I think "usual party loyalties" are a thing of the past.
It is also important to remember that Brexit may have been hijacked by the Tory Right, but it had cross-party appeal. Traditional Labour areas tended to be the most pro Leave.
People want to talk about remedies in the broad sense. But won't vote for any Party that is honest about what that entails.
55% may want to turn back time. But-guess what? It's not possible. Your oldies point ignores the fact that, as people age, they tend to become more Right Wing and insular. The Retired often don't care about the future, or problems of people who still work.
The Tories could not row back on their current position without imploding. And Labour will do what is best for Labour.
The short answer to your question is likely never. The electorate will, as usual, vote for what they think will happen. And continue to totally ignore reality.
Let's not forget. We joined the EU before the public got a vote. There all sorts of unknowns about the cost of rejoining which, much like Brexit, people ignore. For example:-
1. Will we adopt the Euro? 2. Freedom of movement? 3. Schengen? 4. Agree to scale back our Armed Forces, and work towards Single European Army? 5. Continue to work towards European Union, as opposed to an Economic Community? 6. How confident are you that the EU want us back? We weren't exactly a model Member 7. Our power of Veto over various decisions will have gone
There was undoubtedly an economic cost to us Leaving.
But that is no reason to totally ignore the costs of us rejoining.
I think "usual party loyalties" are a thing of the past.
It is also important to remember that Brexit may have been hijacked by the Tory Right, but it had cross-party appeal. Traditional Labour areas tended to be the most pro Leave.
People want to talk about remedies in the broad sense. But won't vote for any Party that is honest about what that entails.
55% may want to turn back time. But-guess what? It's not possible. Your oldies point ignores the fact that, as people age, they tend to become more Right Wing and insular. The Retired often don't care about the future, or problems of people who still work.
The Tories could not row back on their current position without imploding. And Labour will do what is best for Labour.
The short answer to your question is likely never. The electorate will, as usual, vote for what they think will happen. And continue to totally ignore reality.
Let's not forget. We joined the EU before the public got a vote. There all sorts of unknowns about the cost of rejoining which, much like Brexit, people ignore. For example:-
1. Will we adopt the Euro? 2. Freedom of movement? 3. Schengen? 4. Agree to scale back our Armed Forces, and work towards Single European Army? 5. Continue to work towards European Union, as opposed to an Economic Community? 6. How confident are you that the EU want us back? We weren't exactly a model Member 7. Our power of Veto over various decisions will have gone
There was undoubtedly an economic cost to us Leaving.
But that is no reason to totally ignore the costs of us rejoining.
I suppose that Brexit cannot affect any party loyalties while the main two parties refuse to discuss it. Although my own view may be that we should re-join the EU. A short term solution to at least some of the problems that we currently have is clearly a closer relationship than we have now. I have no doubt they would allow us back in. I also have no doubt that the terms and conditions would nowhere near match what we had before. It would be massive advertising for the EU, if we had to go crawling back.
I just wonder when the benefits gained from a closer relationship become so overwhelming that one of the main two parties have to give in, and move towards it.
As far as the polling goes, it seems to have shown that the majority thinking that Brexit was a mistake has gradually grown since the referendum.
The Euro is a lead balloon. As is FOM to many, this is despite the fact that we now have more immigration than when FOM was in place.
As you say any move towards a closer relationship would implode the current Tory Party. Maybe if they get massacred in the next election, we might see a different Tory Party in the future. Or perhaps an in power Labour Party could negotiate a closer relationship.
I think "usual party loyalties" are a thing of the past.
It is also important to remember that Brexit may have been hijacked by the Tory Right, but it had cross-party appeal. Traditional Labour areas tended to be the most pro Leave.
People want to talk about remedies in the broad sense. But won't vote for any Party that is honest about what that entails.
55% may want to turn back time. But-guess what? It's not possible. Your oldies point ignores the fact that, as people age, they tend to become more Right Wing and insular. The Retired often don't care about the future, or problems of people who still work.
The Tories could not row back on their current position without imploding. And Labour will do what is best for Labour.
The short answer to your question is likely never. The electorate will, as usual, vote for what they think will happen. And continue to totally ignore reality.
Let's not forget. We joined the EU before the public got a vote. There all sorts of unknowns about the cost of rejoining which, much like Brexit, people ignore. For example:-
1. Will we adopt the Euro? 2. Freedom of movement? 3. Schengen? 4. Agree to scale back our Armed Forces, and work towards Single European Army? 5. Continue to work towards European Union, as opposed to an Economic Community? 6. How confident are you that the EU want us back? We weren't exactly a model Member 7. Our power of Veto over various decisions will have gone
There was undoubtedly an economic cost to us Leaving.
But that is no reason to totally ignore the costs of us rejoining.
Starmer is leading a slow march towards a softer Brexit — he just won’t say it out loud
I think "usual party loyalties" are a thing of the past.
It is also important to remember that Brexit may have been hijacked by the Tory Right, but it had cross-party appeal. Traditional Labour areas tended to be the most pro Leave.
People want to talk about remedies in the broad sense. But won't vote for any Party that is honest about what that entails.
55% may want to turn back time. But-guess what? It's not possible. Your oldies point ignores the fact that, as people age, they tend to become more Right Wing and insular. The Retired often don't care about the future, or problems of people who still work.
The Tories could not row back on their current position without imploding. And Labour will do what is best for Labour.
The short answer to your question is likely never. The electorate will, as usual, vote for what they think will happen. And continue to totally ignore reality.
Let's not forget. We joined the EU before the public got a vote. There all sorts of unknowns about the cost of rejoining which, much like Brexit, people ignore. For example:-
1. Will we adopt the Euro? 2. Freedom of movement? 3. Schengen? 4. Agree to scale back our Armed Forces, and work towards Single European Army? 5. Continue to work towards European Union, as opposed to an Economic Community? 6. How confident are you that the EU want us back? We weren't exactly a model Member 7. Our power of Veto over various decisions will have gone
There was undoubtedly an economic cost to us Leaving.
But that is no reason to totally ignore the costs of us rejoining.
David Miliband claims Brits have suffered from 'ill-informed delusions' since Brexit
1. "Big picture" economic freedoms, such as trade deals, are largely illusory. In reality, the best we can achieve is to mirror EU deals 2. We certainly do have very real economic freedoms as a result of Brexit. For example, we can have an immigration system tailored to our particular needs, rather than the off-the-peg, one size fits all EU variety. Unfortunately, what we do not possess is a Government with sufficient vision to actually get on and do such things 3. The supposed bonfire of EU regs is a prime example of where virtue signalling replaces real progress. The vast majority of EU Regs help our businesses. By all means target ones that may not-but to spend ages dismantling a system for no reason other than to appease the more extreme elements within the Tory Party is just stupid
Voices: When it comes to Brexit, Keir Starmer knows exactly what he’s doing
1. "Big picture" economic freedoms, such as trade deals, are largely illusory. In reality, the best we can achieve is to mirror EU deals 2. We certainly do have very real economic freedoms as a result of Brexit. For example, we can have an immigration system tailored to our particular needs, rather than the off-the-peg, one size fits all EU variety. Unfortunately, what we do not possess is a Government with sufficient vision to actually get on and do such things 3. The supposed bonfire of EU regs is a prime example of where virtue signalling replaces real progress. The vast majority of EU Regs help our businesses. By all means target ones that may not-but to spend ages dismantling a system for no reason other than to appease the more extreme elements within the Tory Party is just stupid
Keir Starmer tipped to U-turn on Brexit and campaign for rejoin in order to win election
I don't think that would be a good idea when they have a huge lead in the polls anyway. I know it's not the Election yet, but this is the main reason that the Tories won so many seats in the traditional labour heartlands. Why would you risk upsetting the voters who are likely to be coming back to you anyway?
I also noticed the other day that one of the Tory Cabinet (think it was Nadhim Zahawi on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday) was saying how the Govt. has to stop these 'Little Boats' coming to the UK
I don't think that would be a good idea when they have a huge lead in the polls anyway. I know it's not the Election yet, but this is the main reason that the Tories won so many seats in the traditional labour heartlands. Why would you risk upsetting the voters who are likely to be coming back to you anyway?
I also noticed the other day that one of the Tory Cabinet (think it was Nadhim Zahawi on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday) was saying how the Govt. has to stop these 'Little Boats' coming to the UK
Interesting
Exactly this.
Nothing to do with what Labour should be doing from an objective standpoint. But they are miles ahead in the polls-and that is before this Winter, which is going to be a nightmare for the Tories as well as the electorate.
Divisive policies are the preserve of people who are losing.
I don't think that would be a good idea when they have a huge lead in the polls anyway. I know it's not the Election yet, but this is the main reason that the Tories won so many seats in the traditional labour heartlands. Why would you risk upsetting the voters who are likely to be coming back to you anyway?
I also noticed the other day that one of the Tory Cabinet (think it was Nadhim Zahawi on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday) was saying how the Govt. has to stop these 'Little Boats' coming to the UK
Interesting
Exactly this.
Nothing to do with what Labour should be doing from an objective standpoint. But they are miles ahead in the polls-and that is before this Winter, which is going to be a nightmare for the Tories as well as the electorate.
Divisive policies are the preserve of people who are losing.
Although they have a big lead in the polls, it is likely to be two years before we get a general election. I am not sure that this is a solid lead. I wonder if it is more about the unpopularity of The Tories, rather than the popularity of Labour. The danger then becomes that The Tories are able to deal with the current problems prior to the election. If The Tories could sort out energy bills, interest rates, and inflation, what would the current Labour lead look like. I think Keir Starmer is reliable, honest, has integrity, and above all isnt Jeremy Corbyn. I wish he would do more interviews.
I dont think that Labour will want anything to do with Brexit in their manifesto for the next election. Although there has probably not been a better time to put together a compelling argument for rejoining. Those that try to justify Brexit, struggle badly.
It will be interesting to see how the strikes turn out, and how Labours relationship with the unions ends up.
I don't think that would be a good idea when they have a huge lead in the polls anyway. I know it's not the Election yet, but this is the main reason that the Tories won so many seats in the traditional labour heartlands. Why would you risk upsetting the voters who are likely to be coming back to you anyway?
I also noticed the other day that one of the Tory Cabinet (think it was Nadhim Zahawi on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday) was saying how the Govt. has to stop these 'Little Boats' coming to the UK
Interesting
Exactly this.
Nothing to do with what Labour should be doing from an objective standpoint. But they are miles ahead in the polls-and that is before this Winter, which is going to be a nightmare for the Tories as well as the electorate.
Divisive policies are the preserve of people who are losing.
Sunak slashes Starmer's lead in massive swing to Tories as Britons brace for strikes
I don't think that would be a good idea when they have a huge lead in the polls anyway. I know it's not the Election yet, but this is the main reason that the Tories won so many seats in the traditional labour heartlands. Why would you risk upsetting the voters who are likely to be coming back to you anyway?
I also noticed the other day that one of the Tory Cabinet (think it was Nadhim Zahawi on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday) was saying how the Govt. has to stop these 'Little Boats' coming to the UK
Interesting
Exactly this.
Nothing to do with what Labour should be doing from an objective standpoint. But they are miles ahead in the polls-and that is before this Winter, which is going to be a nightmare for the Tories as well as the electorate.
Divisive policies are the preserve of people who are losing.
Sunak slashes Starmer's lead in massive swing to Tories as Britons brace for strikes
Of course the Tories are doing better than earlier this year. Simply because Sunak is better than Truss. Their poll ratings have improved-from cataclysmic to merely awful.
At the last election-Tories 43.6%. Labour 32.2%. Now-Tories 31%. Labour 42%.
Which means that Labour would have the same sort of Majority that the Tories currently enjoy. Causing a swing of about 180 seats to Labour.
And that is before the chaos that this Winter will bring.
I don't think that would be a good idea when they have a huge lead in the polls anyway. I know it's not the Election yet, but this is the main reason that the Tories won so many seats in the traditional labour heartlands. Why would you risk upsetting the voters who are likely to be coming back to you anyway?
I also noticed the other day that one of the Tory Cabinet (think it was Nadhim Zahawi on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday) was saying how the Govt. has to stop these 'Little Boats' coming to the UK
Interesting
Exactly this.
Nothing to do with what Labour should be doing from an objective standpoint. But they are miles ahead in the polls-and that is before this Winter, which is going to be a nightmare for the Tories as well as the electorate.
Divisive policies are the preserve of people who are losing.
Starmer must tackle economic ‘disaster’ of Brexit, warn Labour grandees
I don't think that would be a good idea when they have a huge lead in the polls anyway. I know it's not the Election yet, but this is the main reason that the Tories won so many seats in the traditional labour heartlands. Why would you risk upsetting the voters who are likely to be coming back to you anyway?
I also noticed the other day that one of the Tory Cabinet (think it was Nadhim Zahawi on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday) was saying how the Govt. has to stop these 'Little Boats' coming to the UK
Interesting
Exactly this.
Nothing to do with what Labour should be doing from an objective standpoint. But they are miles ahead in the polls-and that is before this Winter, which is going to be a nightmare for the Tories as well as the electorate.
Divisive policies are the preserve of people who are losing.
Tories’ ‘misleading’ £800bn post-Brexit trade deals claim condemned by watchdog
Comments
It is also important to remember that Brexit may have been hijacked by the Tory Right, but it had cross-party appeal. Traditional Labour areas tended to be the most pro Leave.
People want to talk about remedies in the broad sense. But won't vote for any Party that is honest about what that entails.
55% may want to turn back time. But-guess what? It's not possible. Your oldies point ignores the fact that, as people age, they tend to become more Right Wing and insular. The Retired often don't care about the future, or problems of people who still work.
The Tories could not row back on their current position without imploding. And Labour will do what is best for Labour.
The short answer to your question is likely never. The electorate will, as usual, vote for what they think will happen. And continue to totally ignore reality.
Let's not forget. We joined the EU before the public got a vote. There all sorts of unknowns about the cost of rejoining which, much like Brexit, people ignore. For example:-
1. Will we adopt the Euro?
2. Freedom of movement?
3. Schengen?
4. Agree to scale back our Armed Forces, and work towards Single European Army?
5. Continue to work towards European Union, as opposed to an Economic Community?
6. How confident are you that the EU want us back? We weren't exactly a model Member
7. Our power of Veto over various decisions will have gone
There was undoubtedly an economic cost to us Leaving.
But that is no reason to totally ignore the costs of us rejoining.
Although my own view may be that we should re-join the EU.
A short term solution to at least some of the problems that we currently have is clearly a closer relationship than we have now.
I have no doubt they would allow us back in.
I also have no doubt that the terms and conditions would nowhere near match what we had before.
It would be massive advertising for the EU, if we had to go crawling back.
I just wonder when the benefits gained from a closer relationship become so overwhelming that one of the main two parties have to give in, and move towards it.
As far as the polling goes, it seems to have shown that the majority thinking that Brexit was a mistake has gradually grown since the referendum.
The Euro is a lead balloon.
As is FOM to many, this is despite the fact that we now have more immigration than when FOM was in place.
As you say any move towards a closer relationship would implode the current Tory Party.
Maybe if they get massacred in the next election, we might see a different Tory Party in the future.
Or perhaps an in power Labour Party could negotiate a closer relationship.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/starmer-is-leading-a-slow-march-towards-a-softer-brexit-he-just-won-t-say-it-out-loud/ar-AA14FZpt?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=8e4c93e0abec49fc95b74e2f08d85c4b
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/david-miliband-claims-brits-have-suffered-from-ill-informed-delusions-since-brexit/ar-AA14K7y6?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=d5a6030a6f3643aaa78cd2c4f687e73d
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/eu-gearing-up-to-retaliate-over-hated-brexit-deal-as-vdl-says-bloc-confident-of-solution/ar-AA14Muu4?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=186bdcaa1e1b4c68b530c57b4c9a4b57
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/voters-turn-against-current-brexit-deal-and-would-accept-eu-rules-for-better-trade-poll-says/ar-AA14PYrs?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=ebd353533916401c87a330d3f76ab224
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/editorpicks/voices-when-it-comes-to-brexit-keir-starmer-knows-exactly-what-he-s-doing/ar-AA14UGBI?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=3436c6d0043a4cecaaea02bd751adbd9
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/eu-ramps-up-moves-to-limit-financial-link-with-post-brexit-london/ar-AA150HMt?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4d52fc90d99d45349a5b884c7cfa95ba
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/the-i-podcast-are-leave-voters-changing-their-minds-on-brexit/ar-AA150EDo?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4d52fc90d99d45349a5b884c7cfa95ba
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/keir-starmer-tipped-to-u-turn-on-brexit-and-campaign-for-rejoin-in-order-to-win-election/ar-AA1515Fv?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=91916d828fe74634b50bba6fd6cc07ca
I also noticed the other day that one of the Tory Cabinet (think it was Nadhim Zahawi on Laura Kuenssberg on Sunday) was saying how the Govt. has to stop these 'Little Boats' coming to the UK
Interesting
Nothing to do with what Labour should be doing from an objective standpoint. But they are miles ahead in the polls-and that is before this Winter, which is going to be a nightmare for the Tories as well as the electorate.
Divisive policies are the preserve of people who are losing.
I am not sure that this is a solid lead.
I wonder if it is more about the unpopularity of The Tories, rather than the popularity of Labour.
The danger then becomes that The Tories are able to deal with the current problems prior to the election.
If The Tories could sort out energy bills, interest rates, and inflation, what would the current Labour lead look like.
I think Keir Starmer is reliable, honest, has integrity, and above all isnt Jeremy Corbyn.
I wish he would do more interviews.
I dont think that Labour will want anything to do with Brexit in their manifesto for the next election.
Although there has probably not been a better time to put together a compelling argument for rejoining.
Those that try to justify Brexit, struggle badly.
It will be interesting to see how the strikes turn out, and how Labours relationship with the unions ends up.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/sunak-slashes-starmer-s-lead-in-massive-swing-to-tories-as-britons-brace-for-strikes/ar-AA155gjf?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=4bf651923a674bb9959cdf34266353b4
Of course the Tories are doing better than earlier this year. Simply because Sunak is better than Truss. Their poll ratings have improved-from cataclysmic to merely awful.
At the last election-Tories 43.6%. Labour 32.2%.
Now-Tories 31%. Labour 42%.
Which means that Labour would have the same sort of Majority that the Tories currently enjoy. Causing a swing of about 180 seats to Labour.
And that is before the chaos that this Winter will bring.
Starmer must tackle economic ‘disaster’ of Brexit, warn Labour grandees
https://uk.yahoo.com/news/starmer-must-tackle-economic-disaster-060025364.html
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tories-misleading-800bn-post-brexit-trade-deals-claim-condemned-by-watchdog/ar-AA15b5zD?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=56b0f04f48ae4ea1a7d28cfb2f40dbc1