that hand you posted, being hyper critical of it, you can say the initial preflop raise is just not big enough, the villain limped, a x5 woulda been more appropriate imo.....
then on to the flop, you make a lovely bet imo......the call screams I have something tho......(we are hoping its only a spade draw, qt, q9 maybe some suited k2-9 typa hands.....thinking AK, KQ, KJs KTs JQs JTs type hands woulda opened for a raise not a limp)
the 8 turn, shoulda been a check from us to get some extra info.....if the villain checks back, we get a free card and the pot stays small enough that we will beable to check/call the river in most spots,
if they bet, we have big decision to make, 4s full, 4x8s, ks full, A8 all come to mind, but its most likely gonna be a call then reassess on river, unless they jam it in or something.
if he/she is a good player they are probably gonna check all their full houses back anyway, hoping we are drawing and hitting our flush on the river, and we know that they know this, so if we spike an ace, we can check it back slyly knowing they will bet for some value or even as a bluff a large chunk of the time, as it looks like we have given up and thats when we can get it all in......
if we hit a hypothetical flush in that spot, we check call mostly imo, if we brick like we did i think a check call with our 2 pair to a small bet is right, but be prepared to fold if they shove or bet for value a decent % of the time........
all imo, hope im not coming across as a ****, I dont really like telling ppl you shoulda done this or that, thats just how i think i would play that spot, it is always easier to monday night quarterback.
.......would love to hear how other ppl would play it....if the agree/disagree etc......
edit, just looked at that hand again, is it 2 clubs 1 spade or 2 spades 1 club....edit my reply spades/clubs how ever that is.....i need to get glasses or a bigger screen haha
the harsh critic in me says weak preflop play, calling was the mistake, shoulda been a 1400 raise or shove to take the chips, woulda put the doubt in the villains mind at least, unless he was a maniac, imo lotsa players would be willing to muck TT in that scenario......still a bad beat with the run off.....a check raise on the flop mighta looked much stronger, a check call until a spade hits, then a jam mighta looked stronger as well, but ive been working all day so my mind is not on it and chances are im bleathering sh ite.
the harsh critic in me says weak preflop play, calling was the mistake, shoulda been a 1400 raise or shove to take the chips, woulda put the doubt in the villains mind at least, unless he was a maniac, imo lotsa players would be willing to muck TT in that scenario......still a bad beat with the run off.....a check raise on the flop mighta looked much stronger, a check call until a spade hits, then a jam mighta looked stronger as well, but ive been working all day so my mind is not on it and chances are im bleathering sh ite.
Bear in mind that this was only the seventh hand in the Sunday Major with £110 buy in.
Bear in mind that this was only the seventh hand in the Sunday Major with £110 buy in
.
i think the fact thats a 110 buy in, the villain would be more likely to muck his TT, to a shove so early, esp on the raise, reraise shove action.......but who knows.......
I never expected a hand to be posted from such a high buy in, i thought these threads were for us low n micro players i thought you high rollers spent all your time studying solvers....
I figure if you are playing those sorta buy ins you clearly know what you are doing, and probly think my suggestions or plays are pretty poor/weak/average......
I am interested to know if you agree with my line of thought or think this boys sookin on tha crack pipe.
Bear in mind that this was only the seventh hand in the Sunday Major with £110 buy in
.
i think the fact thats a 110 buy in, the villain would be more likely to muck his TT, to a shove so early, esp on the raise, reraise shove action.......but who knows.......
I never expected a hand to be posted from such a high buy in, i thought these threads were for us low n micro players i thought you high rollers spent all your time studying solvers....
I figure if you are playing those sorta buy ins you clearly know what you are doing, and probly think my suggestions or plays are pretty poor/weak/average......
I am interested to know if you agree with my line of thought or think this boys sookin on tha crack pipe.
You don't want TT to fold though, so why shove pre?
I had one in the mini tonight 200 400, UTG calls, fold round to me in the BB , I look Down at 92off , UTG call can be either AA or nothing much, so I check. Flop is 952 two diamonds, I have two pair and am hoping he has AA , so I check, he bets 400 I raise to 1200 he shoves with the mighty 53off one diamond. I’m in heaven until it goes runner runner diamond. Instead of having nearly 30k I’m left with not much but a side ache from laughing so hard. I’ve seen it online, I’ve seen similar live, I’ve been the beneficiary and tonight I was the loser. Gotta love this game
Bear in mind that this was only the seventh hand in the Sunday Major with £110 buy in
.
You don't want TT to fold though, so why shove pre?
good point to make, finding the words to describe the thoughts in my brain is tough but I will give it a go;
I think we do want the TT or another random hand to fold in that spot, getting aces early in a game looks all pretty, but the implied odds for everyone early are too big and make aces vuneralbe esp against multiple opponents, which is what happened in that hand.
imo; there are enough chips out there due to the raise and reraise, to make it worth while just picking them up......so raising 4x the bet or shoving might make the villains fold or as you alluded to, ideally make at least one of them fold, strengthening our chance of a win......cause just calling seen 2 villains on the flop and our aces are losing a lot more v 2 opponents.
I guess i just believe it is better to win the small pot and wait on another spot where we can exploit the early large implied odds rather than be a victim of them.
fwiw, in that posted hand, the bet on the flop and the shove, maybe even the call preflop, maybe the "correct" or "right play" in the solvers, i dunno, but thats my train of thinking.
I had one in the mini tonight 200 400, UTG calls, fold round to me in the BB , I look Down at 92off , UTG call can be either AA or nothing much, so I check. Flop is 952 two diamonds, I have two pair and am hoping he has AA , so I check, he bets 400 I raise to 1200 he shoves with the mighty 53off one diamond. I’m in heaven until it goes runner runner diamond. Instead of having nearly 30k I’m left with not much but a side ache from laughing so hard. I’ve seen it online, I’ve seen similar live, I’ve been the beneficiary and tonight I was the loser. Gotta love this game
you describe the situation real good, actually lets you visualise it......you should write more poker stories
Bear in mind that this was only the seventh hand in the Sunday Major with £110 buy in
.
You don't want TT to fold though, so why shove pre?
good point to make, finding the words to describe the thoughts in my brain is tough but I will give it a go;
I think we do want the TT or another random hand to fold in that spot, getting aces early in a game looks all pretty, but the implied odds for everyone early are too big and make aces vuneralbe esp against multiple opponents, which is what happened in that hand.
imo; there are enough chips out there due to the raise and reraise, to make it worth while just picking them up......so raising 4x the bet or shoving might make the villains fold or as you alluded to, ideally make at least one of them fold, strengthening our chance of a win......cause just calling seen 2 villains on the flop and our aces are losing a lot more v 2 opponents.
I guess i just believe it is better to win the small pot and wait on another spot where we can exploit the early large implied odds rather than be a victim of them.
fwiw, in that posted hand, the bet on the flop and the shove, maybe even the call preflop, maybe the "correct" or "right play" in the solvers, i dunno, but thats my train of thinking.
We definitely don't want TT to fold. Why would we want a hand that we beat 80% of the time to fold? Ripping pre and having TT fold would be a disaster. Shoving to take down a small pot doesn't seem the best line here at all, we have aces.
@waller02 "We definitely don't want TT to fold. Why would we want a hand that we beat 80% of the time to fold? Ripping pre and having TT fold would be a disaster. Shoving to take down a small pot doesn't seem the best line here at all, we have aces. "
Yet in the posted hand, making those tens fold is the only way the hero was gonna win the hand, im sure we would all prefer to win a small pot rather than exit a tourney because we over valued top pair.
I do agree that a preflop shove is OTT, thats why I said raise 1400 first, doing that puts us in a much healthier position for future betting rounds imo, if the tens opt to call of course.
I genuinely believe we should be raising in that spot 100% of the time.....calling preflop was and is the worst action we could chose (apart from straight up folding haha), after all, like you said, we have aces!
In my experience slow playing or suffering from fancy play syndrome early in a tourney is just asking for trouble.
@waller02 "We definitely don't want TT to fold. Why would we want a hand that we beat 80% of the time to fold? Ripping pre and having TT fold would be a disaster. Shoving to take down a small pot doesn't seem the best line here at all, we have aces. "
Yet in the posted hand, making those tens fold is the only way the hero was gonna win the hand, im sure we would all prefer to win a small pot rather than exit a tourney because we over valued top pair.
I do agree that a preflop shove is OTT, thats why I said raise 1400 first, doing that puts us in a much healthier position for future betting rounds imo, if the tens opt to call of course.
I genuinely believe we should be raising in that spot 100% of the time.....calling preflop was and is the worst action we could chose (apart from straight up folding haha), after all, like you said, we have aces!
In my experience slow playing or suffering from fancy play syndrome early in a tourney is just asking for trouble.
I agree with raising pre But we never want 10s to fold and just take the chips.
I kind of understand what you’re saying but these are the spots we do want and this one just didn’t fall our way in the end
Comments
that hand you posted, being hyper critical of it, you can say the initial preflop raise is just not big enough, the villain limped, a x5 woulda been more appropriate imo.....
then on to the flop, you make a lovely bet imo......the call screams I have something tho......(we are hoping its only a spade draw, qt, q9 maybe some suited k2-9 typa hands.....thinking AK, KQ, KJs KTs JQs JTs type hands woulda opened for a raise not a limp)
the 8 turn, shoulda been a check from us to get some extra info.....if the villain checks back, we get a free card and the pot stays small enough that we will beable to check/call the river in most spots,
if they bet, we have big decision to make, 4s full, 4x8s, ks full, A8 all come to mind, but its most likely gonna be a call then reassess on river, unless they jam it in or something.
if he/she is a good player they are probably gonna check all their full houses back anyway, hoping we are drawing and hitting our flush on the river, and we know that they know this, so if we spike an ace, we can check it back slyly knowing they will bet for some value or even as a bluff a large chunk of the time, as it looks like we have given up and thats when we can get it all in......
if we hit a hypothetical flush in that spot, we check call mostly imo, if we brick like we did i think a check call with our 2 pair to a small bet is right, but be prepared to fold if they shove or bet for value a decent % of the time........
all imo, hope im not coming across as a ****, I dont really like telling ppl you shoulda done this or that, thats just how i think i would play that spot, it is always easier to monday night quarterback.
.......would love to hear how other ppl would play it....if the agree/disagree etc......
edit, just looked at that hand again, is it 2 clubs 1 spade or 2 spades 1 club....edit my reply spades/clubs how ever that is.....i need to get glasses or a bigger screen haha
Ha, gotta love the old perfect-perfect.
the harsh critic in me says weak preflop play, calling was the mistake, shoulda been a 1400 raise or shove to take the chips, woulda put the doubt in the villains mind at least, unless he was a maniac, imo lotsa players would be willing to muck TT in that scenario......still a bad beat with the run off.....a check raise on the flop mighta looked much stronger, a check call until a spade hits, then a jam mighta looked stronger as well, but ive been working all day so my mind is not on it and chances are im bleathering sh ite.
the harsh critic in me says weak preflop play, calling was the mistake, shoulda been a 1400 raise or shove to take the chips, woulda put the doubt in the villains mind at least, unless he was a maniac, imo lotsa players would be willing to muck TT in that scenario......still a bad beat with the run off.....a check raise on the flop mighta looked much stronger, a check call until a spade hits, then a jam mighta looked stronger as well, but ive been working all day so my mind is not on it and chances are im bleathering sh ite.
Bear in mind that this was only the seventh hand in the Sunday Major with £110 buy in.
i think the fact thats a 110 buy in, the villain would be more likely to muck his TT, to a shove so early, esp on the raise, reraise shove action.......but who knows.......
I never expected a hand to be posted from such a high buy in, i thought these threads were for us low n micro players
I figure if you are playing those sorta buy ins you clearly know what you are doing, and probly think my suggestions or plays are pretty poor/weak/average......
I am interested to know if you agree with my line of thought or think this boys sookin on tha crack pipe.
I never expected a hand to be posted from such a high buy in, i thought these threads were for us low n micro players
I figure if you are playing those sorta buy ins you clearly know what you are doing, and probly think my suggestions or plays are pretty poor/weak/average......
I am interested to know if you agree with my line of thought or think this boys sookin on tha crack pipe.
You don't want TT to fold though, so why shove pre?
I would try to keep pots small early in the game. However, when the guy raised quite a lot after the flop I knew I had him beat.
The All In was a no brainier either take the chips then a there or quickly double up.
Didn’t run my way as it happens but I was at least 95 to 5% in front.
Would I play it the same way again. Of course I would. That’s POKER.
200 400, UTG calls, fold round to me in the BB , I look Down at 92off , UTG call can be either AA or nothing much, so I check. Flop is 952 two diamonds, I have two pair and am hoping he has AA , so I check, he bets 400 I raise to 1200 he shoves with the mighty 53off one diamond. I’m in heaven until it goes runner runner diamond. Instead of having nearly 30k I’m left with not much but a side ache from laughing so hard. I’ve seen it online, I’ve seen similar live, I’ve been the beneficiary and tonight I was the loser.
Gotta love this game
good point to make, finding the words to describe the thoughts in my brain is tough but I will give it a go;
I think we do want the TT or another random hand to fold in that spot, getting aces early in a game looks all pretty, but the implied odds for everyone early are too big and make aces vuneralbe esp against multiple opponents, which is what happened in that hand.
imo;
there are enough chips out there due to the raise and reraise, to make it worth while just picking them up......so raising 4x the bet or shoving might make the villains fold or as you alluded to, ideally make at least one of them fold, strengthening our chance of a win......cause just calling seen 2 villains on the flop and our aces are losing a lot more v 2 opponents.
I guess i just believe it is better to win the small pot and wait on another spot where we can exploit the early large implied odds rather than be a victim of them.
fwiw, in that posted hand, the bet on the flop and the shove, maybe even the call preflop, maybe the "correct" or "right play" in the solvers, i dunno, but thats my train of thinking.
I think we do want the TT or another random hand to fold in that spot, getting aces early in a game looks all pretty, but the implied odds for everyone early are too big and make aces vuneralbe esp against multiple opponents, which is what happened in that hand.
imo;
there are enough chips out there due to the raise and reraise, to make it worth while just picking them up......so raising 4x the bet or shoving might make the villains fold or as you alluded to, ideally make at least one of them fold, strengthening our chance of a win......cause just calling seen 2 villains on the flop and our aces are losing a lot more v 2 opponents.
I guess i just believe it is better to win the small pot and wait on another spot where we can exploit the early large implied odds rather than be a victim of them.
fwiw, in that posted hand, the bet on the flop and the shove, maybe even the call preflop, maybe the "correct" or "right play" in the solvers, i dunno, but thats my train of thinking.
We definitely don't want TT to fold. Why would we want a hand that we beat 80% of the time to fold? Ripping pre and having TT fold would be a disaster. Shoving to take down a small pot doesn't seem the best line here at all, we have aces.
"We definitely don't want TT to fold. Why would we want a hand that we beat 80% of the time to fold? Ripping pre and having TT fold would be a disaster. Shoving to take down a small pot doesn't seem the best line here at all, we have aces. "
Yet in the posted hand, making those tens fold is the only way the hero was gonna win the hand, im sure we would all prefer to win a small pot rather than exit a tourney because we over valued top pair.
I do agree that a preflop shove is OTT, thats why I said raise 1400 first, doing that puts us in a much healthier position for future betting rounds imo, if the tens opt to call of course.
I genuinely believe we should be raising in that spot 100% of the time.....calling preflop was and is the worst action we could chose (apart from straight up folding haha), after all, like you said, we have aces!
In my experience slow playing or suffering from fancy play syndrome early in a tourney is just asking for trouble.
We also don't need to go broke for 250bb with aces on a number of boards when villain flats.
But we never want 10s to fold and just take the chips.
I kind of understand what you’re saying but these are the spots we do want and this one just didn’t fall our way in the end