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Sour grapes or a mistake?

StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,181
edited June 2022 in Sports & Betting Chat
Hi guys.

I had a bet where BAAEED needed to beat REAL WORLD by 2 lengths or more.

Here's the pic. The distance was recorded as a 1and 3/4 lengths. This looks like at least two to me, unless the tail is included. Have a measure and see what you think. Should the flailing tail make a difference. Wouldn't it be the distance of the winners head compared to the runner up's head.




Just had to get it of my chest. What do you guys think?
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Comments

  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,576

    Blimey, that's touch & go Graham.

    That's the problem with "exotic" markets, these sort of situations can often arise & there's no real way of proving your case. We see it a lot in football with, say, "Shots on Target", & the various OPTA based markets.

    I'm honestly not sure, but if I were in your shoes I'd feel the same as you do.
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  • thefallthefall Member Posts: 1,976
    Darn that tail very unlucky dude.
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  • rabdenirorabdeniro Member Posts: 4,430
    Distances are calculated on the elapsed time between each horse and then a scale known as the Lengths per Second Scale (Lps) is used dependent upon whether it is Flat or Jumps racing, the type of surface in use at the all-weather fixtures and the official going description issued on the day. The Scales used vary from four to five Lps for Jumps racing and from five to six Lps on the Flat. When the going description distinguishes between different parts of the course, the scale relating to the going in the straight is applied. The table for the Lengths per Second Scale (Lps) can be viewed here. For more details view our Guide to Handicapping.

    From the BHA, if that makes it any better Graham.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,771
    rabdeniro said:

    Distances are calculated on the elapsed time between each horse and then a scale known as the Lengths per Second Scale (Lps) is used dependent upon whether it is Flat or Jumps racing, the type of surface in use at the all-weather fixtures and the official going description issued on the day. The Scales used vary from four to five Lps for Jumps racing and from five to six Lps on the Flat. When the going description distinguishes between different parts of the course, the scale relating to the going in the straight is applied. The table for the Lengths per Second Scale (Lps) can be viewed here. For more details view our Guide to Handicapping.

    From the BHA, if that makes it any better Graham.

    I find this sort of thing absolutely fascinating. So-what are the deciding factors as to whether a horse won by more or less than 2 lengths? It could be:-

    1. Whether the 2nd place horse was finishing strongly or a tired, well-beaten horse; or
    2. Whether the going was (when between the 2) declared good, or good to soft? (Same will apply to any 2 combinations)

    But the 1 thing that will never be the key as to whether it is more than 2 lengths, would be

    3. Whether the distance was more or less than 2 lengths

    :)
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  • Tikay10Tikay10 Member, Administrator, Moderator Posts: 169,576

    Ouch.
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  • StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,181
    Essexphil said:

    rabdeniro said:

    Distances are calculated on the elapsed time between each horse and then a scale known as the Lengths per Second Scale (Lps) is used dependent upon whether it is Flat or Jumps racing, the type of surface in use at the all-weather fixtures and the official going description issued on the day. The Scales used vary from four to five Lps for Jumps racing and from five to six Lps on the Flat. When the going description distinguishes between different parts of the course, the scale relating to the going in the straight is applied. The table for the Lengths per Second Scale (Lps) can be viewed here. For more details view our Guide to Handicapping.

    From the BHA, if that makes it any better Graham.

    I find this sort of thing absolutely fascinating. So-what are the deciding factors as to whether a horse won by more or less than 2 lengths? It could be:-

    1. Whether the 2nd place horse was finishing strongly or a tired, well-beaten horse; or
    2. Whether the going was (when between the 2) declared good, or good to soft? (Same will apply to any 2 combinations)

    But the 1 thing that will never be the key as to whether it is more than 2 lengths, would be

    3. Whether the distance was more or less than 2 lengths

    :)
    Thanks for this @rabdeniro +1 to @Essexphil 's comments
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  • StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,181
    edited June 2022
    rabdeniro said:

    Distances are calculated on the elapsed time between each horse and then a scale known as the Lengths per Second Scale (Lps) is used dependent upon whether it is Flat or Jumps racing, the type of surface in use at the all-weather fixtures and the official going description issued on the day. The Scales used vary from four to five Lps for Jumps racing and from five to six Lps on the Flat. When the going description distinguishes between different parts of the course, the scale relating to the going in the straight is applied. The table for the Lengths per Second Scale (Lps) can be viewed here. For more details view our Guide to Handicapping.

    From the BHA, if that makes it any better Graham.

    Thanks @rabdeniro I checked out the website. Surely if there is a 2m4f flat race or a 5f dash the speed that they would be finishing at would be potentially very different, but this doesn't seem to cater for that.

    Useful to know the rules, even if it does seem totally wrong. I am guessing that they have to do it that way for some form of consistency/ease of processing.

    Good/Firm ground and a short race conspired to turn an easy 2 length win into 1 - 3/4 lengths.

    Normally wouldn't matter too much, except it can be crucial with these winning distance bets.
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  • StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,181
    Basically if they were finishing at about 40 mph, which they were, then the distance would be calculated as 1-3/4 lengths, but if 30 mph, then it would have been at least 2-1/2 lengths. hmm
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  • rabdenirorabdeniro Member Posts: 4,430
    Could they not just draw a line from the first part of the horse on the line then draw a line at it's backside or hind leg and measure the distance, then measure back to the nose of the second horse to work out the distance if that makes sense.
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  • EssexphilEssexphil Member Posts: 8,771
    rabdeniro said:

    Could they not just draw a line from the first part of the horse on the line then draw a line at it's backside or hind leg and measure the distance, then measure back to the nose of the second horse to work out the distance if that makes sense.

    I think that might be difficult, for all sorts of reasons. There would be all sorts of potential for cheating at the smaller meets.

    Surely the more obvious (and honest) way to do it would be to scrap "lengths" and just say what it really is-time.

    I know it sounds radical, but they could at least try offering bets that are accurate.
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  • StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,181
    edited June 2022
    MAXALLY said:

    I also got in touch with a contact in the BHA for you Graham. I inquired how is the length from 1st and 2nd calculated and can you show me some workings on paper.

    After an hour, he sent me this back which CLEARLY shows you the difference between 1st and 2nd. I hope this helps..............


    @Tikay10 @MAXALLY

    The words "Vegas bubble" seem to be floating around in my head.

    What were the E/W "flight to Vegas" terms, was it 4 or 5 places?

    Sorry Al, couldn't resist. B)










































    @GFKIJKLL 240000 1 £888 + £458.88 Head Prizes 5

    @StayOrGo 0 2 £528 + £305.60 Head Prizes 4

    B)

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  • MAXALLYMAXALLY Member Posts: 17,618
    LOL Graham....no need, no need at all.

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  • StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,181
    StayOrGo said:

    Hi guys.

    I had a bet where BAAEED needed to beat REAL WORLD by 2 lengths or more.

    Here's the pic. The distance was recorded as a 1and 3/4 lengths. This looks like at least two to me, unless the tail is included. Have a measure and see what you think. Should the flailing tail make a difference. Wouldn't it be the distance of the winners head compared to the runner up's head.




    Just had to get it of my chest. What do you guys think?



    Here is a 1 3/4 length victory above
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  • rabdenirorabdeniro Member Posts: 4,430
    Aye, you were robbed.
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  • MP33MP33 Member Posts: 6,300
    rabdeniro said:

    Could they not just draw a line from the first part of the horse on the line then draw a line at it's backside or hind leg and measure the distance, then measure back to the nose of the second horse to work out the distance if that makes sense.


    How about bringing in VAR for horse Racing :)
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  • misterpjmisterpj Member Posts: 3,302
    get it all back, with interest today son
    the best racehorse on the planet beats these unextended by 2 lengths, or OVER!
    7s on, handbrake Jimmy no messing today.
    The 2s On already shortened, now 4/9
    even money 2 lengths or more, keeping betting it until sky say 'full up'

    consider below, prices live 04.45 am
    For confidence to strap on ya punting boot
    Baaeed, scintillating in the Lockhinge (3& 1/4 officially)
    https://youtu.be/G1wnpLoUpMs



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  • StayOrGoStayOrGo Member Posts: 12,181
    1-3/4 lenghts again. ;)
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  • MISTY4MEMISTY4ME Member Posts: 6,317
    Looks like you need to keep backing BAAEED to win by 1+3/4 lengths :/:o
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