Heads up championship & poker Cartels

AnimalFarm

Hello all, I am new to Sky (came over from partypoker). I have been browsing the Lobby over the last week or so
and notice a cartel style system similar to other sites where a few players run the heads-up lobby. e.g., benc and duonross.
Now I don't blame them for owning that lobby and making easy money, but it can get tedious for people who can't grind that rake when they force you out of open sitting,
However, I have noticed there have been some interesting tournaments lately, like the UkOPs, and so was thinking couldn't SKY run a heads-up leader board or have a heads-up knockout style tournament's or why can't they run ukop style leaderboards on a monthly basis for mtts in general?
Not everyone has the time to grind and suffer the rake race but some sort of win ratio ranking would be fun.

Tikay10

@AnimalFarm

"However, I have noticed there have been some interesting tournaments lately, like the UkOPs, and so was thinking couldn't SKY run a heads-up leader board or have a heads-up knockout style tournament's or why can't they run ukop style leaderboards on a monthly basis for mtts in general?"


I'm not sure they could, or would. It might work for one month, but if it ran every month it loses it's effect & would not be financially viable.

I'll certainly pass it on though.

Hope you are enjoying Sky Poker, I noticed you won the £1k BH one night last week, nice one.

AnimalFarm

Tikay10 said:

@AnimalFarm

"However, I have noticed there have been some interesting tournaments lately, like the UkOPs, and so was thinking couldn't SKY run a heads-up leader board or have a heads-up knockout style tournament's or why can't they run ukop style leaderboards on a monthly basis for mtts in general?"


I'm not sure they could, or would. It might work for one month, but if it ran every month it loses it's effect & would not be financially viable.

I'll certainly pass it on though.

Hope you are enjoying Sky Poker, I noticed you won the £1k BH one night last week, nice one.

Yeah, I guess you are right it would become boring after a while. Which is why the UKOPS looks fun. A head up knockout mtt could still be cool though.,

I got lucky in that tournament haha I'm a big fish, but SKY seems fun so far. more home like.

Tikay10

@AnimalFarm

Yes, UKOPS is usually fun, & the site really comes alive. You just missed the last one, which ended November 6th, think you joined a week or so later.

AnimalFarm

Tikay10 said:

@AnimalFarm

Yes, UKOPS is usually fun, & the site really comes alive. You just missed the last one, which ended November 6th, think you joined a week or so later.

Tikay10 said:

@AnimalFarm

Yes, UKOPS is usually fun, & the site really comes alive. You just missed the last one, which ended November 6th, think you joined a week or so later.

ill join the xmas one haha if om not too merry

Bean81

People that sit the HU lobbies are a stain on the poker community.

coo1-um

A heads up tournament sounds like a good idea, though i am not sure that the software will be able to manage it.
Maybe when the new software is launched, i remember this been muted when i joined. That was 2009 mind.

benc

Bean81 said:

People that sit the HU lobbies are a stain on the poker community.

Care to elaborate on this view? would be happy to have a healthy debate on the matter..

As someone who worked from a small initial deposit at microstakes many years ago ( i had a diary on here i could show discussing my journey of playing £2.10 and £5 games) I've worked incredibly hard studied and battled my way through every stake playing hundreds of thousands of games and in my opinion very much earned the right to sit lobbys, playing thousands of games against regs in the process, on top of that when someone open sits a sng lobby they cannot refuse to play anyone, so anyone who complains about who is sitting the lobby is more than welcome to register and play that person and maybe instead of complaining put in the work to beat them, but time and again people come along and believe they're entitled to sit without putting in the graft or developing the skillset to do so, it's a bizarre mindset maybe indicative of an entitlement culture generally cultivated in society nowadays.

Kinda6677

100% agree benc. Not as if bean81 is a reg at hu sngs

Sky__James

You won't be surprised to hear we can't run heads up tournaments like you're accustomed to seeing on the big sites. We did run this promo a few years ago though https://www.skypoker.com/secure/poker/sky_lobby/poker-promotions/las-man-standing

chico383

Well said Benc. Although not playing at the same stakes as you, I have crafted somewhat of a winning strategy that's profitable for me at a cost of long nights and seemingly longer days afterwards whilst at work. Painful back and neck along the way.

Bean81

I don't know about HUSNG, but HU cash is in a bad way. I took a look just now and there are 30 tables at 100nl+ with only one person sat at every single table. All of them. There are zero tables with no players sat and zero players with two people sat. Regs won't play each other and won't let anybody else play.

I take the point about earning the right to keep the recs to yourself, but clearly that's not good for the ecology of the game and it's not good for Sky. I've had people ask to play me HU when we've been exchanging pots at 6-max and we can't play (even if I wanted to). Sky is missing out on some rake there, along with me not being able to play friends HU. I've also heard plenty of rich recs complain about online and how it's predatory and they won't play as a result - turning up to play and seeing a lobby with 30 tables and nobody battling is not a good look.

Honestly, I'm surprised HU cash is still a thing on Sky, when a number of sites killed it on reg tables years ago because of people holding lobbies and not playing at all. One fix is to reduce the number of tables people can open sit HU without action to two tables. Another is to make player names anonymous HU.

Sometimes we have to admit as regs that we're not good for the longevity of the games. I put myself in that category. I mass table 6-max and often clear out a rec's weekend deposit in next to no time, while taking my time to make decisions. I am definitely not good for the games.

benc

I thought you were referring to HUSNG as that was what Animals post was initially in reference too. You make some valid points in regards to HU cash lobbys however i do believe the site will still be making a reasonable amount of rake from them otherwise i think they'd of been cut already, the highest lobbys (10/20) were cut at hu cash a little while ago i think and as far as im aware a player can only sit two lobbys of each variant at each stake, however for example you might get a player sat two hunl and two potlimit so pretty much three or four elite players hold the lobbys higher at cash. I would argue the players sat them tables at higher stakes are willing to battle whoever sits reg or rec so i don't see how they could be referred to as a stain on the community though which was the initial point, they're merely making good use of the current system to make money from a skillset they're honed in a specific variant of the game.

Sites potentially are missing out on a small amount of rake from two people who might want to play each other heads up and some form of software that allowed two players to tick a box and a hu cash table to form would be a cool idea but i can't imagine being implemented anytime soon, it's valid frustration.

In husng cartels and divisions were created specifically to avoid the problem you refer to in lobbys, 10 people of ok ability sitting across all the lobbys because noone could be bothered to battle was awful for the economy, creating a hierarchical structure where the lowest skilled players are battled by the higher skilled players is a natural solution to that. 2-3 players who are the highest skilled earn the right by reg battling and if any of those players become too weak to hold the lobby they're targeted beaten and lose their place because as i said previously in a husng if you open sit you can't pick and choose who you play so you either hold your own or you lose your spot, which is a very fair system in my opinion and good for the game. Recreationals who want to avoid regs can always do so at microstakes for example most sng £5 and below and at hu cash on a friday night noone is currently so sat 30nl 20nl 10nl, to play meaningful stakes unfortunately for them its going to be competitive and a higher calibre of player, there is always a choice in poker noone is ever forced to sit a game.

Without regs alot of the games wouldn't run at all or even exist, yes longetivity of the games may potentially be affected by the ratio being skewed towards regs but my opinion is when that happens games continue to run and the weakest regs eventually lose leave and the cycle continues where good regs keep spots in games such as 6max cash and recs fill the rest of the table. Thats the nature of the game it's a competitive game with a large skill edge to be gained with hard work, i understand your point but i think it's just misguided to group a selection of players as a 'stain on the poker community'.

AnimalFarm

benc said:

I thought you were referring to HUSNG as that was what Animals post was initially in reference too. You make some valid points in regards to HU cash lobbys however i do believe the site will still be making a reasonable amount of rake from them otherwise i think they'd of been cut already, the highest lobbys (10/20) were cut at hu cash a little while ago i think and as far as im aware a player can only sit two lobbys of each variant at each stake, however for example you might get a player sat two hunl and two potlimit so pretty much three or four elite players hold the lobbys higher at cash. I would argue the players sat them tables at higher stakes are willing to battle whoever sits reg or rec so i don't see how they could be referred to as a stain on the community though which was the initial point, they're merely making good use of the current system to make money from a skillset they're honed in a specific variant of the game.

Sites potentially are missing out on a small amount of rake from two people who might want to play each other heads up and some form of software that allowed two players to tick a box and a hu cash table to form would be a cool idea but i can't imagine being implemented anytime soon, it's valid frustration.

In husng cartels and divisions were created specifically to avoid the problem you refer to in lobbys, 10 people of ok ability sitting across all the lobbys because noone could be bothered to battle was awful for the economy, creating a hierarchical structure where the lowest skilled players are battled by the higher skilled players is a natural solution to that. 2-3 players who are the highest skilled earn the right by reg battling and if any of those players become too weak to hold the lobby they're targeted beaten and lose their place because as i said previously in a husng if you open sit you can't pick and choose who you play so you either hold your own or you lose your spot, which is a very fair system in my opinion and good for the game. Recreationals who want to avoid regs can always do so at microstakes for example most sng £5 and below and at hu cash on a friday night noone is currently so sat 30nl 20nl 10nl, to play meaningful stakes unfortunately for them its going to be competitive and a higher calibre of player, there is always a choice in poker noone is ever forced to sit a game.

Without regs alot of the games wouldn't run at all or even exist, yes longetivity of the games may potentially be affected by the ratio being skewed towards regs but my opinion is when that happens games continue to run and the weakest regs eventually lose leave and the cycle continues where good regs keep spots in games such as 6max cash and recs fill the rest of the table. Thats the nature of the game it's a competitive game with a large skill edge to be gained with hard work, i understand your point but i think it's just misguided to group a selection of players as a 'stain on the poker community'.

to be clear i wasnt saying you are wrong i was just saying mtts would be fun for those not good enough to beat the big boys in a rake race