium, they worked out substantially cheaper than a repayment mortgage. Secondly the pitch was that the endowment bit would repay the mortgage and give you a lump sum when it matured. Now I dont know what went wrong with this. Were the returns on the endowment premiums miscalculated, or was it the crash. Any way the result was for many people they didnt cover the mortgage, never mind pay out a lump sum on top. Banks, and Building Societies also offered interest only mortgages. I didnt like these either. They relied upon house prices rising, and selling the property at some point. Then repaying the mortgage, and keeping the equity. This is obviously dependant on rising house prices. If they dont you are in trouble. A couple of friends of mine that were in to buy to lets had quite a few of these.
There are undoubtedly many benefits to double glazing.
Which makes it all the more sad the enormous numbers of rip-off merchants in that particular industry.
Imagine if Tesco's started by saying that this tin of Baked Beans is £35.27. Purely to catch the gullible. And then lied by saying as a special offer, just for today, it is only £29.99.
Oh-don't tell me. Let me guess. You didn't work for that sort of Double Glazing company. And no-one got a bigger commission if the homeowner accepted the "offer", rather than the real price
I think at the time it started the spin was for "every council house we sell we will build another" that didn't happen. From 1979/80 to 2016 when it ended in Scotland nearly 500,000 were sold in Scotland according to the Scottish government, how many were replaced ? I stay in a council scheme, my street has 140 houses, about 40% are houses that were sold right to buy, during the period of right to buy you'd be lucky if 100 council houses ( or social houses as they call them now ) were built in the whole town, a population of about 35,000. I could have bought my council house but I didn't agree with right to buy, I still don't ( just my opinion ) I think cheaper private housing should be built to let people get on the housing ladder as they call it, I have mates more socialist than Marx who bought their house, never told a soul, when at the same time they were shouting for revolution. I've stayed in my house for 32 years, in the last 15 years I have had a new roof, house rewired, insulated, smoke alarms, new windows with double glazing ( twice, still don't know why ), I could never have afforded to do any of that if I had bought it.
There are undoubtedly many benefits to double glazing.
Which makes it all the more sad the enormous numbers of rip-off merchants in that particular industry.
Imagine if Tesco's started by saying that this tin of Baked Beans is £35.27. Purely to catch the gullible. And then lied by saying as a special offer, just for today, it is only £29.99.
Oh-don't tell me. Let me guess. You didn't work for that sort of Double Glazing company. And no-one got a bigger commission if the homeowner accepted the "offer", rather than the real price
I never worked for a company that didnt have a price list. The only leeway was that a rep may be prepared to knock some of their commission off to get the deal. I never did this. Some people considered our earnings high. When you consider that we used our own cars, and petrol, paid our own tax, and insurance, and had to employ an accountant, maybe not that high. Earning nothing after working on a week where you hadnt sold anything was depressing. There is a lot of criticism about double glazing companies. Much of it from people that havent a clue about it. Although some criticism has been deserved. I am not going to go into a massive explanation because it would take too long. There is an obvious saving based on the size of the job. For instance fitting one window is quite expensive in comparison to say fitting four or five at the same time. So as per your example, the price might reduce based on the size of the job, and Tesco dont discount your tin of beans, whether you buy one tin, or 5 or even 10. Paying a team of fitters a days wages for spending a couple of hours fitting one window is not very cost effective. Neither is having your reps visit the same customer, on 3 or 4 occasions. I was very honest in my double glazing dealings, and my Timeshare deals. I can still remember selling my first double glazing deal. When the surveyor visited after the job had been sold the guy said he didnt want a couple of things that had been priced in. I gave him solar control glass free of charge to balance what he had contracted to pay for. I sold him a further three orders, and a conservatory, and 3 of his family members placed orders with me. I had lots of repeat customers, and referrals. Ripping people off is a short term thing.
Right to buy your Council House. The idea born from the dispute Margret Thatcher had with the then Labour Leader of the G.L.C. Ken Livingstone. She saw it as converting Labour voters into Tory voters. Ken was against it but couldn't stop it and was made to implement it through his offices, so he got one back by giving Council Tenants three really low Mortgage options. Remember my neighbour asking me about it, no brainer I told him if you can afford the extra over & above the rent he was paying. I think as I remember it, the lowest rate was twice the then rent. We were all conned into thinking the raised revenue would provide more housing, but just like the selling off the Utilities Maggie had no intention build new Council Houses. Privatisation was on it's way. fwiw
The people that were dead against buying their council house were staunch Labour supporters and even our own local Labour MP refused to buy his in protest. He lived in one of the higher income rented Council houses on the Estate and was not best please when I asked him to swap with me so I could buy it, one of my silly jokes that back fired, never spoke to me again. lol Think that was when I was forced to become a Tory. cough!
I think at the time it started the spin was for "every council house we sell we will build another" that didn't happen. From 1979/80 to 2016 when it ended in Scotland nearly 500,000 were sold in Scotland according to the Scottish government, how many were replaced ? I stay in a council scheme, my street has 140 houses, about 40% are houses that were sold right to buy, during the period of right to buy you'd be lucky if 100 council houses ( or social houses as they call them now ) were built in the whole town, a population of about 35,000. I could have bought my council house but I didn't agree with right to buy, I still don't ( just my opinion ) I think cheaper private housing should be built to let people get on the housing ladder as they call it, I have mates more socialist than Marx who bought their house, never told a soul, when at the same time they were shouting for revolution. I've stayed in my house for 32 years, in the last 15 years I have had a new roof, house rewired, insulated, smoke alarms, new windows with double glazing ( twice, still don't know why ), I could never have afforded to do any of that if I had bought it.
The receipts from the RTB, we not allowed to be spent on replacing those that were sold. So that was never the spin. See the article below. As I said earlier this was a big flaw in the plan. I dealt with lots of these sales, and being able to own their own home put a spring in many peoples steps. Though whatever the scheme, it will not suit everyone. Because they were given large discounts, those that bought were also given in some cases a huge lump of equity. Many of the customers which I dealt with used the equity to buy stuff. Many people that didnt qualify for a mortgage through a BS, got one through the council. Many people today want to get on the housing ladder, but are unable to. In many cases this is caused by their inability to save a deposit. In the RTB scheme you didnt need one. Many other people are stuck in the private rented sector, and wish they werent. Those that didnt want to get involved didnt have to, as you havent.
I just think that if they had used the receipts from the sales to replace the ones that were sold, that it would have been a great scheme.
The main reason I bought a house was that a didnt want to spend a large percentage of my retirement income on rent. Followed closely by having something to leave to the kids. Although I do understand why home ownership is not for everyone.
The Housing Acts of 1980: a watershed in housing policy
When the Conservative Party won the 1979 election, they saw their housing policies and the ‘right to buy’ in particular as factors contributing to their electoral success. Throughout the subsequent period the government continued to regard its initial policy stance as an electoral asset. It was also advantageous fiscally – delivering the largest capital receipts of any privatisation programme: though none of the capital could be spent on replacing the council housing that was sold.
The right to buy in 1980 did not introduce the sale of council houses for the first time as discretionary powers enabling sale had always existed.
The people that were dead against buying their council house were staunch Labour supporters and even our own local Labour MP refused to buy his in protest. He lived in one of the higher income rented Council houses on the Estate and was not best please when I asked him to swap with me so I could buy it, one of my silly jokes that back fired, never spoke to me again. lol Think that was when I was forced to become a Tory. cough!
I cant remember all the figures, going back that far. Although I do remember doing a few deals on what were considered the best two council estates in Swansea, where the customer bought their house for 20k. In each case it would have been 50% off 40k. Having had a quick look on Zoopla, these houses may be worth 220k today. I dont remember what the rents were at the time, or what the mortgage repayments were.
The problem with selling so many council houses over the years is that the waiting list for a council house has become so high it's unreal, you buy yer house to leave to the kids, say you've 4 kids they reach late teens early twenties can't wait to branch out on their own, one is unemployed, can't get a job, two are on min wage the other is at college, they are all waiting for you to coup to get the luppins, let's say you're a stubburn auld git planning to live in to your nineties, it could end up like something oot a Hitchcock film.
Right to buy your Council House. The idea born from the dispute Margret Thatcher had with the then Labour Leader of the G.L.C. Ken Livingstone. She saw it as converting Labour voters into Tory voters. Ken was against it but couldn't stop it and was made to implement it through his offices, so he got one back by giving Council Tenants three really low Mortgage options. Remember my neighbour asking me about it, no brainer I told him if you can afford the extra over & above the rent he was paying. I think as I remember it, the lowest rate was twice the then rent. We were all conned into thinking the raised revenue would provide more housing, but just like the selling off the Utilities Maggie had no intention build new Council Houses. Privatisation was on it's way. fwiw
Any prospective buyer could have got their mortgage through a BS, or bank, at the going rate, provided they were credit worthy. The Government said very clearly at the time that the receipts would not be used to fund the building of new houses. I can recall fairly regular debates on this topic. That bit was stupid, and didnt make any sense.
The problem with selling so many council houses over the years is that the waiting list for a council house has become so high it's unreal,
Had they built new ones with the proceeds from the sales then this would not be the case. They didnt, and that was stupid. What they really did was look after the people that were council tenants at the time, but didnt give a thought about the council tenants of the future.
you buy yer house to leave to the kids, say you've 4 kids they reach late teens early twenties can't wait to branch out on their own, one is unemployed, can't get a job, two are on min wage the other is at college, they are all waiting for you to coup to get the luppins, let's say you're a stubburn auld git planning to live in to your nineties, it could end up like something oot a Hitchcock film.
I gave an example above of houses that were purchased for 20k, now being worth 220k. The average purchaser is probably more likely to have 2 kids, than 4. In the case of someone with 2 kids, they would be looking at 100k plus, when the parents pop their clogs. Compare that to the kids of parents that didnt purchase their home.
Many of the deals I did at the time were oldies. Some kids will have already inherited. Some kids bought them jointly with parents that couldnt afford it on their own. Some kids got involved, with their kids in mind. The long and short of it is that this scheme has helped millions of people get on the housing ladder that would have struggled without it.
I think at the time it started the spin was for "every council house we sell we will build another" that didn't happen. From 1979/80 to 2016 when it ended in Scotland nearly 500,000 were sold in Scotland according to the Scottish government, how many were replaced ? I stay in a council scheme, my street has 140 houses, about 40% are houses that were sold right to buy, during the period of right to buy you'd be lucky if 100 council houses ( or social houses as they call them now ) were built in the whole town, a population of about 35,000. I could have bought my council house but I didn't agree with right to buy, I still don't ( just my opinion ) I think cheaper private housing should be built to let people get on the housing ladder as they call it, I have mates more socialist than Marx who bought their house, never told a soul, when at the same time they were shouting for revolution. I've stayed in my house for 32 years, in the last 15 years I have had a new roof, house rewired, insulated, smoke alarms, new windows with double glazing ( twice, still don't know why ), I could never have afforded to do any of that if I had bought it.
The cost of the above over 25 years on a mortgage would not have been very much, on a monthly basis. It was a no brainer for me, and a very easy pitch. Compare the costs over 25 years on a mortgage, to maybe 50 years of rental, and what you have to show for it at the end.
The problem with selling so many council houses over the years is that the waiting list for a council house has become so high it's unreal,
Had they built new ones with the proceeds from the sales then this would not be the case. They didnt, and that was stupid. What they really did was look after the people that were council tenants at the time, but didnt give a thought about the council tenants of the future.
you buy yer house to leave to the kids, say you've 4 kids they reach late teens early twenties can't wait to branch out on their own, one is unemployed, can't get a job, two are on min wage the other is at college, they are all waiting for you to coup to get the luppins, let's say you're a stubburn auld git planning to live in to your nineties, it could end up like something oot a Hitchcock film.
I gave an example above of houses that were purchased for 20k, now being worth 220k. The average purchaser is probably more likely to have 2 kids, than 4. In the case of someone with 2 kids, they would be looking at 100k plus, when the parents pop their clogs. Compare that to the kids of parents that didnt purchase their home.
Many of the deals I did at the time were oldies. Some kids will have already inherited. Some kids bought them jointly with parents that couldnt afford it on their own. Some kids got involved, with their kids in mind. The long and short of it is that this scheme has helped millions of people get on the housing ladder that would have struggled without it.
But there are always 2 sides to that particular coin.
Councils sold an asset now worth £220k for £20k.
The 100k-plus bit? Maybe. For those pensioners not sliding into debt thanks to the current massive increases. And who do not have to go in to a Care Home.
There is very little Council Housing stock left. I've said this before, but it bears repeating.
I live in Tendring. A deprived area-which is (of course) why it features heavily in the Matt Allwright show mentioned earlier.
Population-150,000. So-it would (if in Wales) be the 3rd largest place. Smaller than Swansea. But bigger than Newport.
There are undoubtedly many benefits to double glazing.
Which makes it all the more sad the enormous numbers of rip-off merchants in that particular industry.
Imagine if Tesco's started by saying that this tin of Baked Beans is £35.27. Purely to catch the gullible. And then lied by saying as a special offer, just for today, it is only £29.99.
Oh-don't tell me. Let me guess. You didn't work for that sort of Double Glazing company. And no-one got a bigger commission if the homeowner accepted the "offer", rather than the real price
The price list we used worked as follows. It allowed us to calculate what was called a gross price. The price list also included a quantity discount. The quantity discount increased on a sliding scale depending on the order value. We never delivered the gross price, the price we delivered was always the price that was net of the quantity discount. We called this the list price. So the potential customer was never aware that there was a gross price, they were only ever aware that there was a list price. The only other discount on offer was the immediate order discount. We always told people upfront about the immediate order discount, and explained that the list price would be valid for six months. A customer that was able to place an order on the initial visit qualified for the immediate order discount. So they had a choice they could receive a quote of the list price, and take up to 6 months to make their mind up, or take advantage of the immediate order discount. To enable those that took advantage of the immediate order discount to also have some peace of mind, we offered in writing, a price guarantee. In a nutshell it said that if the customer could find a cheaper quote from an alternative supplier that could install a product with similar benefits to ours (which were listed), within 12 months of ours being installed, then we would refund the difference in cost.
The way we explained the reason for the immediate order discount was as follows. Our company employs 30 reps throughout South Wales. We will all be out seeing someone tonight. We sell on average one in three of our enquiries. So every time the 30 of us go out, we will sell 10 orders. The average order value is £2,000. So we sell £20,000 worth of business per day. Therefore if we have to go and see the same 30 people we are seeing tonight, tomorrow night, we lose £20,000 worth of business. So if the people we see are able to make a decision on the initial visit, it saves the company money, part of which they are prepared to pass on to the customer.
People could place an order with me on the initial appointment, confident they werent getting ripped off, because of the price guarantee.
One of the difficulties we faced was that at least one of our customers will have been working, and on many occasions they were both working. Therefore the appointments were usually in the early evening. Due to the length of time the appointment took, you would usually only fit in one appointment per night.
We never got involved in Dutch Auctions. We only ever quoted one price, with an immediate order discount option. I spent 18 years in the double glazing industry, and during that time 2 people came back to me, and bought at the list price.
The problem with selling so many council houses over the years is that the waiting list for a council house has become so high it's unreal,
Had they built new ones with the proceeds from the sales then this would not be the case. They didnt, and that was stupid. What they really did was look after the people that were council tenants at the time, but didnt give a thought about the council tenants of the future.
you buy yer house to leave to the kids, say you've 4 kids they reach late teens early twenties can't wait to branch out on their own, one is unemployed, can't get a job, two are on min wage the other is at college, they are all waiting for you to coup to get the luppins, let's say you're a stubburn auld git planning to live in to your nineties, it could end up like something oot a Hitchcock film.
I gave an example above of houses that were purchased for 20k, now being worth 220k. The average purchaser is probably more likely to have 2 kids, than 4. In the case of someone with 2 kids, they would be looking at 100k plus, when the parents pop their clogs. Compare that to the kids of parents that didnt purchase their home.
Many of the deals I did at the time were oldies. Some kids will have already inherited. Some kids bought them jointly with parents that couldnt afford it on their own. Some kids got involved, with their kids in mind. The long and short of it is that this scheme has helped millions of people get on the housing ladder that would have struggled without it.
But there are always 2 sides to that particular coin.
Always.
Councils sold an asset now worth £220k for £20k.
It would be more realistic to say they sold an asset worth 40k for 20k.
The 100k-plus bit? Maybe. For those pensioners not sliding into debt thanks to the current massive increases. And who do not have to go in to a Care Home.
Whatever it was, it is still better than leaving them nothing.
There is very little Council Housing stock left. I've said this before, but it bears repeating.
I think the mistake was not replacing the ones that were sold, rather than selling them.
I live in Tendring. A deprived area-which is (of course) why it features heavily in the Matt Allwright show mentioned earlier.
Population-150,000. So-it would (if in Wales) be the 3rd largest place. Smaller than Swansea. But bigger than Newport.
Total number of 4+-bed Council Houses? 10.
How many of these do you think they sold?
There cannot be winners without losers.
The winners were the people that bought at the time, by not replacing the houses that were sold, they completely ignored the future demand. Absolutely stupid.
There are undoubtedly many benefits to double glazing.
Which makes it all the more sad the enormous numbers of rip-off merchants in that particular industry.
Imagine if Tesco's started by saying that this tin of Baked Beans is £35.27. Purely to catch the gullible. And then lied by saying as a special offer, just for today, it is only £29.99.
Oh-don't tell me. Let me guess. You didn't work for that sort of Double Glazing company. And no-one got a bigger commission if the homeowner accepted the "offer", rather than the real price
The price list we used worked as follows. It allowed us to calculate what was called a gross price. The price list also included a quantity discount. The quantity discount increased on a sliding scale depending on the order value. We never delivered the gross price, the price we delivered was always the price that was net of the quantity discount. We called this the list price. So the potential customer was never aware that there was a gross price, they were only ever aware that there was a list price. The only other discount on offer was the immediate order discount. We always told people upfront about the immediate order discount, and explained that the list price would be valid for six months. A customer that was able to place an order on the initial visit qualified for the immediate order discount. So they had a choice they could receive a quote of the list price, and take up to 6 months to make their mind up, or take advantage of the immediate order discount. To enable those that took advantage of the immediate order discount to also have some peace of mind, we offered in writing, a price guarantee. In a nutshell it said that if the customer could find a cheaper quote from an alternative supplier that could install a product with similar benefits to ours (which were listed), within 12 months of ours being installed, then we would refund the difference in cost.
The way we explained the reason for the immediate order discount was as follows. Our company employs 30 reps throughout South Wales. We will all be out seeing someone tonight. We sell on average one in three of our enquiries. So every time the 30 of us go out, we will sell 10 orders. The average order value is £2,000. So we sell £20,000 worth of business per day. Therefore if we have to go and see the same 30 people we are seeing tonight, tomorrow night, we lose £20,000 worth of business. So if the people we see are able to make a decision on the initial visit, it saves the company money, part of which they are prepared to pass on to the customer.
People could place an order with me on the initial appointment, confident they werent getting ripped off, because of the price guarantee.
One of the difficulties we faced was that at least one of our customers will have been working, and on many occasions they were both working. Therefore the appointments were usually in the early evening. Due to the length of time the appointment took, you would usually only fit in one appointment per night.
We never got involved in Dutch Auctions. We only ever quoted one price, with an immediate order discount option. I spent 18 years in the double glazing industry, and during that time 2 people came back to me, and bought at the list price.
That was a lovely story, @HAYSIE . Did your customers believe it? Did you believe it?
Just as examples:-
1. That is not a "discount" at the beginning 2. The "immediate order discount". Sure it existed. But it would have still been there on a 2nd visit-because exactly the same benefits to the Company would apply. Or are you saying that no salesman ever went back for a 2nd go 3. The "price guarantee". Remind me-exactly which company are going to send people round to offer discounts on windows that someone doesn't need? That "price guarantee" was just a sales gimmick 4. You are really saying there was no further reductions available? The last time I bought double glazing (20 years ago) I secured a discount of more than 50% on your supposed bottom price. Simply because I was playing 2 of the Big 3 at the time against one another. I must have done a good job-because the Company tried to pull out of the deal 5. If your Company never got involved in "Dutch Auctions", the reason was very simple-it had no intention of offering the best price
South Wales must have had customers that believed you if you told them "gullible" wasn't in the dictionary
The fact I bought my Council House did not deprive anyone of a Council house. I still live in it, so not available to anyone the years I've lived here.
There are undoubtedly many benefits to double glazing.
Which makes it all the more sad the enormous numbers of rip-off merchants in that particular industry.
Imagine if Tesco's started by saying that this tin of Baked Beans is £35.27. Purely to catch the gullible. And then lied by saying as a special offer, just for today, it is only £29.99.
Oh-don't tell me. Let me guess. You didn't work for that sort of Double Glazing company. And no-one got a bigger commission if the homeowner accepted the "offer", rather than the real price
The price list we used worked as follows. It allowed us to calculate what was called a gross price. The price list also included a quantity discount. The quantity discount increased on a sliding scale depending on the order value. We never delivered the gross price, the price we delivered was always the price that was net of the quantity discount. We called this the list price. So the potential customer was never aware that there was a gross price, they were only ever aware that there was a list price. The only other discount on offer was the immediate order discount. We always told people upfront about the immediate order discount, and explained that the list price would be valid for six months. A customer that was able to place an order on the initial visit qualified for the immediate order discount. So they had a choice they could receive a quote of the list price, and take up to 6 months to make their mind up, or take advantage of the immediate order discount. To enable those that took advantage of the immediate order discount to also have some peace of mind, we offered in writing, a price guarantee. In a nutshell it said that if the customer could find a cheaper quote from an alternative supplier that could install a product with similar benefits to ours (which were listed), within 12 months of ours being installed, then we would refund the difference in cost.
The way we explained the reason for the immediate order discount was as follows. Our company employs 30 reps throughout South Wales. We will all be out seeing someone tonight. We sell on average one in three of our enquiries. So every time the 30 of us go out, we will sell 10 orders. The average order value is £2,000. So we sell £20,000 worth of business per day. Therefore if we have to go and see the same 30 people we are seeing tonight, tomorrow night, we lose £20,000 worth of business. So if the people we see are able to make a decision on the initial visit, it saves the company money, part of which they are prepared to pass on to the customer.
People could place an order with me on the initial appointment, confident they werent getting ripped off, because of the price guarantee.
One of the difficulties we faced was that at least one of our customers will have been working, and on many occasions they were both working. Therefore the appointments were usually in the early evening. Due to the length of time the appointment took, you would usually only fit in one appointment per night.
We never got involved in Dutch Auctions. We only ever quoted one price, with an immediate order discount option. I spent 18 years in the double glazing industry, and during that time 2 people came back to me, and bought at the list price.
That was a lovely story, @HAYSIE . Did your customers believe it? Did you believe it?
I did, it is true.
Just as examples:-
1. That is not a "discount" at the beginning
? To be clear lets say one window costs £600. A customer wants a quote on 10, all the same size, so thats £6,000. Orders over £6,000 get a quantity discount of 15%, so the list price is £5,100. So the price we would quote is £5,100. Guaranteed for 6 months. We would offer a 15% immediate order discount. Therefore £4335 bottom line.
3. The "immediate order discount". Sure it existed. But it would have still been there on a 2nd visit
Not true. The two that came back to me paid the list price.
-because exactly the same benefits to the Company would apply. Or are you saying that no salesman ever went back for a 2nd go
I didnt, ever.
5. The "price guarantee". Remind me-exactly which company are going to send people round to offer discounts on windows that someone doesn't need? That "price guarantee" was just a sales gimmick
Not true. Our delivery was usually 4/6 weeks. They could have used this time to get further quotes, if they wished, before the windows were fitted.
7. You are really saying there was no further reductions available?
Yes categorically. Other than if a rep was prepared to stupidly knock a bit of his commission off.
The last time I bought double glazing (20 years ago) I secured a discount of more than 50% on your supposed bottom price.
Maybe you thought you did. Maybe you did. Maybe you didnt really. Some companies will quote a ridiculous price straight off, thinking everyone is impressed by huge discounts. I would personally be very suspicious of a 50% discount on anything. It wasnt MY bottom price, I didnt sell them to you.
Simply because I was playing 2 of the Big 3 at the time against one another.
Who were the big 3 at the time?
I must have done a good job-because the Company tried to pull out of the deal
When this happens, after sales tends to suffer. Although I have heard of companies pulling out of contracts, where the rep has made a mistake. The company I worked for pulled out of one of mine once, where the builder (the wifes brother), had omitted to fit lintels above the windows on the extension, and removing the windows would have collapsed the building. So contracts can be pulled out of.
9. If your Company never got involved in "Dutch Auctions", the reason was very simple-it had no intention of offering the best price
How would you define the best price?
We didnt do it because so many people complained about it. Potential customers were very wary of companies doing deals at half the original price, or dropping the price numerous times. You were more likely to lose a sale by doing this than gaining one. We quoted one price and offered the immediate order discount, end of.
South Wales must have had customers that believed you if you told them "gullible" wasn't in the dictionary
Very few if any of my customers would have been inclined to complain about me. I have sold stuff all over the UK, and abroad. I have taught people to sell, all over the UK, and abroad. I have also come into contact with many clever people that have come unstuck by not knowing as much as they thought they did.
it is not clear from what you have said, whether the deciding factor for you was the amount of discount, or the lowest price, and whether the quality of the window, or the reputation of the company figured at all.
I am not sure if you dont understand the reason for the immediate order discount, or just dont agree with it. Lets say you are running a double glazing company. You have 30 reps. They work five evenings per week. They sell one in three of their enquiries. So they see 150 people per week between them. Therefore 50 deals per week worth 100k. So you have a marketing operation that geared up to produce 150 leads per week. All hunky dory everyone doing their bit.
You then remove the immediate order discount. Your reps start seeing people twice. That means you only need 75 leads per week. You halve your sales. You are down to 25 deals per week and 50k. You only need half the staff in the marketing office, so you lay off the rest. You lay off half your fitting teams. And half your factory staff. Not necessarily a good idea.
Comments
What I am saying is that during the times of ‘right to buy’ there were COUNTLESS firms exploiting the ‘clients’ , and not just Joe Bloggs with his L plate transit van.
Although one could argue plastic windows aren’t the best way forward for this particular practice, what is the time limit on reduction of ‘whiteness’ in the windows?
What do you do with the plastic windows replaced?
Are any guarantees in place with regards to replacing the plastic windows if they do deteriorate before the time stated? Who does the work, is it free?
As far as I recall, the installers were self employed, does the company reimburse them for replacing Dodgy windows?
How many Plastic window installers/ manufacturers are still around today from the 90’s ?
I switched to an endowment.
Endowments appealed because as you were only paying the interest, plus the endowment premium, they worked out substantially cheaper than a repayment mortgage.
Secondly the pitch was that the endowment bit would repay the mortgage and give you a lump sum when it matured.
Now I dont know what went wrong with this.
Were the returns on the endowment premiums miscalculated, or was it the crash.
Any way the result was for many people they didnt cover the mortgage, never mind pay out a lump sum on top.
Banks, and Building Societies also offered interest only mortgages.
I didnt like these either.
They relied upon house prices rising, and selling the property at some point.
Then repaying the mortgage, and keeping the equity.
This is obviously dependant on rising house prices.
If they dont you are in trouble.
A couple of friends of mine that were in to buy to lets had quite a few of these.
Which makes it all the more sad the enormous numbers of rip-off merchants in that particular industry.
Imagine if Tesco's started by saying that this tin of Baked Beans is £35.27. Purely to catch the gullible. And then lied by saying as a special offer, just for today, it is only £29.99.
Oh-don't tell me. Let me guess. You didn't work for that sort of Double Glazing company. And no-one got a bigger commission if the homeowner accepted the "offer", rather than the real price
From 1979/80 to 2016 when it ended in Scotland nearly 500,000 were sold in Scotland according to the Scottish government, how many were replaced ?
I stay in a council scheme, my street has 140 houses, about 40% are houses that were sold right to buy, during the period of right to buy you'd be lucky if 100 council houses ( or social houses as they call them now ) were built in the whole town, a population of about 35,000.
I could have bought my council house but I didn't agree with right to buy, I still don't ( just my opinion ) I think cheaper private housing should be built to let people get on the housing ladder as they call it, I have mates more socialist than Marx who bought their house, never told a soul, when at the same time they were shouting for revolution.
I've stayed in my house for 32 years, in the last 15 years I have had a new roof, house rewired, insulated, smoke alarms, new windows with double glazing ( twice, still don't know why ), I could never have afforded to do any of that if I had bought it.
The only leeway was that a rep may be prepared to knock some of their commission off to get the deal.
I never did this.
Some people considered our earnings high.
When you consider that we used our own cars, and petrol, paid our own tax, and insurance, and had to employ an accountant, maybe not that high.
Earning nothing after working on a week where you hadnt sold anything was depressing.
There is a lot of criticism about double glazing companies.
Much of it from people that havent a clue about it.
Although some criticism has been deserved.
I am not going to go into a massive explanation because it would take too long.
There is an obvious saving based on the size of the job.
For instance fitting one window is quite expensive in comparison to say fitting four or five at the same time.
So as per your example, the price might reduce based on the size of the job, and Tesco dont discount your tin of beans, whether you buy one tin, or 5 or even 10.
Paying a team of fitters a days wages for spending a couple of hours fitting one window is not very cost effective.
Neither is having your reps visit the same customer, on 3 or 4 occasions.
I was very honest in my double glazing dealings, and my Timeshare deals.
I can still remember selling my first double glazing deal.
When the surveyor visited after the job had been sold the guy said he didnt want a couple of things that had been priced in.
I gave him solar control glass free of charge to balance what he had contracted to pay for.
I sold him a further three orders, and a conservatory, and 3 of his family members placed orders with me.
I had lots of repeat customers, and referrals.
Ripping people off is a short term thing.
The idea born from the dispute Margret Thatcher had with the then Labour Leader of the G.L.C. Ken Livingstone.
She saw it as converting Labour voters into Tory voters. Ken was against it but couldn't stop it and was made to implement it through his offices, so he got one back by giving Council Tenants three really low Mortgage options.
Remember my neighbour asking me about it, no brainer I told him if you can afford the extra over & above the rent he was paying. I think as I remember it, the lowest rate was twice the then rent.
We were all conned into thinking the raised revenue would provide more housing, but just like the selling off the Utilities Maggie had no intention build new Council Houses. Privatisation was on it's way. fwiw
He lived in one of the higher income rented Council houses on the Estate and was not best please when I asked him to swap with me so I could buy it, one of my silly jokes that back fired, never spoke to me again. lol Think that was when I was forced to become a Tory. cough!
So that was never the spin.
See the article below.
As I said earlier this was a big flaw in the plan.
I dealt with lots of these sales, and being able to own their own home put a spring in many peoples steps.
Though whatever the scheme, it will not suit everyone.
Because they were given large discounts, those that bought were also given in some cases a huge lump of equity.
Many of the customers which I dealt with used the equity to buy stuff.
Many people that didnt qualify for a mortgage through a BS, got one through the council.
Many people today want to get on the housing ladder, but are unable to.
In many cases this is caused by their inability to save a deposit.
In the RTB scheme you didnt need one.
Many other people are stuck in the private rented sector, and wish they werent.
Those that didnt want to get involved didnt have to, as you havent.
I just think that if they had used the receipts from the sales to replace the ones that were sold, that it would have been a great scheme.
The main reason I bought a house was that a didnt want to spend a large percentage of my retirement income on rent.
Followed closely by having something to leave to the kids.
Although I do understand why home ownership is not for everyone.
The Housing Acts of 1980: a watershed in housing policy
When the Conservative Party won the 1979 election, they saw their housing policies and the ‘right to buy’ in particular as factors contributing to their electoral success. Throughout the subsequent period the government continued to regard its initial policy stance as an electoral asset. It was also advantageous fiscally – delivering the largest capital receipts of any privatisation programme: though none of the capital could be spent on replacing the council housing that was sold.
The right to buy in 1980 did not introduce the sale of council houses for the first time as discretionary powers enabling sale had always existed.
https://inlogov.com/2013/09/25/the-housing-acts-of-1980-a-watershed-in-housing-policy/#:~:text=It was also advantageous fiscally – delivering the,as discretionary powers enabling sale had always existed.
Although I do remember doing a few deals on what were considered the best two council estates in Swansea, where the customer bought their house for 20k.
In each case it would have been 50% off 40k.
Having had a quick look on Zoopla, these houses may be worth 220k today.
I dont remember what the rents were at the time, or what the mortgage repayments were.
The Government said very clearly at the time that the receipts would not be used to fund the building of new houses.
I can recall fairly regular debates on this topic.
That bit was stupid, and didnt make any sense.
The average purchaser is probably more likely to have 2 kids, than 4.
In the case of someone with 2 kids, they would be looking at 100k plus, when the parents pop their clogs.
Compare that to the kids of parents that didnt purchase their home.
Many of the deals I did at the time were oldies.
Some kids will have already inherited.
Some kids bought them jointly with parents that couldnt afford it on their own.
Some kids got involved, with their kids in mind.
The long and short of it is that this scheme has helped millions of people get on the housing ladder that would have struggled without it.
It was a no brainer for me, and a very easy pitch.
Compare the costs over 25 years on a mortgage, to maybe 50 years of rental, and what you have to show for it at the end.
Councils sold an asset now worth £220k for £20k.
The 100k-plus bit? Maybe. For those pensioners not sliding into debt thanks to the current massive increases. And who do not have to go in to a Care Home.
There is very little Council Housing stock left. I've said this before, but it bears repeating.
I live in Tendring. A deprived area-which is (of course) why it features heavily in the Matt Allwright show mentioned earlier.
Population-150,000. So-it would (if in Wales) be the 3rd largest place. Smaller than Swansea. But bigger than Newport.
Total number of 4+-bed Council Houses? 10.
There cannot be winners without losers.
It allowed us to calculate what was called a gross price.
The price list also included a quantity discount.
The quantity discount increased on a sliding scale depending on the order value.
We never delivered the gross price, the price we delivered was always the price that was net of the quantity discount.
We called this the list price.
So the potential customer was never aware that there was a gross price, they were only ever aware that there was a list price.
The only other discount on offer was the immediate order discount.
We always told people upfront about the immediate order discount, and explained that the list price would be valid for six months.
A customer that was able to place an order on the initial visit qualified for the immediate order discount.
So they had a choice they could receive a quote of the list price, and take up to 6 months to make their mind up, or take advantage of the immediate order discount.
To enable those that took advantage of the immediate order discount to also have some peace of mind, we offered in writing, a price guarantee.
In a nutshell it said that if the customer could find a cheaper quote from an alternative supplier that could install a product with similar benefits to ours (which were listed), within 12 months of ours being installed, then we would refund the difference in cost.
The way we explained the reason for the immediate order discount was as follows.
Our company employs 30 reps throughout South Wales.
We will all be out seeing someone tonight.
We sell on average one in three of our enquiries.
So every time the 30 of us go out, we will sell 10 orders.
The average order value is £2,000.
So we sell £20,000 worth of business per day.
Therefore if we have to go and see the same 30 people we are seeing tonight, tomorrow night, we lose £20,000 worth of business.
So if the people we see are able to make a decision on the initial visit, it saves the company money, part of which they are prepared to pass on to the customer.
People could place an order with me on the initial appointment, confident they werent getting ripped off, because of the price guarantee.
One of the difficulties we faced was that at least one of our customers will have been working, and on many occasions they were both working.
Therefore the appointments were usually in the early evening.
Due to the length of time the appointment took, you would usually only fit in one appointment per night.
We never got involved in Dutch Auctions.
We only ever quoted one price, with an immediate order discount option.
I spent 18 years in the double glazing industry, and during that time 2 people came back to me, and bought at the list price.
Absolutely stupid.
Just as examples:-
1. That is not a "discount" at the beginning
2. The "immediate order discount". Sure it existed. But it would have still been there on a 2nd visit-because exactly the same benefits to the Company would apply. Or are you saying that no salesman ever went back for a 2nd go
3. The "price guarantee". Remind me-exactly which company are going to send people round to offer discounts on windows that someone doesn't need? That "price guarantee" was just a sales gimmick
4. You are really saying there was no further reductions available? The last time I bought double glazing (20 years ago) I secured a discount of more than 50% on your supposed bottom price. Simply because I was playing 2 of the Big 3 at the time against one another. I must have done a good job-because the Company tried to pull out of the deal
5. If your Company never got involved in "Dutch Auctions", the reason was very simple-it had no intention of offering the best price
South Wales must have had customers that believed you if you told them "gullible" wasn't in the dictionary
I still live in it, so not available to anyone the years I've lived here.
I have sold stuff all over the UK, and abroad.
I have taught people to sell, all over the UK, and abroad.
I have also come into contact with many clever people that have come unstuck by not knowing as much as they thought they did.
it is not clear from what you have said, whether the deciding factor for you was the amount of discount, or the lowest price, and whether the quality of the window, or the reputation of the company figured at all.
I am not sure if you dont understand the reason for the immediate order discount, or just dont agree with it.
Lets say you are running a double glazing company.
You have 30 reps.
They work five evenings per week.
They sell one in three of their enquiries.
So they see 150 people per week between them.
Therefore 50 deals per week worth 100k.
So you have a marketing operation that geared up to produce 150 leads per week.
All hunky dory everyone doing their bit.
You then remove the immediate order discount.
Your reps start seeing people twice.
That means you only need 75 leads per week.
You halve your sales.
You are down to 25 deals per week and 50k.
You only need half the staff in the marketing office, so you lay off the rest.
You lay off half your fitting teams.
And half your factory staff.
Not necessarily a good idea.